The real problem with the Gardy Firing....

[DaveW]

After the press conference and everything that has occurred it seems fairly obvious to me what happened:

 

The Pohlads, upset that attendance is falling drastically decided to make/force a change. That change was having Ryan fire Gardy (this is after Ryan and the org had done nothing to support him in the past couple weeks/months about him coming back)

 

The scary thing here is that the Pohlads are so freaking out of touch with the fan base and baseball in general they seem to think THIS is what will bring the fans back to the seats. A manager will not put buts back in the ballpark, a winning team is what it will take.

 

Unless the Pohlads magically open up the wallet and allow payroll to get close to 110-115 million it will be apparent that it's just same s*** different day with this ownership group.

[drjim]

They have to start somewhere. Seemed like the logical first step.

[Squirrel]

I don't disagree that there wasn't some of that into the consideration ... ticket sales.  It's all about ticket sales and the money.  I work for an organization like that.  But I also don't think that after 4 losing seasons in a row that you can just stand pat and be okay on any level.  

[USAFChief]

...is that it is year (s) too late.

[Kwak]

The process requires taking STEP 1. 

[DaveW]

Step one was not cutting payroll several years ago

[CharacterGroove]

Plummeting ticket sales is actually a good reason to make a move, and particularly if you're complaining about the organization not spending enough money on talent.

[Pius Jefferson]

One big reason the organization was so out of touch was the former manager being out of touch. 

[DuluthFan]

While this firing alone won't bring fans back, it is a visible sign that that the ownership/front office is trying to address the situation. If no on field management changes are made and the front office cannot lure any top free agents to play here this offseason, they can at least sell the fact that changes were made to address the situation.

[Badsmerf]

To assume this is squarely on the Pohlad's shoulders is asinine. Why not fire Terry Ryan? He, after all, is the one keeping Gardy in charge, keeping the PR people, keeping the staff.. ect. Of course they could have decided it is all Gardy's fault, but I don't think they are that ignorant. Jim has been around baseball for a long time. 

 

At some point, change needs to be made. I think this is going to benefit both parties. Gardy didn't seem positive anymore. He seemed frustrated and exasperated. He's just a manager, he will find another job if he wants it, and plenty will be in line for this one.

[mnfireman]

Spending just to spend will not fix this team. Nolasco, Hughes, Gibson, Mays and Meyer should be the rotation, who loses a job if you go spend on a starting pitcher? Suzuki, Mauer and Dozier are pretty much givens in the IF, with Santana and Escobar fighting for SS and Plouffe holding for Sano until ???, who loses a job. Hicks became serviceable, Arcia needs to play, Schaefer looks to be more than able to be a fourth OF and Buxton is on his way. Vargas has DH covered. Pinto and Nunez round out the position players. The bullpen was overused but up until August was lights out.

The problem was thinking there wasn't a problem. Instead of 2015 being year four of the rebuild, it will be year two.

 

They should look at how the Cardinals and Rays develop young players, get them to the majors, use them in roles that they can succeed in, and let them walk when they get too expensive. And repeat.

[twinssouth]

I agree with everyone.  You have to start somewhere and that's the Manager, as they are graded on results

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

There is zero evidence that Gardy was able to relate to the young guys coming up especially the Latin American guys. Gardy acknowledged that the team needs to hear a new voice. So time to go.

[Brandon]

While this firing alone won't bring fans back, it is a visible sign that that the ownership/front office is trying to address the situation. If no on field management changes are made and the front office cannot lure any top free agents to play here this offseason, they can at least sell the fact that changes were made to address the situation.

Do or do not.  There is no try.....

[Craig Arko]

I doubt Mark DeRosa will be the next Twins manager.

[twinsnorth49]

The scary thing here is that the Pohlads are so freaking out of touch with the fan base and baseball in general they seem to think THIS is what will bring the fans back to the seats. A manager will not put buts back in the ballpark, a winning team is what it will take.

 

No, a manager will not put butts in the seats but he can contribute quite a bit in creating a winning team. It's definitely going to take more but I didn't hear anyone talking about how the job was done after tying the can to Gardy. 

 

We'll see what happens, they've already surprised most of us, it could get even more interesting.

[gil4]

I doubt Mark DeRosa will be the next Twins manager.

Hopefully he won't be the big off-season signing/new left fielder, either.

[Thrylos]

If Ryan is spending the payroll on the likes of Correia, Nolasco, Pelfrey, Capps, Kubel, Morales, Guerrier, Burton etc, the payroll is less of a problem than the one who spends it and how it is spent.  Check out the A's and the Rays' payrolls, if you don't believe me.

[Brandon]

If Gardehire were allowed to manage the next wave of winning were about to embark on then he likely would have been a HOF manager. 

[Riverbrian]

I haven't seen any evidence that the owners are forcing this move and I don't think anyone should assume that they are.

 

However... You are right... To get to the heart of any problem... You gotta go right to the top because they hire the people who hire the people.

 

From an outsider... My guess is that 4 90 loss seasons are forcing this move and even that could be wrong.

 

There is a possibility that the reason for this move is... Ummm.... nothing any of us have thought of.

