Cherington a possibility?

[zchrz]

Dombroski is in as president of baseball ops with the Sox and Cherington is out after excusing himself from the organization, possibly by request.  Cherington has an interesting track record in his short tenure having won executive of the year for the 13' world series season but also having an overall record below .500 and with two last place finishes and a now incomplete season that most likely would have made it 3. 

 

His first year replacing Theo Epstine was the infamous fried chicken and beer season where Bobby Valentine was forced on him by ownership as a coach and thing went remarkably poorly.  The the world series year was helped by moves made under Cherington's leadership as he signed the likes of Koji Uehara, Stephen Drew, Shane Victornio ect after pulling off a massive salary dump moving expensive vets Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Josh Beckett (along with former twins piranha talisman Nick Punto) to the Dodgers.  The run was also bolstered by trading for Jake Peavy.  Fair note the return pieces returned haven't really amounted to anything aside the salary dump in hindsight. 

 

The 2 years after have been a struggle with the Sox signing more expensive vets like Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez, and notable trades of Jon Lester, Yoenis Cepedes as well as for Rick Porcello.  The rosters haven't meshed or preformed and Cherington became the next fall man.

 

It seems to me Cherington may have suffered from the major market approach Boston ownership wants to take forcing moves and rosters that are not necessarily the best idea for a team with a top 5 farm system, aging stars, and brighter days on the horizon.

 

Enter Twins world where Terry Ryan manages a top 5 farm system still cryogenically frozen in the offices of the Metrodome, only seeming to manage roster moves involving grizzled vets, safe bets minus upside, and scrap heap hopes at average at best players. 

 

I am of the opinion that TR needs to go and be replaced by a more modern, and most of all, outside the organization mind running things.  Ben Cherington offers a still young but experienced, in a major market sense as well, candidate that has seen some hard times and dysfunction as well as major success. 

 

I have no idea what kind of position he will be seeking, but if I were in charge of the Twins I would go hard after Cherington.  This should be a sought job at this point with mid to upper payroll capabilities, new ball park, and stacked farm system.      

[Badsmerf]

Why would you want a guy like him? What has he accomplished? He inherited a world series roster. Now they are terrible. I would pass.

[Mike Sixel]

Not even a little interested.

[d-mac]

Yes, please. Ryan is a god-awful GM. Anybody is an upgrade at this point. Except maybe Arizona's GM.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes, please. Ryan is a god-awful GM. Anybody is an upgrade at this point. Except maybe Arizona's GM.

That's not even a little bit true. I'd take Ryan's steady, albeit conservative, hand over many of the current GMs in baseball. Ryan is frustrating at times but at least he never seems to make a "are you %#€&ing kidding me?!?!?!" move and those can often destroy the long term ability to compete for short term mediocrity.

[Danchat]

 

That's not even a little bit true. I'd take Ryan's steady, albeit conservative, hand over many of the current GMs in baseball. Ryan is frustrating at times but at least he never seems to make a "are you %#€&ing kidding me?!?!?!" move and those can often destroy the long term ability to compete for short term mediocrity.

This. I wouldn't want San Diego's AJ Preller - he went all in and spent too much money and traded away a bundle of prospects for some older players, and everyone applauded him. Now he looks pretty dumb for making those moves.

 

I like a more conservative GM than an aggressive one. The Twins need to find a balance between the two.

[James]

 

That's not even a little bit true. I'd take Ryan's steady, albeit conservative, hand over many of the current GMs in baseball. Ryan is frustrating at times but at least he never seems to make a "are you %#€&ing kidding me?!?!?!" move and those can often destroy the long term ability to compete for short term mediocrity.

I couldn't agree more.  

 

Ruben Amaro Jr is another guy that I wouldn't want in charge of my team.  He's done alright getting rid of players this year, but he waited several years too long to do that, and signed some bad contracts.

[Bark's Lounge]

Not big on Cherington, but if Ryan retired again, I would take him over any of Ryan's underlings no questions asked.

[LimestoneBaggy]

If it was Cherington or Bill Smith, I'd take Cherington....except as to International Signees, then I take Bill Smith.

[d-mac]

 

That's not even a little bit true. I'd take Ryan's steady, albeit conservative, hand over many of the current GMs in baseball. Ryan is frustrating at times but at least he never seems to make a "are you %#€&ing kidding me?!?!?!" move and those can often destroy the long term ability to compete for short term mediocrity.

 

Ryan never went on a full-rebuild because the front office somehow thought 2011 an aberration and that they could compete for short term mediocrity in '12 and '13. Instead it was sorta half-assed rebuild that lacked a unified goal or process other than draft better (high draft picks help with that) and keep butts in the seats at the same time. We still ended up losing a ton of games and failed to take every opportunity to amass young talent.

