Twins Missed a Golden Opportunity with Byron Buxton Roster Move

[arby58]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm certainly not going to make any argument that Kyler Fedko is some great major leaguer. Or a major leaguer at all. But if front offices followed this thinking, there'd be a bunch of Hall of Famers not in the Hall of Fame. 16 ABs and you're out if you don't succeed? Mike Trout was 2 for 17 to start his career. If Fedko had 2 hits would it significantly change your mind on him? Buxton was 2 for 16. Again, 2 hits changing your mind significantly on someone?

Obviously, those are extreme examples of elite prospects failing early vs a guy you mostly hope is a 4th OFer. But "you've had your chance" after 16 ABs is an awful thought process for a front office to be making decisions on.

I didn’t say he was done - I said he’d be at the far end of the bench. Did you watch his ABs? Totally over-matched. He can get another chance, just not in the midst of a fight for a play-off spot. Besides 2 for 16 is not 0 for 16. How many more Ks until he bleeds one through the infield and we shout Eureka?

[HarmonK03]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Then it's Arcia I assume.

Arcia was released last week.

[Riverbrian]

7 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Or maybe it starts the learning curve and it helps him be successful and even more so in 2027.  Other teams do this, the Tigers just called up Max Clark.  We have a need for a center fielder and Jenkins by most reports is close to being ready.  If you want 100% certainty than wait until he is 27.

I'm heartened by the Max Clark call up. Max is in the exact same boat as Walker and Kaelen. December 2027 guys. 

It shows a willingness for teams to make those type of contract purchases in the face of the CBA. 

 

[HarmonK03]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm heartened by the Max Clark call up. Max is in the exact same boat as Walker and Kaelen. December 2027 guys. 

It shows a willingness for teams to make those type of contract purchases in the face of the CBA. 

 

But they didn't wait until December 2027, they called up Clark now.  We should be doing the same.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, HarmonK03 said:

Arcia was released last week.

I missed that.

So with the Gray call up. We are down to? Ross? Morrissette? 

Keaschall back to the infield? 

Acquiring an infielder at the deadline? 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm heartened by the Max Clark call up. Max is in the exact same boat as Walker and Kaelen. December 2027 guys. 

It shows a willingness for teams to make those type of contract purchases in the face of the CBA. 

 

Other teams. 

[HarmonK03]

Just now, Riverbrian said:

I missed that.

So with the Gray call up. We are down to? Ross? Morrissette? 

Keaschall back to the infield? 

Acquiring an infielder at the deadline? 

Culpepper should be the next one up.  If he needs more time after being on the IL, I would give Ross a shot.  It would at least improve our athleticism.

[Riverbrian]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So if you think it likely he struggle his first year, and you want to be competitive next year..... You call him up this year.

I don't think anything likely? He could destroy the baseball, completely fail or somewhere in between. 

My concern is the future cost?  

Unless someone can tell me how his 40 and 26 man spot works with the new CBA. Explains to me how there is no danger of spending a year of service time golfing in 2027 and no danger of lowering the service time required before free agency. I'm not going to be totally comfortable.  

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I don't think anything likely? He could destroy the baseball, completely fail or somewhere in between. 

My concern is the future cost?  

Unless someone can tell me how his 40 and 26 man spot works with the new CBA. Explains to me how there is no danger of spending a year of service time golfing in 2027 and no danger of lowering the service time required before free agency. I'm not going to be totally comfortable.  

I refuse to make decisions based on a possible lockout. Is every other team wrong for bringing up rookies? Do we think the twins are smarter than all of them? I don't. 

[DocBauer]

Granted Gray is an uninspiring choice. And I'm not a fan of it. But was there a good choice? Really?

Rodriguez is the obvious #1 choice. But he's only been off the IL for a couple days now, and is rehabbing.

K-Pepper is obvious choice #2, but he's only been active for a couple of games and needs time to get in to a groove.

Where do Gonzalez or Mendez play with Bell at DH and Larnach in LF? Neither can play CF and both are still working on their defense. I suppose you could sit Roden and play one of them in RF instead, but is that their best use for now?

I can't wait for Jenkins. And I can see merit to giving him a shot. He's doing nothing wrong at St Paul. And he could even play CF. But his .800+ OPS in the International League doesn't scream "difference maker ready to roll". He's a real talent with a good future in front of him. And if the Twins wanted to give him a shot right now to get his feet wet, I wouldn't be upset or disappointed. But in theory, this is for 10 days. So I'm just not that worked up about it 

I think an INF makes sense, and I wish they had someone better than Gray to call up, but they don't. 

[mluebker]

34 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm all for younger players getting callups and opportunity when called up but it's also dangerous to make the assumption that he will immediately perform in the next couple months or it could be as little as the length of time that Byron spends on the DL. 

I figure every call-up is a gamble, but they keep calling up the same guys and getting the same results. Culpepper and/or Jenkins at least would be something they haven’t tried. And who knows, maybe the vote of confidence is just the catalyst those guys need. Heck, even if they turn out to be streaky and have confidence issues like Royce Lewis, at least that’s an interesting team on the field.

[HarmonK03]

2 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

But his .800+ OPS in the International League

I keep asking this question, but if OPS is the criteria what does the number have to be.  Just for reference, Max Clark's OPS is .802 in the same league.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Compared to what Tristan Gray is doing Jenkins is Babe Ruth.  