 

Very few Managers last with a team as long as Gardy did. It's the nature of the beast and I'm sure everybody involved knows this.

[Old Twins Cap]

Accountability at last.  The buck has to stop somewhere.  Go ahead and research:  When was the last time a manager had four straight 90-loss seasons and a team brought him back in an effort to make it five?    This isn't a charity operation, and there should be no sacred cows.  An organization must have some level of accountability or no one will expect things to change or get better.

[ashbury]

I haven't seen any evidence that the owners are forcing this move and I don't think anyone should assume that they are.

 

I didn't watch the press conference but I think I saw a quote in a post afterward, that TR explained away his earlier comments in support of Gardy, in that "I have bosses".

[LaBombo]

Accountability at last.  The buck has to stop somewhere.  Go ahead and research:  When was the last time a manager had four straight 90-loss seasons and a team brought him back in an effort to make it five?   

Funny you should ask... (30 TD regulars roll eyes...)

 

2001.  Contraction backer Carl Pohlad brought back Gardy predecessor Tom Kelly, who had more WS rings than Gardy had ALDS series wins.  Before that, just after WWII  Philadelphia Athletics manager and future Hall of Famer Connie Mack was retained after 4 straight losing seasons by Athletics co-owner Connie Mack.  Only two times in the history of MLB.

[Guest]

Of the three previous managers to lose 90+ games four years in a row, one owned the team and won several World Series, one won two World Series and then managed one of the cheapest teams in the league, and one managed a team that had such little chance of winning and such a showman as an owner that they batted someone much shorter than Jose Altuve.  Gardy won one playoff series when he had a lineup with two MVP's, a Cy Young and the best closer in the league other than the greatest closer in history.  He then had a historic losing streak, similar to Casey Stengel with the Mets, which could become added to legends of people associated with the game who had great histories but then hit runs of futility, like Willie Mays.  It was time to go.

 

In his defense and contrary to his reputation, he did a great job with Danny Santana this year.  Anytime you need a CF and you move a rookie there, and the rookie plays well and hits great, without previous experience in the position, that's good player development.  Santana can move back to SS next year, if that is decided to be the right move, but moving him to CF this year appeared to take pressure off him, so that he could comfortably transition to the major leagues.

[LaBombo]

I didn't watch the press conference but I think I saw a quote in a post afterward, that TR explained away his earlier comments in support of Gardy, in that "I have bosses".

There was no question in my mind that his comment meant that it wasn't his call.  My only question was whether that revelation was agreed on ahead of time, or just an unplanned byproduct of what was an emotional parting of the ways.

[ashbury]

There was no question in my mind that his comment meant that it wasn't his call.  My only question was whether that revelation was agreed on ahead of time, or just an unplanned byproduct of what was an emotional parting of the ways.

Either way, it shows ownership took a direct role (note the plural in "bosses").  Whether that amounts to "forcing" it, as RB stated, is moot - but we know Ryan is deferential to his hierarchy, so a word once given is all it would take.

[Mike Sixel]

So Ryan didn't make this call? Evidence, IMO, he is not the right guy to complete a rebuild. I have zero confidence he can build a winner. He can build the minors, but there is no evidence He can finish.

[drjim]

So Ryan didn't make this call? Evidence, IMO, he is not the right guy to complete a rebuild. I have zero confidence he can build a winner. He can build the minors, but there is no evidence He can finish.

 

I don't know if this is related. At all.

 

Watching the press conference he basically said that he was firing his brother. Hard to imagine that is the type of decision anyone can make on their own. That, among other reasons, is why you have multiple people responsible for making big decisions like this.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

O

There was no question in my mind that his comment meant that it wasn't his call.  My only question was whether that revelation was agreed on ahead of time, or just an unplanned byproduct of what was an emotional parting of the ways.

everyone has bosses, and TR has more than just the Pohlads to report to. He reports to the fans who were growing more and more apathetic by the day. You can't make any assumptions as to what the impetus is for firing Gardy other than what was said, too many losses

[DaveW]

Spending just to spend will not fix this team. Nolasco, Hughes, Gibson, Mays and Meyer should be the rotation, who loses a job if you go spend on a starting pitcher? Suzuki, Mauer and Dozier are pretty much givens in the IF, with Santana and Escobar fighting for SS and Plouffe holding for Sano until ???, who loses a job. Hicks became serviceable, Arcia needs to play, Schaefer looks to be more than able to be a fourth OF and Buxton is on his way. Vargas has DH covered. Pinto and Nunez round out the position players. The bullpen was overused but up until August was lights out.

The problem was thinking there wasn't a problem. Instead of 2015 being year four of the rebuild, it will be year two.

 

They should look at how the Cardinals and Rays develop young players, get them to the majors, use them in roles that they can succeed in, and let them walk when they get too expensive. And repeat.

The problem with that rotation is that there is only one guy (Hughes) that projects to be anything close to a resembling a front end of the rotation type next year. Meyer and May? Jury is still out. Nolasco is a mid guy at best and Gibson looks like a 4 or possibly a 3. Sign a top end pitcher and figure out what to do with your mid to back end guys later.