 

Compare that to the Cubs and Astros. Relevant because they started their rebuilds around the same time and they whole-assed their rebuilds. They are significantly ahead of us in terms of young talent on the roster and I think that their outlooks have them contending for championships (that's the goal isn't it?). The Twins are merely going to be good-enough for the Al Central, yet again- an approach that resulted in a multitude of playoff losses in the past.

 

That is my biggest beef with Ryan- not his years spent refusing to modernize this team- likely a major contributing factor that caused us to fall in this predicament in the first place- but his half-assed rebuild. 

[d-mac]

 

Ruben Amaro Jr is another guy that I wouldn't want in charge of my team.  He's done alright getting rid of players this year, but he waited several years too long to do that, and signed some bad contracts.

 

Forgot about him. Ryan is definitely not that bad. Cherington may not be the best, but in my mind he's modern GM from outside the org with experience. I think that's a huge upgrade. 

[Loosey]

The Twins need someone with a real vision and a plan.  I don't know if Terry Ryan has that.  He has considered the Twins a playoff team since 2012.  He never sold out in the years he could have in 2012, 13 or 14.  This year when they really had a chance at the playoffs he sat on his hands and did nothing to improve the team because he doesn't have a plan.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

The Twins need someone with a real vision and a plan.  I don't know if Terry Ryan has that.  He has considered the Twins a playoff team since 2012.  He never sold out in the years he could have in 2012, 13 or 14.  This year when they really had a chance at the playoffs he sat on his hands and did nothing to improve the team because he doesn't have a plan.

 

And you know he doesn't have a plan...how?  Did you hack his work computer?  Did you break into 1 Twins Way and rummage through the file cabinets?  Did you get him drunk and tape record him?

 

I can't abide people who say things like "the FO doesn't have a plan, or doesn't want to win".  You can disagree, and disagree strongly with the moves or non-moves being made, but it's ludicrous to suggest TR is just throwing darts at player's pictures in his office.

[SwainZag]

 

Ryan never went on a full-rebuild because the front office somehow thought 2011 an aberration and that they could compete for short term mediocrity in '12 and '13. Instead it was sorta half-assed rebuild that lacked a unified goal or process other than draft better (high draft picks help with that) and keep butts in the seats at the same time. We still ended up losing a ton of games and failed to take every opportunity to amass young talent.

 

Compare that to the Cubs and Astros. Relevant because they started their rebuilds around the same time and they whole-assed their rebuilds. They are significantly ahead of us in terms of young talent on the roster and I think that their outlooks have them contending for championships (that's the goal isn't it?). The Twins are merely going to be good-enough for the Al Central, yet again- an approach that resulted in a multitude of playoff losses in the past.

 

That is my biggest beef with Ryan- not his years spent refusing to modernize this team- likely a major contributing factor that caused us to fall in this predicament in the first place- but his half-assed rebuild. 

 

Where did Ryan "fail" at every opportunity to amass young talent" during the 2012-2013 seasons?  I would like to hear something besides "well.....he failed to trade Willingham."  It's not like the Twins were chalked full of talent just waiting to be traded for a haul of players.

[Boom Boom]

TR's reign of terror will be over when he says it is... and at that point the torch will be passed to someone already employed by the Twins.

[SwainZag]

 

The Twins need someone with a real vision and a plan.  I don't know if Terry Ryan has that.  He has considered the Twins a playoff team since 2012.  He never sold out in the years he could have in 2012, 13 or 14.  This year when they really had a chance at the playoffs he sat on his hands and did nothing to improve the team because he doesn't have a plan.

Sitting on his hands this year at the deadline this year could just be not overreacting to a good May and sticking to a plan he has to compete in 16-17.  Saying he doesn't have a plan is just a straight speculative guess.   

[Loosey]

 

And you know he doesn't have a plan...how?  Did you hack his work computer?  Did you break into 1 Twins Way and rummage through the file cabinets?  Did you get him drunk and tape record him?

 

I can't abide people who say things like "the FO doesn't have a plan, or doesn't want to win".  You can disagree, and disagree strongly with the moves or non-moves being made, but it's ludicrous to suggest TR is just throwing darts at player's pictures in his office.

How about, I don't agree or like whatever his plan is.  And if he has a good one in my opinion his execution has been sub-par.

[Loosey]

 

Sitting on his hands this year at the deadline this year could just be not overreacting to a good May and sticking to a plan he has to compete in 16-17.  Saying he doesn't have a plan is just a straight speculative guess.   

I am not even talking about making big moves at the Trade Deadline.  The bullpen has been a house of cards all year long and he had to known that.  There were many internal options he could have made as well as picking up more than a Jepsen at the trade deadline while giving up nothing of substance.  The whole Trevor May starts one game, instead of bringing up Berrios and then handcuffing the the bullpen for a 4-5 days struck me as "not having a plan".  What did he think was going to happen?  He had better options to do better and chose not to.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

How about, I don't agree or like whatever his plan is.  And if he has a good one in my opinion his execution has been sub-par.

