Roster Sausage

[Craig Arko]

Yeah but...

 

We broke camp with Hicks as the starter (which was questionable after Hicks 2013). And Bartlett as the backup (which was just plain questionable). Shedding Presley which was questionable and we were fortunate that Fuld became available or else it's Clete Thomas ilk again.

 

Personally... I'm not looking for a backup or a backup to the backup... I'm looking for a starter.

 

I was driving down 1st street... I hit this huge pothole... The sound was loud... The car shook... I worried that I wrecked my car... A week later I was driving down the same street... Same pothole... I swerved to avoid it.

 

I'm looking for an indication that the powers that be... noticed... that Clete Thomas played 92 games in 2013.

 

I think the guy you want is in Fort Myers at the moment.

[TheLeviathan]

I think the guy you want is in Fort Myers at the moment.

 

Right, so just like potholes you have to wait a long time before the fix happens. In the meantime, intentionally hitting potholes isn't recommended.

[jokin]

Yeah but...

 

We broke camp with Hicks as the starter (which was questionable after Hicks 2013). And Bartlett as the backup (which was just plain questionable). Shedding Presley which was questionable and we were fortunate that Fuld became available or else it's Clete Thomas ilk again.

 

I'm looking for an indication that the powers that be... noticed... that Clete Thomas played 92 games in 2013.

 

Just "questionable"? Really? Taken as a whole, methinks these strange series of moves, or the lack thereof, show sufficient cause for the need of a Congressional investigation.

[jokin]

Right, so just like potholes you have to wait a long time before the fix happens. In the meantime, intentionally hitting potholes isn't recommended.

 

And especially since our current CF pothole situation looks more like this:

 

 

http://sinkholes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/cropped-171052_487763577554_649107554_6110014_2749211_o.jpg

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

At the moment the best record in baseball is held by the Brewers. Here is their 40-man:

 

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=mil

 

Anybody want to perform the same analysis of this?

 

Looking at this makes we want to look at all the 40-Man rosters to find one with bigger flaws than Minnesota's.

[Craig Arko]

Looking at this makes we want to look at all the 40-Man rosters to find one with bigger flaws than Minnesota's.

 

Go for it. Probably start with Houston.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Well. Don't know if we'd say these are "worse" but . . .

 

Boston has 5 catchers on the 40-man (only 2 on the 25) and some clown that can only DH.

 

The Blue Jays have 3 catchers on the 25, and only 3 OF on the 25 (makes sense that they wanted Mastro)

 

Tampa, of course is doing it all "wrong" - only 2 catchers on the 40 Man, and 6 OF on the 25 man roster...

 

The Angels only have 3 OF on the 25 man (and one of them is Raul Ibañez) due to injuries.

 

The Braves are carrying 3 catchers on their 25 man (and Doumit is one of them...), they also have had bad injury luck (4 pitchers on the 60 day DL)

 

The Padres are carrying 3 cacthers on their 25 man and only 4 infielders (Chase Headley is on the 15 day DL).

 

Houston's roster construction isn't terrible in theory, they have positional balance, it's just that with a few exceptions, the players aren't that good.

[tobi0040]

Well. Don't know if we'd say these are "worse" but . . .

 

Boston has 5 catchers on the 40-man (only 2 on the 25) and some clown that can only DH.

 

The Blue Jays have 3 catchers on the 25, and only 3 OF on the 25 (makes sense that they wanted Mastro)

 

Tampa, of course is doing it all "wrong" - only 2 catchers on the 40 Man, and 6 OF on the 25 man roster...

 

.

 

My personal opinion, the Rays handle their roster and lineup better than anyone. Primarily through platooning their OF, catcher, 2B, and DH (where they don't have good players). They were able to get these number out of guys that have been cast offs and are not making any money:

 

Sean Rodriguez (Utility) - .704 OPS

Jose Labaton (catcher with 311 PA last year) - .714 OPS

Matt Joyce - .747 OPS

David Dejesus - .741 OPS

Delmon Young - .781 OPS

Kelly Johnson - .715 OPS

Luke Scott - .748 OPS

 

So you are the Twins and you have a debacle at SS. Escrobar has a career OPS over .700 against lefties. Could we not find a single SS out there, a guy labeled as utility guy with a reasonable OPS against righties?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

The Rays definitely favor flexibility. Some teams would argue that players play better when they have a clearly defined role and a routine, but I think the Rays have shown with their recent sucesses that having lots of players that can play multiple positions instead of one utility guy at the end of the bench is an asset.

