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    Sale of the Minnesota Twins Franchise Reportedly Trending Toward Completion


    Nick Nelson

    The process appears to be moving faster than expected, with a recent report suggesting that new ownership could be in place by the start of the 2025 season, now less than three months away.

    For Twins fans, this seems like great news.

    Image courtesy of Mark J. Rebilas-Imagn Images

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    When the revelation surfaced last October that the Pohlad family was actively exploring a sale of the Minnesota Twins franchise they've owned for over 40 years, it came as music to the ears of frustrated fans. But the news also came with a caveat: don't expect things to necessarily move quickly. Historically the high-stakes process of selling a pro sports team has often been slow and methodical, stretching out over multiple years and in many cases failing to come to fruition.

    In the case of the Twins, there were an added number of complications at play, ranging from the attractiveness of the market to the morale of the fanbase to future uncertainty around TV revenue. In spite of these factors, it sounds like momentum is building toward completion of a sale in the near future.

    Dan Hayes of The Athletic reported earlier this week, via industry sources, that the club has a "robust market" and that there's a belief the Twins could be sold by Opening Day. That date falls on March 27th — exactly 11 weeks from now. It's still a decent length of time but it's quicker than most anticipated and suggests that there is little doubt a deal will be reached resulting in a Pohlad family exit.

    "MLB has already begun to vet potential owners," writes Hayes, "and will take a deeper look at stronger candidates as the transaction nears a close."

    In December, reports emerged that Suns minority owner Justin Ishbia was among those interested in buying the Twins, with his fellow billionaire brother Mat likely factoring into an ownership group. Presumably Ishbia is among the finalists whose legitimate interest and capability is helping fuel confidence in a somewhat imminent conclusion to this saga. Based on the limited information we have, he would have to be considered the favorite. 

    "The industry source briefed on their plans said the Ishbia brothers are very interested in purchasing the Twins and have held several meetings with local leaders," Hayes shared in his latest. When the Ishbia rumors began to gain steam, our Tom Froemming shared his thoughts about what such an ownership transition might mean for the franchise and its fans:

    For Twins fans, it's hard to feel anything but immense optimism about this developing story. The franchise has fallen into a major rut since the high point we all experienced in 2023; there has not been one single particularly significant addition or exciting move made since the postseason exit as the front office has been directed the shed payroll and lay low. 

    The dampened fan morale has been reflected in just about every indicator across the board. Attendance was down last year, viewership was down, and in 2024 Twins Daily experienced a year-over-year drop in traffic for the first time in its history. People are checked out, and they need a reason to check back in. A change in ownership could provide exactly that. Given the seemingly active and aggressive buyer market, it's hard to believe a new regime would not come in looking to shake things up with a positive statement and increased payroll investment.

    Hayes reports that his source "believes it will be a complete sale of the Twins with an immediate takeover in control," unlike the prolonged three-stage process that was planned for the neighboring Timberwolves (which is now in doubt). 

    While it's probably too late to hope for a major change in the spending outlook for the 2025 season, and the kind of late-breaking impact additions that could entail this offseason, a sale being completed by the end of March would set the stage for a near-term shift in spending philosophy, perhaps with flexibility to add salary during the season (which they clearly lacked last year), and certainly beyond.

    What are your reactions to this report and the potential for a changing of the guard before the regular season gets underway? Let's hear your thoughts in the comments.

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    30 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

    I am overjoyed! There shouldn't be any doubt that the Ishbia bros. are the ones. If there are others the bros. are looking for local minority partners to keep it local. The original 2.2 billion estimate for the Twins difference from the actual 2.7 billion that the Pohlads will receive to avoid complications, is half a billion dollars. Pohlads paid $44M for the Twins, that's less than what some MLB players get per year now. That's well over $2B profit, don't you think the Pohlads could afford to forego any overbudget cost they constituted (maybe $10M)? Let's stop the "we have to trade a Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Castro or Vazquez" talk. Let the bros decide how to run the team.

    BTW, who'll be responsible for this year's salary? Isn't it the bros?

    The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

    Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

    I am overjoyed! There shouldn't be any doubt that the Ishbia bros. are the ones. If there are others the bros. are looking for local minority partners to keep it local. The original 2.2 billion estimate for the Twins difference from the actual 2.7 billion that the Pohlads will receive to avoid complications, is half a billion dollars. Pohlads paid $44M for the Twins, that's less than what some MLB players get per year now. That's well over $2B profit, don't you think the Pohlads could afford to forego any overbudget cost they constituted (maybe $10M)? Let's stop the "we have to trade a Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Castro or Vazquez" talk. Let the bros decide how to run the team.