 

I have zero problem with that, as I too tend to disagree with much of what TR has done/not done this year.

[JustinCB]

Wonder if he'd do better in a market like Minnesota, where there's no demand to sign the type of sexy free agents that bombed in Boston, no budget for them in any case, and not even any expectation to win baseball games!

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I am not even talking about making big moves at the Trade Deadline.  The bullpen has been a house of cards all year long and he had to known that.  There were many internal options he could have made as well as picking up more than a Jepsen at the trade deadline while giving up nothing of substance.  The whole Trevor May starts one game, instead of bringing up Berrios and then handcuffing the the bullpen for a 4-5 days struck me as "not having a plan".  What did he think was going to happen?  He had better options to do better and chose not to.

 

I think his plan with the May spot start thing was "I still have a 7 man bullpen, so I should be fine".  People are making way too much out of that for the wrong reason.  The issue was never that May made a spot start and the Twins did a bullpen game, it's that the Twins have at least 2 guys in the pen that shouldn't be trusted for more than mop-up duty.  Blame TR for not having better pitchers in the bullpen, not for "only" having 7 guys besides May in the bullpen.

[zchrz]

 

Wonder if he'd do better in a market like Minnesota, where there's no demand to sign the type of sexy free agents that bombed in Boston, no budget for them in any case, and not even any expectation to win baseball games!

 

This is kinda where I am coming from, seems he had some things forced on him.  Received high praise on his way up to being gm as a scout and evaluator for the likes of Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, ect.   Given the reigns to a franchise not rabid for throwing money at aging former stars how would he do?

 

Seems he has had some successful mid range signings as well as trades including dumping the 275+ million of under preforming stars Crawford, Gonzalez, and Beckett.  Maybe big market gluttony has taught him some things while letting him amass free agent experience, whereas TR still to this day can only really claim Nolasco and Santana as forays into competitive free agency.  I think a GM that isn't afraid to sign or trade for some better players or even sell high on some vets would be a welcome addition.

[TheLeviathan]

No thanks.  But I'd love to have Jed Hoyer or Mike Girsch, to name just two options.

[nicksaviking]

I fail to see much difference in signing Nolasco, Santana and extending Hughes than in signing Sandoval, Rameriz and extending Porcello. 

 

I would have a little interest if I thought he was brining an analytical approach with him, but it almost looks like he has been working to undo Theo Epstein's shrine to Bill James that he built the previous decade.

 

At this point I'd look at anyone from an organization that has a history of being able to beat the Yankees.  Equipment managers included.

[James]

I think it's really hard to determine if some of the moves that Cherington made were all his idea, doing what owner John Henry told him to do, or some combination.  I get the sense that ownership had some involvement with some contracts, but he went along with it.  I think a good GM has to be able to talk ownership out of bad personnel decisions some times.  There might be some owners that no one could convince to change their minds.  Maybe John Henry is one of those guys.  

 

I do know that the Red Sox are considered to have a great farm system, and that Cherington also signed some bad contracts.  Cherington is also responsible for getting rid of some bad contracts that were on the books that were not his doing. 

 

I think he could end up being a good GM in the future.  I don't know if he is one now though.

[jimmer]

 

That's not even a little bit true. I'd take Ryan's steady, albeit conservative, hand over many of the current GMs in baseball. Ryan is frustrating at times but at least he never seems to make a "are you %#€&ing kidding me?!?!?!" move and those can often destroy the long term ability to compete for short term mediocrity.

well, in fairness, that would require him to make any kind of bold move, which he's never done. GMing not to fail isn't the way I like GMs to operate, myself.

[jimmer]

 

No thanks.  But I'd love to have Jed Hoyer or Mike Girsch, to name just two options.

this

[Twins7]

No thanks. But I'd love to have Jed Hoyer or Mike Girsch, to name just two options.

Who are these guys? Enlighten the uninformed; I don't really follow the FOs of other orgs enough, I'm curious.

[Twins7]

Ha! From hoyer's wiki page:

 

" In November 2003, he accompanied general manager Theo Epstein to Arizona to persuade pitcher Curt Schilling to accept a trade to the Red Sox, spending Thanksgiving at Schilling's home in what was eventually a successful effort."

 

Bet TR never put near that much personal touch into pursuing big free agents.

 

Not sure how we could steal the cubs gm away, though... Wouldn't that require some tampering?

[Twins7]

Girsch, though... Man that would be a good get. Cardinals are the franchise we ought to emulate. They really are impressive. Good pitcher development, excellent trading, just good roster management all around. Seems like they (and SF) have some sort of edge on this game, unless they've just been getting lucky.