Emmanuel Rodriguez's Time With the Twins May Be Coming to an End Before it Begins

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins have done everything they possibly could to mismanage Rodriguez. Falvinzoll's failure has been maximized.

Rodriguez's trade value is utterly tanked. He's never had a single PA at the MLB option, but he won't pass through waivers, either. The Twins elected to bring back a player they shouldn't have (Larnach) sign a player they shouldn't have (Bell) and refused to move on from either when it was obvious the season was basically over.

We're left with a player who cannot be DFA'd because of the sheer stupidity of doing so, cannot be traded for anything of value and cannot be relied upon as a 26 man contributor. 

Bell is 5th in the league in RBI and Larnarch has had a good season.  I can't complain about those two on the roster.  ERod just needed more time to break back in and get in a rhythm after a long layoff from injury.  He should be up before the end of the season.  Be patient.

[farmerguychris]

It would be foolish to not have him start 2027 on the major league club IF he's healthy.  Others in the organization can be put on hold for a bit as we need to see what we've got with him.  Pretty simple for me.  

Let go of Larnach, Gabby can still be in AAA, not sure if Rodon has options, but hopefully he will.  

[HarmonK03]

17 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Outman received 70 plate appearances over the course of 64 games. Due to the relative health of the Twins OF, and Austin Martin going on a bit of a heater to start the season, there just wasn't a role for someone like Rodriguez. And if I'm not mistaken, by the time they cut bait on Outman, Rodriguez was once again injured. 

People here love to complain about Outman, but he was such a small part of the team that no one should want to see a prospect step into. 

Teams use four outfielders all the time, it's about managing at bats.  Players don't play 162 games any more even if healthy.  This narrative is that he would have been in Outman's role is just not clear thinking.  If a player shows he can play you play him.  Which is why Outman never got any AB's because he showed he couldn't be productive.  He made the roster because he was traded for and this team just didn't want to admit that it didn't work out.

It's nice to have a set lineup but its even better when you 10 or 11 starter quality level players so that when you do make out the lineup you can still put a productive order out there without all of your top 9.

[old nurse]

If he is a Twin next year he will be on the MLB team or the MLB IL Being up foe September does not change that process. September play is not going to. Be the deciding factor. If he came up and failed it removes a lot of value from him.  Zoll has to clear some outfielders out. 

[Road trip]

18 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Bell is 5th in the league in RBI and Larnarch has had a good season.  I can't complain about those two on the roster.  ERod just needed more time to break back in and get in a rhythm after a long layoff from injury.  He should be up before the end of the season.  Be patient.

Larnach had a good two month stretch.

On the year he's been worth 1.1 BWAR, and that number has been dropping since July.  He hits for average without typical corner outfield power, is a poor fielder, and is one of the slowest outfielders in MLB.

If the Twins management doesn't want to seek out an improvement for a LF that consistently puts up about 1 WAR/year, we will never be contenders.

[NYCTK]

3 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Teams use four outfielders all the time, it's about managing at bats.  Players don't play 162 games any more even if healthy.  This narrative is that he would have been in Outman's role is just not clear thinking.  If a player shows he can play you play him.  Which is why Outman never got any AB's because he showed he couldn't be productive.  He made the roster because he was traded for and this team just didn't want to admit that it didn't work out.

It's nice to have a set lineup but its even better when you 10 or 11 starter quality level players so that when you do make out the lineup you can still put a productive order out there without all of your top 9.

Yes, I suppose he could take Outman's spot but not Outman's role, but that would have meant Martin would be in Outman's role then, and Martin was playing exceptionally well at that time. So would we have preferred Martin be the one that was used sparingly? 

It's perfectly acceptable and common to have players on your 26 man roster that you don't intend on using heavily, which is why the Twins selected Outman over Rodriguez, precisely for that role. 

And as for this years long idea that the Twins REFUSE to admit failures and never cut veterans, Outman proves how wrong that is. He was used sparingly and then cut about a third of the way through the season! 

 

 

[HarmonK03]

13 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Yes, I suppose he could take Outman's spot but not Outman's role, but that would have meant Martin would be in Outman's role then, and Martin was playing exceptionally well at that time. So would we have preferred Martin be the one that was used sparingly? 

It's perfectly acceptable and common to have players on your 26 man roster that you don't intend on using heavily, which is why the Twins selected Outman over Rodriguez, precisely for that role. 

And as for this years long idea that the Twins REFUSE to admit failures and never cut veterans, Outman proves how wrong that is. He was used sparingly and then cut about a third of the way through the season! 