    BTW, who'll be responsible for this year's salary? Isn't it the bros?

    $2.2 B?

    $2.7 B??

     

    Try ~$1.5 

    12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

      

     


    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. 

    Indirectly they do control the roster, keeping it minor league, by hiding their purse.

    25 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

    The excitement and return of the fan base won't happen until we get new owners. We've been dealing with a glorified minor league team for years with the Pohlads. Simple, people are finding other things to do, and other things to spend their money on. Little or no effort from the owners equals little or no dedication from the fans. Myself included. 

    Glorified minor league teams have records like the White Sox  and are not competitive.   I too would like to see more investment in the team, however, calling it a glorified minor league team is a little over the top.  
     

    More investment will definitely increase the potential for success, but it’s certainly no guarantee.  Ask the Angels.  You’ve got to invest it wisely.  

    I'm definitely in the "can't happen soon enough" camp. I'm tired of the Pohlads as owners: for the most part they don't really care about baseball all that much, and while it might be a family business, for the most part the family haven't been all that active in running the club. (for the most part that's probably been good (having fewer nepotism hires), but it also means they're not as invested in its success) 

    While they're not the worst owners around, they also haven't been particularly good. They were successful in leveraging a new stadium out of the public coffers, and while it's a great stadium and certainly improves the viewing experience over the Dome (which simply sucked for baseball outside of the noise for playoff games), ownership received more benefit from that than anyone. It's been more than 30 years since we won a title, and our playoff record since '91 became a national punchline. From a business standpoint they haven't exactly set the world on fire with expanding the fanbase, developing new revenue streams, and have failed repeatedly when it comes to the media side (botching an attempt to create their own channel, mishandling radio, staying behind the 8-ball on streaming, and fiddling while the RSNs burned just to name a few). In terms of popularity, they're behind the Vikings, Wild, and Wolves. The best thing that can be said about the Pohlad regime is that they didn't embarrass themselves in public (at least not after the contraction debacle), and while that puts them ahead of some, it's still thin gruel.

    They have been so cheap that getting up to a middle of the pack payroll felt like a gift from the heavens, which is pretty awful. Their unwillingness to spend when the club was well positioned to contend in 2024 puts them back in the rotten class.

    the next owners may turn out to be sleazebags, con artists, or incompetent...but the odds are pretty good they won't actually be worse than the Pohlads, who will leave with a legacy of "cheap, but not actively evil". Low bar to clear, IMHO.

    I'm betting the Ishbias have the inside track for a couple of reasons: 1) they've already been vetted by the NBA, so the skeletons have already been cleared out of the closets, 2) there's no question that they have real money (as opposed to what's been going on with the Wolves), and 3) Justin is known to actually love baseball. Maybe there's another huge money candidate or three out there that we're not hearing about, but this fits the profile of what MLB wants: exceptionally rich owners that aren't going to see the team as an asset to be flipped in 5 years.

    regardless, I'm willing to take a chance on new ownership rather than endure more of the same from the Pohlads, who simply don't care enough about the Twins as anything other than an asset to have them improve on the field, and have failed from a business perspective in pretty much every way except getting the public to build a stadium for them.

    3 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

    Indirectly they do control the roster, keeping it minor league, by hiding their purse.

    They're projected to have the 17th highest payroll in MLB right now with the highest payroll in the AL Central. They signed off on 5 big contracts over the past few years (Donaldson, Buxton, Correa 1, Correa 2, Lopez). They were willing to blow their budget up in 2022 to sign and 2023 to bring back Correa.

    25 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

      

    The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

    Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    Ahhh.  The wonders of compound interest!  
    I shed no tears for the Pohlads, but you are right, big time investments generate those kinds of returns.  If they didn’t, no one would want to buy the teams.   

    31 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

    $2.2 B?

    $2.7 B??

     

    Try ~$1.5 

    Yes, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up. I was only a billion off. That's what I originally thought & then I double-checked & I read it wrong. Still a lot of money.

