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  • Pete Alonso and the Twins: 3 Ways This Trade Actually Happens


    Matt Braun

    Might the Polar Bear soon call home to a land more suited to his arctic preferences?

    Image courtesy of Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports

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    Dan Szymborski of Fangraphs recently penned a piece in which he pondered a reality in which the Mets dealt their slugging 1st baseman. New York has been a mess in 2023. They already partook in a mass exodus of notable talent—with the future Hall-of-Famers Max Scherzer and Justin Verlander as the most prominent names. Even Mark Canha got the boot.

    Pete Alonso, however, stayed put. The team offered his name around—Steve Cohen had already bought some great prospects, why not get some more—but no deal materialized, and Alonso was forced to stay put, perhaps leading the "Get to Know Each Other" introductions the clubhouse soon held (this did not happen). With the Mets planning on not competing until 2025, finding a new team for a player soon to be a free agent appears inevitable. Let's see how the Twins could fit into this.

    Alonso is already a Twin in many ways; the righty appears to fit the slugging/OBP/who cares about batting average/why are we striking out so much mold the team has targeted in recent years. That isn't entirely fair. Alonso whiffs at a rate around league average and takes enough walks to buoy his on-base ability to be above your standard MLB first baseman. But who cares about all that? You're trading for Alonso because he hits dingers—a lot. Since debuting in 2019, he's first in all of MLB in long balls—19 above second-place Matt Olson.

    Part of that is his prodigious power. Alonso has also been remarkably healthy, only hitting the IL twice since breaking into the majors; his 656 games played since 2019 trail just three position players. 

    Alonso plays first base and DHs—he has no positional flexibility. That could cause significant problems for the Twins if they need to run back the Byron Buxton Never Sees the Field show, but otherwise, the fit can work. They'll need to shuffle hitters, ensuring that Matt WallnerRoyce LewisJorge PolancoEdouard JulienAlex Kirilloff, and Alonso can't all be in the lineup, but, come on, when have the Twins ever been that healthy? If that's too much, the obvious answer is to deal Polanco, who should be attractive with a vested 2024 option and a cheap 2025 club option. 

    As you may remember from a few paragraphs before, Alonso is a free agent after 2024. Signing recently-acquired players to an extension isn't impossible—just as the Cardinals with Paul Goldschmidt, the Dodgers with Mookie Betts, and the Braves with *gestures broadly*—but it would place pressure on the team to ensure they aren't hemorrhaging prospects for rentals. The future payroll isn't too dirty, as Carlos Correa and Pablo López are the only players set to earn more than $20 million. 

    What would such a trade look like? Baseball Trade Values isn't perfect, but it's helpful to at least get close to finding somewhat even deals; no packaging Nick Gordon and Brent Rooker for stars. I've prepared three deals:

    Screenshot2023-09-01112225.png.20bdb3b7de0ed5fc2117f1fbd8a6b8be.png

    The first is a package of two near-big-leaguers and Trevor Larnach. Trade deadline rumors pegged the Mets intrigued by Larnach, so let's give them what they want. Tanner Schobel and Marco Raya give them two quality prospects already at AA—in line with New York's plan to ammo up for a run after next season. I think the site has Raya and Schobel underrated, given that Raya is a 45+/50 FV guy, and Schobel is probably one step behind him, so only one of them may be needed in this deal. 

    Screenshot2023-09-01112343.png.365ced5aee4ddd0d0306f57f656cbf4d.png

    The second is a combo of buy-low guys. New York can give Josh Winder a shot in the rotation, something the Twins probably can't/won't do given their need to be competitive; they can't suffer his inevitable lumps if they want to win next year. Jose Miranda muddies the Mets' infielders-in-name-only situation, but as long as his bat rebounds, New York would not mind too much.