 

 

Most teams would not have brought Outman out of spring training with them, so no they don't get a pass on finally getting rid of him when he became unplayable any longer.

You have 4 bench positions, you utilize all of them.  The Twins like to sacrifice one or two which is just stupid and I am not going to drink the kool-aid.  Look at the winning teams, they don't have players sit for three weeks without playing them.

[Brandon]

8 minutes ago, Road trip said:

Larnach had a good two month stretch.

On the year he's been worth 1.1 BWAR, and that number has been dropping since July.  He hits for average without typical corner outfield power, is a poor fielder, and is one of the slowest outfielders in MLB.

If the Twins management doesn't want to seek out an improvement for a LF that consistently puts up about 1 WAR/year, we will never be contenders.

8 minutes ago, old nurse said:

If he is a Twin next year he will be on the MLB team or the MLB IL Being up foe September does not change that process. September play is not going to. Be the deciding factor. If he came up and failed it removes a lot of value from him.  Zoll has to clear some outfielders out. 

Zoll can move some to 1B or DH next year.  

 

I doubt Larnarch is back next year.  This year he was fine.  

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

28 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Bell is 5th in the league in RBI and Larnarch has had a good season.  I can't complain about those two on the roster.  ERod just needed more time to break back in and get in a rhythm after a long layoff from injury.  He should be up before the end of the season.  Be patient.

Am I imaging something where the Twins are not 69-77?

Has Larnach really had a good season? He has hit .180 since July 26 with 4 homers and 9 RBI and a OBP below .300 and a SLG a hair over .350. and Josh Bell has a WAR of less than 1, is that what fans consider good season? Less than Lewis and tied with Martin and .2 less than Culpepper who has played in 112 less games. 

[Brandon]

Just now, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Am I imaging something where the Twins are not 69-77?

Has Larnach really had a good season? He has hit .180 since July 26 with 4 homers and 9 RBI and a OBP below .300 and a SLG a hair over .350. and Josh Bell has a WAR of less than 1, is that what fans consider good season? Less than Lewis and tied with Martin and .2 less than Culpepper who has played in 112 less games. 

The Twins are 2nd in the League in Runs Scored.  They are also 2nd in the league in most runs given up.  I don't 🤔 think offense was the problem this season.  I hope you can take a closer look at the overall team. 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

11 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

So would we have preferred Martin be the one that was used sparingly? 

Yes, absolutely because if ERod wasn't ready he could have been demoted, and maybe those two could have played off each other?  

[NYCTK]

3 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Most teams would not have brought Outman out of spring training with them, so no they don't get a pass on finally getting rid of him when he became unplayable any longer.

You have 4 bench positions, you utilize all of them.  The Twins like to sacrifice one or two which is just stupid and I am going to drink the kool-aid.  Look at the winning teams, they don't have players sit for three weeks without playing them.

That's where you and I just have to agree to disagree. Plenty of teams will take a veteran OF into the regular season rather than bring up a prospect, who needs to work on his plate approach, and have him sit on the bench. 

Just looking at a few teams in the AL - 

White Sox: Derek Hill
Yankees: Randal Grichuk

etc, etc, etc

It's so common that it's not even notable. 

[NYCTK]

8 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Yes, absolutely because if ERod wasn't ready he could have been demoted, and maybe those two could have played off each other?  

The good news is, with Martin's option preserved he can start 2027 in AAA to make room for Rodriguez in the majors, if necessary. 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

9 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The Twins are 2nd in the League in Runs Scored.  They are also 2nd in the league in most runs given up.  I don't 🤔 think offense was the problem this season.  I hope you can take a closer look at the overall team. 

The Twins are 1 - 32 when scoring two or less runs, which is close to .25% of the games, and have scored 6 or more runs 23 times. Consistency on offense was one of the main issues this year, but generally had problems everywhere and this season should have been more about developing then pretending to compete. 

[Andy MacPhail]

Twins had a great international program. In '19 we signed Internationals Polanco, Sano & Kepler to extensions, who had a great season in their young career. Polanco & Sano were both All-stars, they were to lead our Twins to a very promising future.

Where is our international program now? Emma has been our only international hope. If they give up on Emma, what does that tell you about our international program? IMO, the scouting, drafting & developing have left a lot to be desired. In the early years of the Twins the International market was our salvation. Players like Camilio Pasqual, Tony Oliva, Ziolo Versalles & Rod Carew were bedrocks to our team. IMO, they have ignored this "gold mine", it shouldn't be especially for smaller markets. My hope is that this new regime will change the old philosophy with better scouting, drafting & development.