    1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

    I’m not sure I’ve seen an estimate of more than $2 billion for the Twins, but regardless, I do agree with your last point.  Perhaps the imminence of a sale has offset the urgency of shedding salary or trying to stick with a $130 million payroll.  Don’t misunderstand, I still don’t think they will add a bunch, but maybe there is a bit more of a chance that the status quo will remain for the payroll situation.  Maybe that’s part of the reason there hasn’t been a good old fashioned salary dump.  

    I double-checked my #s & read it wrong. I was only a billion off. :)

    6 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

    I double-checked my #s & read it wrong. I was only a billion off. :)

    A billion here and a billion there. . . Pretty soon you’re talking real money!  😂

    1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

     Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    If they invested that $44M in a bunch of poor businesses they would have lost money. I never said the Pohlads do the negotiations, but don't you think they have a say in their own business?

    The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either.

    How absurd!

    1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

      

    The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

    Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    Yes, you are right the Pohlads could have made better investments i terms of return on investment than owning the Twins. But damn making over a billion dollars is not a sharp stick in the eye.

     

    48 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

      

    The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

    Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    You need to redo this. Carl paid $5M down in 1984. The terms of sale required an additional $5M per year over the next 4 years and then a ballon for the remainder of $7M. The Griffiths received $32M by 1989. That arrangement was after Carl had wanted to pay over 20 years and Calvin said, "I'll be dead." Carl paid $11.5 for the minority shares from Gabriel Murphy, which was financed. 

    An investment of $5M in AAPL in November of 1984 still returns a crapload of money. Carl probably wishes he had done that instead.

    2 hours ago, Mark G said:

    I can't help but be a little apprehensive about out of town buyers swooping in and picking up the franchise.  What guarantee do we have that they will keep the team here?  Not saying it will happen in my lifetime, but it does give me pause.  I was hoping for some home town folks to come to the ball (pun intended).

    I, for one, will stay tuned to this channel.

    Again with this bad take.  They have a lease with Target Field for starters that runs at least 2039 so that's the first problem in moving the team.  The second problem is where, exactly, do people who make this statement think this new location would be?  Don't you think the Miami Marlins or Arizona D'Backs or Oakland A's would already be there?

    It's amazing that people think that someone just buys a team and then moves it somewhere completely different the next year like this is "Major League" or something.  

    1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

      

    The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

    Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

    Year Inflation Twins S&P 500 S&P 500 Apple Computer
      3.04% 8.99% 9.16% 11.62% 20.60%
          no divs reinvest div  
    1984 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000 44,000,000
    1985 45,337,600 47,955,600 48,030,400 49,112,800 53,064,000
    1986 46,715,863 52,266,808 52,429,985 54,819,707 63,995,184
    1987 48,136,025 56,965,595 57,232,571 61,189,757 77,178,192
    1988 49,599,360 62,086,801 62,475,075 68,300,007 93,076,899
    1989 51,107,181 67,668,405 68,197,792 76,236,468 112,250,741
    1990 52,660,839 73,751,795 74,444,709 85,095,146 135,374,393
    1991 54,261,729 80,382,081 81,263,845 94,983,201 163,261,518
    1992 55,911,285 87,608,430 88,707,613 106,020,250 196,893,391
    1993 57,610,988 95,484,428 96,833,230 118,339,802 237,453,430
    1994 59,362,363 104,068,478 105,703,154 132,090,888 286,368,836
    1995 61,166,978 113,424,234 115,385,563 147,439,849 345,360,816
    1996 63,026,454 123,621,073 125,954,881 164,572,359 416,505,145
    1997 64,942,459 134,734,607 137,492,348 183,695,667 502,305,204
    1998 66,916,709 146,847,248 150,086,647 205,041,104 605,780,077
    1999 68,950,977 160,048,816 163,834,584 228,866,880 730,570,772
    2000 71,047,087 174,437,204 178,841,831 255,461,211 881,068,351
    2001 73,206,919 190,119,109 195,223,743 285,145,804 1,062,568,432
    2002 75,432,409 207,210,817 213,106,238 318,279,747 1,281,457,529
    2003 77,725,554 225,839,069 232,626,769 355,263,853 1,545,437,780
    2004 80,088,411 246,142,002 253,935,381 396,545,513 1,863,797,962
    2005 82,523,099 268,270,168 277,195,862 442,624,102 2,247,740,342
    2006 85,031,801 292,387,656 302,587,003 494,057,022 2,710,774,853
    2007 87,616,768 318,673,306 330,303,973 551,466,448 3,269,194,473
    2008 90,280,317 347,322,036 360,559,817 615,546,849 3,942,648,534
    2009 93,024,839 378,546,287 393,587,096 687,073,393 4,754,834,132
    2010 95,852,794 412,577,599 429,639,674 766,911,322 5,734,329,963
    2011 98,766,719 449,668,325 468,994,668 856,026,417 6,915,601,936
    2012 101,769,227 490,093,507 511,954,580 955,496,687 8,340,215,935
    2013 104,863,012 534,152,913 558,849,619 1,066,525,402 10,058,300,417
    2014 108,050,847 582,173,260 610,040,244 1,190,455,654 12,130,310,303
    2015 111,335,593 634,510,636 665,919,931 1,328,786,601 14,629,154,226
    2016 114,720,195 691,553,142 726,918,196 1,483,191,604 17,642,759,996
    2017 118,207,689 753,723,770 793,503,903 1,655,538,468 21,277,168,555
    2018 121,801,203 821,483,537 866,188,861 1,847,912,038 25,660,265,277
    2019 125,503,959 895,334,907 945,531,760 2,062,639,417 30,946,279,925
    2020 129,319,280 975,825,515 1,032,142,470 2,302,318,117 37,321,213,589
    2021 133,250,586 1,063,552,229 1,126,686,720 2,569,847,482 45,009,383,588
    2022 137,301,404 1,159,165,574 1,229,891,224 2,868,463,760 54,281,316,608
    2023 141,475,366 1,263,374,559 1,342,549,260 3,201,779,249 65,463,267,829
    2024 145,776,217 1,376,951,932 1,465,526,772 3,573,825,997 78,948,701,002
    2025 150,207,814 1,500,739,911 1,599,769,024 3,989,104,578 95,212,133,408