    Screenshot2023-09-01113154.png.6fd3b7e5447ec40c523fb0e13a4e3c22.png

    The third is a precarious long-shot deal. Who knows, though? Steve Cohen may be a fan of lotto tickets. Yasser Mercedes gives them a chance at finding a future dynamic outfield star, while Connor Prielipp could recover on the East Coast, offering a cheap chance at ace upside. This deal could quickly turn into a "we dealt Alonso for two burnouts" trade, but if Cohen wants to roll the dice, this deal offers tremendous upside. 

    It's unlikely that the Twins would acquire Alonso, but it was also twice as unlikely that Correa would sign with them. Minnesota has flipped the popular narrative several times over the last few years. If they want a big bat—and if the Mets are willing to play—bringing Alonso to the Midwest could be the play. 

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    I do not think this is necessary, but we do have some excess talent that we cannot get on the roster.  But these trade ideas do not really clear those obstacles.  What would you have to do to trade Buxton for Alonso?

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    I have shockingly little interest in trading value players for a pending free agent. The Twins remain a mid-market team with long-ish sizable contracts already out on Correa and Buxton, and they have a wealth of young controllable talent to help keep them competitive as those contracts age (and nobody ever planned on them aging gracefully). We are so much better off with real depth (just consider how many Saints OFs have been called up this year, and blessedly none of them named Celestino), and if trades/extensions need to happen I'm more interested in pitching than a short term power bat.

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    I wouldn't say no, but I think it's incorrect to assume in 2024 the Twins will again go for the "who cares about batting average/why are we striking out so much mold".

    This is an extremely reactionary front office. They tend to swing away from what didn't work the prior season (and then swing back to those things years later when the new approach didn't pan out either).

    Aside from being another lefty, Kirilloff's high contact approach might be what the team guns for in the off season.

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    All three trades are no brainers and IMO none would be enough.

    The first one might do it, if they think Larnach can stay healthy and be on the opening day roster, Raya and Schobel could also be up pretty quickly.

    a 25 year old injured minor league player and a 27 year old relief pitcher?

    The third one might be the most intriguing for them, but most all be the one that back fires the worst or not see value for years.

     

     

     

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    I don’t think BTV works with the Mets well. BTV assumes that all teams care the same about salaries. The values of the players don’t change as different teams and budget constraints are paired together.

    The reason that Alonso is only worth 11 is because his salary next year will be high and there isn’t a lot of excess value. While they are at it the Twins may as well as toss in Castro while the Mets toss in Lindor. They have about the same excess value.

    The only way the Mets trade Alonso for 2024 is if they perceive the return gives them a better chance to win in 2024. They need a catcher. Maybe a deal of Jeffers and Kepler would give them hope of a better 2024. The Twins aren’t making that deal.

    If somehow the Mets change do an 180 and start dumping salaries in plans of tanking for 2024 those deals might work.

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    I would agree a little early to be talking about off-season things.  I also believe it would take more than any of the trades mentioned to get Mets to trade him away.  He may be just a bat, but he hits HR and teams value those a lot.  He also has been a big name for Mets since his rookie season.  Meaning unless they think they can get a star in return it will look bad on them.  Even if the possible values are close, the optics for the Mets are not great if they do not get a possible star in return. 

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    Not opposed to any trade that would make them better.  Assumption is Kiriloff at 1B full time, but do we really think that is the answer.  Kepler to me kind of dictates '24 season.  Has he earned the option with his 2nd half performance?  If not, then Wallner & Kiriloff are your corners.  Larnach might be odd OF out.  Miranda might be IF that gets left behind.

     

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    I wince at losing Raya, and to a lesser degree Schobel, so that one is probably fair. I would give up Miranda/Winder for Alonso in a heartbeat, which means it's probably not enough. Mercedes/Prielipp is truly two lotto tickets that in a few years could just as easily turn into "We only gave up two burn-outs for Alonso" as "The Twins actually traded these two future all-stars for one year of Pete Alonso"

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    4 hours ago, jkcarew said:

    Any trade would assume one season of Alonzo. He will 110% hit the market after the 2024 season.

