What is Rocco Baldelli's Seniority Worth in the 2024 AL Central?

The three things with the Twins I don't like seeing:

1) Baldelli in the dugout

2) The hideous bar league softball M hats they brought out next year. 

3) The most strikeouts in major league history. 

#3 can be put on the manager and it wouldn't surprise me if he had a role in #2 as well.

What is Rocco Baldelli's Seniority Worth in the 2024 AL Central?

Zilch!

Don’t like the way he pulls out the 3’ diameter panic button in the playoffs and plays ineffective hunches that go against everything he’s done in the regular season. He played predominantly righty batters against righty pitchers, on a hunch, against Houston the last couple of games.

But during the regular season, he’d pull starters after one at bat if opposing teams switched from righty to southpaw in the third inning. He would burn through half of his bench and have zero options at the end of the game. I’m guessing that when batters are in the hole, they’re looking over their shoulders waiting for Baldelli to yank them.

Not much. The bigger point is how much is Rocco willing to utilize his manager’s judgment and intuition vs. what his history is, dogmatically following analytics when it comes to starting pitching. This year there was a slight deviation and he even let a starter complete nine innings once! That could be a fireable offense to this FO! I hope he shows a little more confidence in productive starters in 2024. 

Tigers are winning the Central!!

43 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

Not much. The bigger point is how much is Rocco willing to utilize his manager’s judgment and intuition vs. what his history is, dogmatically following analytics when it comes to starting pitching. This year there was a slight deviation and he even let a starter complete nine innings once! That could be a fireable offense to this FO! I hope he shows a little more confidence in productive starters in 2024. 

I think quite often Baldelli is playing his hunches when you think he's following the script from a spreadsheet.

Baldelli uses a modern strategy - "using the spreadsheet"

Baldelli acts like Tom Kelly - "playing a hunch"

I don't think that's the case. I think he's wired to be a modern manager. He came from Tampa with a philosophy that the front office agrees with.

I do think he has learned over the years and changed his approach. 2023 Rocco Baldelli is probably a better manager than 2020 Rocco.

59 minutes ago, Karbo said:

Hinch and the Tigers are the biggest threats IMO. Baldelli has to learn to trust his gut as much as the spread sheet. Both are tools that should be used.

Agree that Hinch is a better manager than Baldelli and Tito was also. 

I believe that his players really like him, and his strength is his relationship with his players... a big deal in the MLB. Long season and being together more than you are with your spouse. 

Unfortunately, his on the field managing is pretty poor. He mismanages his bullpen so bad it makes it hard to watch sometimes. Trying to get to cute and too far into the "metrics" vs playing traditional baseball has cost this team many a game. 

As stated hopefully he uses the metrics of as a tool more going forward and less as a robo-manager that he follows. 

Baldelli is not much of a manager.  Sure his players love him because he doesn't expect or demand much of them.  His in game management skills is also nearly non existent.  Analytics serve a purpose but Rocco relies on them way too much and many times ignores common sense.  His swing for the fences at all costs proved fatal in the playoffs.  Best manager in central now is Hinch with the Tigers.

Seniority within the division doesn't mean much because a) we overrate the impact of managers in baseball, b) seniority has a lot more to do with the talent level of the roster (bad teams churn managers, good teams tend to have more stability), and c) who cares if a manager has the most time in-division, when divisions mean less than they have?

Hinch is a good manager, but his involvement (or refusal to get involved) in the sign-stealing scam from the Astros is a black mark on his record and is going to come up in tandem with his world series championship, deservedly. He's been fine in Detroit, but hardly a world-beater...and a lot of that has to do with the deficiencies in the roster. They were decent last season and might be a real competitor this season, but we'll see. Their lineup still doesn't scare me, and we'll see if their pitching can hold up for a full season.

Having MLB experience as a manager likely makes some difference. You've hopefully established a bit of an identity, you're less surprised by anything, and there's hopefully a comfort levels that's been built. But time in division says a lot more about the club than the manager.

Baldelli is fine. He's never going to satisfy people that don't like modern analytics and theories of baseball (the constant mocking of "spreadsheets" and other nonsense shows that) and he's going to be the focus of that hatred at all times. But generally makes reasonable decisions, his lineup construction is fine, he handles his clubhouse well be all accounts, and there's really no evidence that players do anything other than play hard for him. He's aggressive about using his bench (YMMV on how good that is, but I don't hate it), and other than needing to have an 8th reliever on-hand even if they don't get used handles the bullpen fairly well. (I appreciate his willingness to deploy his best relievers to shut down the other team's best hitter late in a game regardless of whether it's the 7th, 8th or 9th, rather than always play a classic "closer")

Baldelli is alright... not sure there is a better option. Players like him and having a clubhouse that is united is a must. 