[Cris E]

The Twins are doing a bad job solving the problem at SS, but I do cut them some slack in cases where there's a prospect coming that makes it hard to sign a real player to a real deal. What CF wants to come here knowing that Buxton is bearing down on his position? And even if that guy wanted the job do you want to sign that contract? They chose to use the time to find out who Hicks is rather than invest in a damaged Upton or bring back Span or whatever other notions were floated. It wasn't a bad idea; the bad idea in CF was not having a plan in case you didn't like who Hicks turned out to be, or in case there was an injury.

[tobi0040]

The Twins are doing a bad job solving the problem at SS, but I do cut them some slack in cases where there's a prospect coming that makes it hard to sign a real player to a real deal. What CF wants to come here knowing that Buxton is bearing down on his position? And even if that guy wanted the job do you want to sign that contract? They chose to use the time to find out who Hicks is rather than invest in a damaged Upton or bring back Span or whatever other notions were floated. It wasn't a bad idea; the bad idea in CF was not having a plan in case you didn't like who Hicks turned out to be, or in case there was an injury.

 

True for CF, not for SS. They have questions about Danny Santana.

[nicksaviking]

Go for it. Probably start with Houston.

 

Houston has 7 players on their 40-man over 30-years-old. The Twins have 14. I prefer the Astros approach to rebuilding even if it means they lose 100 games instead of 90.

[Mike Sixel]

Wait until they add Grueyer! Then it will be 15 (and they tried to have Bartlett....16).

[Brock Beauchamp]

Houston has 7 players on their 40-man over 30-years-old. The Twins have 14. I prefer the Astros approach to rebuilding even if it means they lose 100 games instead of 90.

 

Tell that to Houston fans. The Astros have the following win totals over the past three years:

 

56, 55, 51.

 

They're easily the worst team in the AL again with only 10 wins in their first 31 games.

 

While I understand that rebuilds take a lot of time, it's going to be a long time before the Astros are relevant again. They've dug themselves into such a hole that it could be a decade before they emerge from it.

[tobi0040]

Tell that to Houston fans. The Astros have the following win totals over the past three years:

 

56, 55, 51.

 

They're easily the worst team in the AL again with only 10 wins in their first 31 games.

 

While I understand that rebuilds take a lot of time, it's going to be a long time before the Astros are relevant again. They've dug themselves into such a hole that it could be a decade before they emerge from it.

 

They do have 7 prospects in the top 100 and another 1-1 staring at them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They do have 7 prospects in the top 100 and another 1-1 staring at them.

 

Oh, their minor league system looks great. The problem is that they have virtually no talent on the current roster. Even if all seven prospects pan out, that's still less than 1/3rd of an MLB roster.

 

Basically, it's the Twins minus Mauer, Dozier, Plouffe, Hughes, Nolasco, and Perkins. A good place to start but the Astros need a lot more pieces to build a contender, not to mention that they need almost all their prospects to pan out to be good in the next 2-3 years.

 

Blowing up the team was the right move to make for the Astros. They needed to overhaul not only their on-field players but they needed to blow up the entire organization, scouting and front office included.

 

But if someone is frustrated by three consecutive 95 loss seasons by the Twins, they'd stop watching baseball if they lived in Houston and had to watch that team for the past 500 games.

[Mike Sixel]

Couldn't the Astros sign Nolasco and Hughes types? Don't the Twins need their propsects to pan out to be good again?

 

I don't think anyone is saying fans can't be both hopeful about the future (and complimentary about the rebuild approach), and frustrated with the present and the pace of improvement.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think anyone is saying fans can't be both hopeful about the future (and complimentary about the rebuild approach), and frustrated with the present and the pace of improvement.

 

I'm not arguing that at all, merely pointing out that blowing up the franchise a la the Astros adds more time to an already lengthy rebuild process. I find it very unlikely that the Astros build a winner before the Twins because the Twins had a few (albeit too few) quality players on the roster who look to contribute to the next winning team. The Astros don't have that, which makes an already tough job just that much tougher.

[nicksaviking]

Basically, it's the Twins minus Mauer, Dozier, Plouffe, Hughes, Nolasco, and Perkins. A good place to start but the Astros need a lot more pieces to build a contender, not to mention that they need almost all their prospects to pan out to be good in the next 2-3 years.