    If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

    The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

    This is not a dollar-by-dollar comparison.  Yearly income/loss, secondary income from MLB, owner revenue sharing, there are a lot of dollars unaccounted for here.  It is also very easy in hindsight to go back and cherry pick investments to bolster this argument. 

    For the majority of baseball owners, the issue is status as much as money.  Regardless of anything you hear, owners make money (both short term and long term) on these teams.  The perception status of owning a team, bringing a championship and being loved by millions of people is real.

    26 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

    If they invested that $44M in a bunch of poor businesses they would have lost money. I never said the Pohlads do the negotiations, but don't you think they have a say in their own business?

    The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either.

    How absurd!

    It is unusual for an MLB owner to actively involve themselves in roster decisions beyond approving major contracts or trades, and when owners do involve themselves more significantly like in choosing players, it's usually bad news. This is how big companies work. The Pohlads own the business and Jim served as the chairman of the board. Evaluating talent, and roster construction is not their area of expertise.

    Choosing which players need to be traded or signed is the same thing as sweeping floors to the chairman of the board.

      

    33 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    This is not a dollar-by-dollar comparison.  Yearly income/loss, secondary income from MLB, owner revenue sharing, there are a lot of dollars unaccounted for here.  It is also very easy in hindsight to go back and cherry pick investments to bolster this argument. 

    For the majority of baseball owners, the issue is status as much as money.  Regardless of anything you hear, owners make money (both short term and long term) on these teams.  The perception status of owning a team, bringing a championship and being loved by millions of people is real.

    The point is wealthy people do not ignore tens of millions of dollars, and the idea the Twins have been some sort of wildly successful investment with returns so high the Pohlads should be willing to completely ignore tens of millions of dollars is a tough sell. That's especially the case since it's likely the Pohlads are selling the Twins due to liquidity issues stemming from their huge investments in commercial realty. The Twins have been an okay investment, and the franchise has cumulatively lost significant money over the past 5 years according to Forbes/Statista thanks to operating losses of nearly $80MM in 2020 and 2022 combined. I will trust financial reporting companies like Forbes over your personal opinion. 

    I agree that ownership of a pro sports franchise is about prestige. Not sure how that relates to the discussion other than furthering my point about the lackluster returns.

    51 minutes ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

    Again with this bad take.  They have a lease with Target Field for starters that runs at least 2039 so that's the first problem in moving the team.  The second problem is where, exactly, do people who make this statement think this new location would be?  Don't you think the Miami Marlins or Arizona D'Backs or Oakland A's would already be there?