    Well, the same thing occurred with Correa and what happened? Never say never…

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    1 hour ago, LanceJS said:

    Well, the same thing occurred with Correa and what happened? Never say never…

    As I recall, Correa did indeed hit the market (twice).  While he quickly found said market to be far less robust than expected, it doesn’t change the fact that Correa opted for free agency over extensions in back to back years.

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    I would be ecstatic to get Alonso for Miranda (clearly not in the Twins plans going forward) and Winder (easily replaceable by any number of MiLB starters/relievers).

    That said, if the Mets are trading Alonso, it’s not for salary relief; Cohen has made it clear he does not care what he spends so long as it translates to wins.  Thus, the players the Mets get back will have to project to be key parts of a winning team; I don’t think either Miranda or Winder comes anywhere close to that.

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    If the bast is any indication of what the Mets would trade for you need to look at the trades they made. Robertson, Verlander and Scherzer went for 21 and under high ceiling prospects.  I don’t think this FO would make that kind of deal for 1 year of Alonso and a later comp pick. Larnach and lottery tickets perhaps.

    September, pennant races, playoffs, I suppose it is never too early to shift to fantasy GM time

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    IMO all the Twins pieces are at their low point of their true value. I'd hold onto them until their stock goes up and get someone better. IMO 1B isn't a problem area with Kiriloff, Julien & Miranda once he turns things around, they are much better valued options.

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    2 hours ago, LanceJS said:

    Well, the same thing occurred with Correa and what happened? Never say never…

    Except, Correa DID hit the market…then a miracle…two once-ever occurrences took place.

    So…not happening. Not that I’m totally opposed to trading for him. But you have to pay a price that assumes one year.

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    I like Pete Alonso!  I think it will take much more than what you have offered to get him.  Which Twins don’t fit well with unless you are vastly overpaying in prospect capital.  
     

    If the Mets would take any of our young extra pieces for him I’d make the deal.  (Extra pieces being Miranda, Larnach, Winder, Woods Richardson Celestino, Prato) 

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    These are all no brainer trades the Twins should make in a heartbeat.  As someone very astutely pointed out, this is the inherent flaw in BTV.  The "values" match up.  But would the Mets actually do this?  Even in an over pay, Alonso would be a great trade target for the Twins, even if you only had him for one year.  He's a decent comp for Harmon Killebrew.  He doesn't walk as much and strikes out more, but that .254 career batting average and 100 RBI seasons ensure you're not getting a Miguel Sano comp.  

    I wouldn't mind if Alonso could only play 1B or DH.  It's not like you can count on ANYTHING from Byron Buxton going forward from this point.  The Twins FO should actively be planning on life without Buxton anyway.  Get a guy who can play CF every day (Lewis???) and anything you get from Buxton is a bonus.  But to count on anything from him in 2024 and beyond is FO malpractice.  Alonso would look pretty good batting cleanup for the Twins in 2024, and hey, maybe he finds he likes it here like Correa and sticks around.  

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    The Mets would require high level prospects for Alonso, some combination of Schobel, Lee, Raya, Kiriloff and maybe Larnach. Lee should be untouchable, and maybe Raya too since the Twins top prospects are thin in pitching after last year’s trades. If Larnach and Schobel could get the trade done I would do it, since both are behind other players. It would make for an interesting 2024. That said, I am feeling pretty optimistic on the Twins’ future, with a young core that will only get better with more experience. Hopefully the starting rotation holds up and Paddock is healthy and rebounds. 

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    Ya'll are delusional if you think either of these trades would be even close to what they would be wanting. Guarantee they would be wanting a MLB starting position player and several A list prospects. 

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    On 9/8/2023 at 4:58 PM, Cap'n Piranha said:

    As I recall, Correa did indeed hit the market (twice).  While he quickly found said market to be far less robust than expected, it doesn’t change the fact that Correa opted for free agency over extensions in back to back years.

    And he made more than the extension offers  150 million even with all the drama and reduced salary in the 3 separate contract negotiations.  

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