[bean5302]

51 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Bell is 5th in the league in RBI and Larnarch has had a good season.  I can't complain about those two on the roster.  ERod just needed more time to break back in and get in a rhythm after a long layoff from injury.  He should be up before the end of the season.  Be patient.

Bad decisions, mixed results.

RBI is a fun old school stat which you're pointing to as proof of Bell's contribution to the team winning games. Bell didn't put guys on base before he got to the plate, though, and when Bell had RBI, it was in games where those RBI apparently didn't matter since he's well below average in qualified player WPA. Bell's at 81/122 qualified players in WPA. -0.40 on the year. So when it count, Bell helped lose games an average player would have helped win.

Trevor Larnach's had a great season. Far, far beyond what any reasonable person would have predicted. It culminated in a solid, but unspectacular 2.0 fWAR because he's a terrible fielder, and when he could have been traded, the Twins failed to do so to clear roster space. There was little in Larnachs 0.6 fWAR average season history to suggest he deserved a MLB contract, much less a starting job out of spring training with a team absolutely loaded to the gills with left handed batting defensively challenged players and the log jam of prospects in the minors. Did taking the drunken shortcut across the thin ice from the bar back home work out? Yeah. Was it a good idea? No.

Is Emma any good? Who knows, but I think he's either going to be very good or very bad with little in between and he should have been an excellent corner outfielder. 2.0 WAR is a middling every day player production level. There's a good chance Emma would have outperformed Larnach and helped the Twins win more games. The whopping 10 games he's get under his belt will tell us nothing. Patience and taking their time with Rodriguez had run out last year. We're well beyond the "have patience" reasonable time frame.

 

[HeresWaldo]

Trading Rodriguez would be a huge mistake for two big reasons:

1) You're absolutely right there's a logjam of bat-first players in the organization, but Rodriguez is the only one with plus power. I'm not saying everyone on the team should be a three true outcomes guy, but someone has to hit for power, and it doesn't look like it's going to be Larnach, Jenkins, Mendez, Keashall, Martin, or Gonzalez.

2) This organization is in desperate need of upside, and any Rodriguez trade is going to bring back less upside than he has. Yes there's a chance he turns out to be a bust or he can't get past the injuries, but if he's healthy and pans out he's the only prospect in the system with 30 homer power potential and solid defense. This org has plenty of floor, what it needs are the Rodriguez types. 

If he goes bust in hindsight it'll look dumb to have kept him, and I was on board with trading him years ago when he was still far away. But trading him off the AAA roster where he's playing very well would be nuts.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

42 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

That's where you and I just have to agree to disagree. Plenty of teams will take a veteran OF into the regular season rather than bring up a prospect, who needs to work on his plate approach, and have him sit on the bench. 

Just looking at a few teams in the AL - 

White Sox: Derek Hill
Yankees: Randal Grichuk

etc, etc, etc

It's so common that it's not even notable. 

Teams that don't have a back log of possible prospects in AAA after missing the playoffs the last two years, absolutely have a veteran OF into the regular season, 100%. 

The Twins had a god awful off season, roster construction was terrible when the decided to keep Wallner, Larnach, Roden and the Outman on top of signing Bell and decided not to trade Lopez/Ryan/Jeffers (one or all), and at the same time did nothing about the pen, then the Lopez injury happened and they were stuck in the middle ground and this FO/Mgmt has proven time and again they are horsesh!t of changing on the fly. 

So if they would not have had one of Larnach or Wallner, and had Erod up; having Outman as the last guy off the bench would have defensible and probably the right thing to do. Veteran presence that could cover CF, come in late for Larnach/Wallner, steal a base and not play much. Martin still could played against LH and been the utility player he is. 

The prediction for this team was it was not likely to make the playoffs and unless by some miracle (which is tough with the Blue Jay playing 9 games against teams ahead of the Twins) the prediction will come true. Some good things did come out of the season, Culpepper getting up, Jenkins getting valuable at bats, Lee proving to be a viable 3B, Clemens proving to a super utility player, Matthews, Prielipp, and Morris (and even Adams, Paredes, Rojas, and FunderburK) getting great experience and obviously Bradley.

But as of right now, next year doesn't look much different than last year, so lets hope the FO has a better off season than last year. 

[Dawgzilla]

Laurnach won't be around.  He is a nice guy, but average hitter!