But there are things I cannot stand. There are so many BP decisions that are just wrong. You literally know he just blew the game with some of the changes he just made.

Leading off Gallo and Kepler, I mean really?

The K's have been brought up ... I get the allure of the big HR, however I love the old Gardenhire way, advancing runners into scoring position, especially to get an early lead or tacking on a late run. Something this team was pretty much incapable of during for long stretches last year... the bases loaded approach w/less than 2 outs was hard to phantom... it's like you could pull anyone off of the street and they would have been more effective. 

I brought up that, IMO, he lost something like 18 games last year... probably was a little high, but the refusal to advance runners, the lack of production with RISP and some questionable BP decisions were tough to watch. They were lucky to be playing in the AL Central, but at the end of the day they beat Toronto and played Houston tough.  I think Baldelli is a decent manager that hopefully gets the players he needs to keep them competitive. 

I didn't have my glasses on when I first read the title of this article...I thought it said "senility". 🤪

1 hour ago, hitterscount said:

at the end of the day they beat Toronto and played Houston tough.  I think Baldelli is a decent manager that hopefully gets the players he needs to keep them competitive. 

The Twins definitely had superior strategy in the Toronto series. Baldelli clearly out-managed Schneider. Houston figured out how to get to Sonny Gray and that was enough to beat the Twins.

He did yank his SP too early in the past, but last year our SP were near the top of the league in innings pitched.

Part of that problem in the past was that our SP sucked and the Bullpen was worse. Last we had better options and he used them well.

If you want more HR, fill the gaping hole in LF. Sign Gurriel! Please! If we can't trade for SP, then at least get Devin Williams so we have a deep bullpen that can pitch 3-4 innings a game.

6 hours ago, Karbo said:

Hinch and the Tigers are the biggest threats IMO. Baldelli has to learn to trust his gut as much as the spread sheet. Both are tools that should be used.

5 years of managing  , really 4 years , he didn't have to manage hard in 2019 when the players had career years ...

So in 4 years of managing  , it is presumed he and the FO  should have learned something along the way , but I haven't noticed hardly any changes to his or the FO's direction of managing a team ...

It's still boom or bust , I would like to also see something from the gut during games when it warrants it  ...

It would be nice to get the players to make more contact , strikeout less , what strikeouts annoy me are the ones that the batter takes for strike 3 , if it is close you swing , teach them that or fine a batter  that leaves the bat on their shoulders ...

They aren't doing there job if they don't make contact and strikes out , I'd rather they try and bunt with no one on base and give the other team an easy out  ...

Put the team in a position to win on a consistent bases day in and day out , very few long winning streaks , tomorrow's another day approach would feel better the next day if each game ended in a win ...

Twins record against the Tigers in 23 was 5-8 with the Tigers weak SP.They will win the Central if they stay healthy with the SP.

Only Ray Miller was as bad of a manager as Rocco.  Rocco might make even more headscratching, inept decisions. 

Three things save Rocco each year:

1. The upper management not willing to make changes

2. Minnesota's overall OK-ness with mediocre baseball (low expectations)

3. Playing in the lowly Central Division 

Watching him in post game interviews gives me a rash.

On 12/16/2023 at 6:06 PM, David Maro said:

Twins record against the Tigers in 23 was 5-8 with the Tigers weak SP.They will win the Central if they stay healthy with the SP.

I'll take that bet. Unless the motor city kitties add a significant piece or two to their lineup they're still also-rans. They might pass Cleveland (who are cutting payroll too and lost an excellent manager), and will probably be a little bit better, but their top prospects haven't really developed and that lineup scares me not. Their record against the Twins last season doesn't mean much; that's just noise in the context of a 162 game season.

Rocco is facing an audience that: 1) doesn't want him to use analytics, or 2) wants him to use it. It's unlikely both sides are content.

He has a well oiled clubhouse. He effectively platoons and pinch hits when situations arise. No player is relagated to the end of the bench, everyone gets in every 2 or 3 games. No player is overused and runs out of gas for the playoffs. He is consistent in his platooning and pinch hitting so players can anticipate being needed. He fulfills the FO philosophy. And he adjusts to his players, such as keeping starters in longer when he has a good staff and steals bases when he has guys that can run. Oh, and I love his use of the safety squeeze.

It's becoming clear that no matter what Baldelli does some narratives will not die. 

That was a fun season and we are poised for more success. Top to bottom this organization is leaps and bounds ahead of where they were in 2016. 

My 2¢

Baldelli has improved as he has gained experience.

Baldelli has shown he adapts well to the different strengths of his players (the safety squeezes were quite fun, eh?).