    It's amazing that people think that someone just buys a team and then moves it somewhere completely different the next year like this is "Major League" or something.  

    I can understand the fear. While I agree that it's highly unlikely to happen, for various reasons (the fact that we have a great stadium, there's a long term lease in place, the size of the Twin Cities market and potential reach into Iowa, Nebraska, and the Dakotas, the sizeable corporate base here, limited attractive alternatives, etc) anyone that lived through the contraction debacle is going to have a concern.

    Nashville, Charlotte, or Portland aren't unreasonable alternatives and have floated out there before. But it's still very unlikely. John Fisher had to really run things into the ground in Oakland in order to force his way out, and it took a long time of absolute trash product in an almost impossibly bad stadium with the Giants across the Bay to get him to Vegas.

    the fear is overblown IMHO, but I understand the reaction.

    Thinking about this more, if we truly should expect new owners by opening day (I'm still skeptical), cutting back on payroll can't be a good sign. Why would the Pohlad's care if they're done writing checks come March? If payroll is being cut, wouldn't it be to appease the new owners?

    To be clear, moving Vazquez or Paddack could be done for goals OTHER than trimming payroll, but if they are moved, we probably need to wait before we start hailing our new masters.

    2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Thinking about this more, if we truly should expect new owners by opening day (I'm still skeptical), cutting back on payroll can't be a good sign. Why would the Pohlad's care if they're done writing checks come March? If payroll is being cut, wouldn't it be to appease the new owners?

    To be clear, moving Vazquez or Paddack could be done for goals OTHER than trimming payroll, but if they are moved, we probably need to wait before we start hailing our new masters.

    I would be quite surprised if there were any cuts. I think there may be a small add (@$6M). There may be trades aimed at improving the team. The Twins are at $134M including Dobnak.

    6 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

    I can understand the fear. While I agree that it's highly unlikely to happen, for various reasons (the fact that we have a great stadium, there's a long term lease in place, the size of the Twin Cities market and potential reach into Iowa, Nebraska, and the Dakotas, the sizeable corporate base here, limited attractive alternatives, etc) anyone that lived through the contraction debacle is going to have a concern.

    Nashville, Charlotte, or Portland aren't unreasonable alternatives and have floated out there before. But it's still very unlikely. John Fisher had to really run things into the ground in Oakland in order to force his way out, and it took a long time of absolute trash product in an almost impossibly bad stadium with the Giants across the Bay to get him to Vegas.

    the fear is overblown IMHO, but I understand the reaction.

    2 cities are going to get teams, they just aren't getting relocated teams. MLB has been very open about expansion. That's their plan. And they've been very vocal that they're doing it after Oakland and Tampa settle their stadium situations. Those situations looked settled, but now Tampa is a little up in the air. The owners don't want teams moving, they want billions of outside money poured into the league in the form of expansion fees. 

    The only reasonable fear is probably if the league will be ready to expand again in 15+ years or if the owners will want to move the Twins sometime in the 2040s.

    19 minutes ago, ashbury said:

    If the Pohlads had had the foresight to hold off a year or two and invest in Enron instead of the Twins, imagine how things would have turned out for them!

    That is actually a fun story in a way. Some people bought Enron early and continually sold half each time it doubled. The gains were very impressive (1-2-4-8-16-32-64) and the losses when Enron went bankrupt were still unwanted but almost laughable in the face of the previous gains. It was also, somewhat a lesson in greed. Yes, I do know people who did exactly that. 

    4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

    2 cities are going to get teams, they just aren't getting relocated teams. MLB has been very open about expansion. That's their plan. And they've been very vocal that they're doing it after Oakland and Tampa settle their stadium situations. Those situations looked settled, but now Tampa is a little up in the air. The owners don't want teams moving, they want billions of outside money poured into the league in the form of expansion fees. 

    The only reasonable fear is probably if the league will be ready to expand again in 15+ years or if the owners will want to move the Twins sometime in the 2040s.

    Yeah, that's what they want now, but it's super short sighted. 

    Half the league is struggling with 21st Century TV and marketing situations, and now they're going to throw two more bottom tier markets into the mix? Yeah, great call MLB. Those new markets will be shiny and fresh for their local fans for 5-10 years than will be hanging out at the bottom of the food chain with the Pirates and Marlins.

    But that's pro sports owners for you. Bleed as much cash out of it as you can now and don't worry about the future. 




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