 

Jenkins needs slightly more minor league seasoning.

[weitz41]

I find the fact that E Rod hasn't been called up mind boggling. All I can come up with is steady AB's in AAA is seen as better than as few in MLB?  I'm guessing he'll get called up after AAA season is done.

I can't see the Twins trading him at this point when there are far more preferable guys to move.

As for 2027 season Zolls going to have to get busy moving parttime players and DH's to make the outfield roster work with no options for E Rod, An outfield mix of Buxton, Jenkins, E Rod, Keaschall, Martin and Clemens seems doable with the DH spot open and Clemens playing mostly 2B.  It's going to be a nightmare if E Rod struggles, but the upside is so high it's worth the shot...

[thelanges5]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

Bell is 5th in the league in RBI and Larnarch has had a good season.  I can't complain about those two on the roster.  ERod just needed more time to break back in and get in a rhythm after a long layoff from injury.  He should be up before the end of the season.  Be patient.

Larnach has a .568 OPS in his last 30 games and doesn’t play good defense. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

There is a lot of hand wringing in this comment section about what the Twins did or didn't do.  Yes.  There were some bad decisions -- some only in hindsight, but some should have been in foresight as well.  There is plenty to argue about and quibble with there.  However, the bigger and more important question is what do they do with Rodriguez moving forward.  

MAYBE he gets called up after the AAA season and gets a smattering of at bats (even if he plays full time).  I'm not sure if that actually helps anyone, except by possibly exposing a few warts to the rest of the world if he doesn't hit immediately -- and with no time to recover.  Look how many people here have somewhat soured on Walker Jenkins, even though the SSS means nothing at all in a first taste of the majors at his youthful age. He will be fine.  It just may take longer than people want it to. 

MAYBE they send him to the AFL with a first baseman's glove and he rakes there -- that's always been a pretty solid indicator of future success.  I've said before that moving him to 1B is an avenue that I would pursue, but many disagree with that, which is also understandable. 

MORE LIKELY he comes to Fort Myers for training camp next spring, hits well, and wins a spot out of spring training on the team.  IF he does that, there are no issues.  Who knows?  He could be the AL ROY!  IF he doesn't hit well in the spring, it makes it messier, but he has the kind of pedigree that demands that the Twins have some patience with him.  

MOSTLY, I think he has a solid future in MLB and the reports of his sudden demise have been greatly exaggerated.  We'll know more of the answer to this next summer by about July.  

[MMBoys93]

19 hours ago, Brandon said:

ERod is getting everyday AB in AAA right now after a long layoff from injury.  I think he will get.called.up after the AAA season ends or after the Twins are eliminated from post season contention. He won't get too many opportunities but some and next season he will start in the OF as well.  He will get his chance.  How could the Twins not want to give a guy with a .400 OBP a chance. 

Roden has a .400 obp his last 2 minor league seasons and Twins didn’t give him a legit chance this year. 
If any team would do what you ask, it would be the Twins 

[NYCTK]

2 hours ago, Dawgzilla said:

Laurnach won't be around. 

Ok. But what about Larnach? 

[HarmonK03]

2 hours ago, weitz41 said:

I find the fact that E Rod hasn't been called up mind boggling. All I can come up with is steady AB's in AAA is seen as better than as few in MLB?  I'm guessing he'll get called up after AAA season is done.

I can't see the Twins trading him at this point when there are far more preferable guys to move.

As for 2027 season Zolls going to have to get busy moving parttime players and DH's to make the outfield roster work with no options for E Rod, An outfield mix of Buxton, Jenkins, E Rod, Keaschall, Martin and Clemens seems doable with the DH spot open and Clemens playing mostly 2B.  It's going to be a nightmare if E Rod struggles, but the upside is so high it's worth the shot...

Why do you think Zoll will all of a sudden act any different.  He needs to be gone to a let a real baseball executive lead this process.

[HarmonK03]

49 minutes ago, MMBoys93 said:

Roden has a .400 obp his last 2 minor league seasons and Twins didn’t give him a legit chance this year. 
If any team would do what you ask, it would be the Twins 

Roden has 230 plate appearances in the last two years, playing full time last year for a month for Toronto and has an OPS of .586.  He has had more of a chance than people want to give credit for, yes he could probably use more time.  But are you going to prioritize playing time for a 27 year old who didn't take advantage of his opportunity or younger prospects who have more potential upside.

The trade for Roden made no sense at the time and fair or not he needs to be organizational depth at this point.