.

 

Dozier, Plouffe and Hughes are part of the under-30 crowd for the Twins. The Twins do have vets Mauer and Perkins who can still likely help during and after the rebuild, but they just can't seem to stay away from the post-rebuild vets. Suzuki, Doumit, Pelfrey, Willingham and Correia were (laughably) win now moves. The Astros did some of that, (Crain, Feldman, Bedard) but not nearly as much as the Twins, and most importantly, only Feldman was signed to multiple years.

[cmathewson]

We got a complete game out of Nolasco, can either Corriea or Darnell please make room for a third outfielder? Preferably one with wheels.

 

And who would that be? Wilson is barely a AA outfielder. The next guy in line is Kepler, who is not a center fielder, but he's playing there until Buxton comes back. The Red Wings have been using utility guys in center. The Rock Cats have been using a corner man (Ortiz).

[cmathewson]

Dozier, Plouffe and Hughes are part of the under-30 crowd for the Twins. The Twins do have vets Mauer and Perkins who can still likely help during and after the rebuild, but they just can't seem to stay away from the post-rebuild vets. Suzuki, Doumit, Pelfrey, Willingham and Correia were (laughably) win now moves. The Astros did some of that, (Crain, Feldman, Bedard) but not nearly as much as the Twins, and most importantly, only Feldman was signed to multiple years.

 

I wouldn't call those moves "win now". They are "be respectable until the kids develop" moves.

[DJL44]

What CF wants to come here knowing that Buxton is bearing down on his position?

 

Pretty much any journeyman veteran.

[Mike Sixel]

Pretty much any journeyman veteran.

 

Several of whom did sign with teams with top CF prospects, who were in AA or AAA.....and whose names were mentioned in one of these threads. Or, they could have signed a LF, who could play CF in an emergency. Heck, even having an actual CF in AAA would be nice.

[nicksaviking]

I wouldn't call those moves "win now". They are "be respectable until the kids develop" moves.

 

Those sound pretty similar to me. As much as I appreciate Suzuki's play, signing a starting C instead of a backup C who would only be expected to play 2x a week is or will hinder the opportunities for Pinto, Arcia, Parmelee and Herrmann regardless of how people feel about them.

 

Of course at the time of the signing, we all thought the Twins WERE signing a backup C.

[Rosterman]

Man, the whole centerfield discussion...hard to think that we have quickly gone thru Hunter, Gomez, Span and Revere in such a short space of time. More surprising, centerfield was for the taking by Benson (quite a buildup at one time by Ryan) and Mastro, opportunities many players would pray for. Both failed. And it is Hick's for keeping, but unless he ahs a huge turnaround, his big payday won't be as a Twin or any other team. You can have talent, or be the msot talented kid on the block, but it doesn't guarantee major league success.

[Rosterman]

Thr problem with Florimon is that he is a bench/utility guy, who should get the showcase if someone goes down, and can flip around amongst teams for a decade or so as a glove man with some speed and maybe the ability to move a runner as long as he doesn't bat more than 2-3 times a game or 150 times a season. Being a starter actually hurts him. He can't showcase any hitting skills on a regular basis. Even if he does have a 2 or 3 hit game, it barely offsets the many o-fers that he makes during the week. Unlike names like Casilla and Rivas and Guzman, who actually could produce (but had head issues, some say), Pedro just can't hit major league pitching.

[slash129]

Call up the Cardinals and see what they want for either Jay or Bourjos?

[ashbury]

But if someone is frustrated by three consecutive 95 loss seasons by the Twins, they'd stop watching baseball if they lived in Houston and had to watch that team for the past 500 games.

 

Would? They had a game on teevee last season with a literal 0.0 Nielsen rating.

 

http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2013/09/according-to-nielsen-nobody-watched-astros-indians-game-sunday/

 

/ because Nielsen only goes to one digit after the decimal and rounds beyond that

[Siehbiscuit]

I forgot about Benson! He wasn't quite as heralded as Hicks, but had he panned out as many thought he would he would be starting in CF right now (and last year) and Hicks could be figuring out AAA pitching. His star fell off a cliff rather quickly, unfortunately.

[Shane Wahl]

No Bernier and no Guerrier. I don't understand why either one is being considered.