We've seen Gray.  He's a net negative performer both offensively and defensively.  Adding him makes the team incrementally worse.  

"Jenkins hasn't been exceptional so it's better to call up a player who has been significantly worse" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  

We don't know what Jenkins will do.  I'm fairly confident it will be better that what we know Gray will do.  

Gray is going to get a handful of at-bats until Buxton returns. He will mostly sit on the bench.

[arby58]

2 hours ago, arby58 said:

Regardless, when you go 0 for 16, you’ve had your chance. Grab a bat and get a hit or don’t. There’s no crying in baseball.

Half of his 16 outs were Ks.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I refuse to make decisions based on a possible lockout. Is every other team wrong for bringing up rookies? Do we think the twins are smarter than all of them? I don't. 

Rookies will always have to be called up. Are they on the 40 man or not when they are called up?

I'd have to research it. I don't know the answer at this moment but the question is. How many players have had their contract purchased this season? 

And I'll apply a filter to that. Of those that were. How many were top 100 prospects? The Fedko type players  don't matter because they won't be long term considerations. 

Clark and Snelling of the top of my head. Pratt with Milwaukee would have been another but they signed him to an 8 year deal. 

I'd be happy if the Twins want to sign Jenkins and Culpepper to 8 year deals for 50 to 60 million to buy out a couple of extra deals. That changes this discussion.   

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Rookies will always have to be called up. Are they on the 40 man or not when they are called up?

I'd have to research it. I don't know the answer at this moment but the question is. How many players have had their contract purchased this season? 

And I'll apply a filter to that. Of those that were. How many were top 100 prospects? The Fedko type players  don't matter because they won't be long term considerations. 

Clark and Snelling of the top of my head. Pratt with Milwaukee would have been another but they signed him to an 8 year deal. 

I'd be happy if the Twins want to sign Jenkins and Culpepper to 8 year deals for 50 to 60 million to buy out a couple of extra deals. That changes this discussion.   

I mean, that's two right there. 

Look, if they are trying to win, service time be damned. But they have three catchers and Gray on this roster. They clearly aren't close to going for it. Just sell, of that's the case and be honest with themselves. 

[tony&rodney]

32 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm heartened by the Max Clark call up. Max is in the exact same boat as Walker and Kaelen. December 2027 guys. 

It shows a willingness for teams to make those type of contract purchases in the face of the CBA. 

 

I really doubt that GMs are keeping players in the minor leagues because the CBA might change. 

[Riverbrian]

10 minutes ago, mluebker said:

I figure every call-up is a gamble, but they keep calling up the same guys and getting the same results. Culpepper and/or Jenkins at least would be something they haven’t tried. And who knows, maybe the vote of confidence is just the catalyst those guys need. Heck, even if they turn out to be streaky and have confidence issues like Royce Lewis, at least that’s an interesting team on the field.

I'm not afraid of youth. 

I watched Julien and Wallner nearly carry the team in 2024. Only to flame out later. I'll take an Evan Carter type boost to the 2026 if it happens and 2027 we will deal with later if they flame out. 

I'm all about exposure to MLB pitching and putting it in the bank. 

My concern is strictly... if it costs us two years of service time to make the move now... is it worth it? IF options are reduced? Is it still worth it? 

Some have no problem with that or don't think it would happen. I'd like someone to explain to me how I have nothing to worry about in that regard. 

And I swear to all that's holy. If they call up Jenkins to face right handers only Or Culpepper to face right handers only. Then I am absolutely against it... regardless if there is no potential service time adjustments made in the next CBA.  

 

[Nalinski]

Very odd decision......very odd.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I really doubt that GMs are keeping players in the minor leagues because the CBA might change. 

Maybe... I can't argue your point because I have no way of knowing.

However,  there seems to be quite a longer list of big prospect contract purchases in 2025 compared to 2026. Roman Anthony and Meyer,  Nick Kurtz, Misiorowski, Caglione and Jensen, Baldwin, Shaw, Basallo, Teel, Burns and Stewart, Dollander, Cam Smith.

I still got more research to do. But... I'll complete it eventually.  

 

[Woof Bronzer]

15 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Gray is going to get a handful of at-bats until Buxton returns. He will mostly sit on the bench.

Right and if the Twins are seriously going to make a playoff push, how does that help this team?

All the conversation is around the trade market.  There's another way the Twins can improve their team and it won't cost them a thing!  Try out some young guys.  This is an old, bad lineup.  The risk that playing some guys who may not bet 100% polished and ready is going to tank an otherwise successful season is so, so low... No guarantee about anything, it could flame out and they miss the playoffs.  Oh well, if the season ended today they'd miss the playoffs too. 

I'm getting more and more "half measure" vibes around the deadline...the Twins are going to nibble at a couple relievers, hold on to their assets, and that's it.  The absolute worst thing they could do in my opinion.  

Commit to SOMETHING.  Make a decision, and do everything to follow through on it.  Either really, seriously push for the playoffs and worry about the future when it comes, or commit to completing the rebuild, punt on an unknown 2027, and say we're winning the dang AL in 2028.  

Calling up Gray is such a passive move.  If the Twins truly feel like he's the best they can do then just give up on the season and sell.

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Maybe... I can't argue your point because I have no way of knowing.

However,  there seems to be quite a longer list of big prospect contract purchases in 2025 compared to 2026. Roman Anthony and Meyer,  Nick Kurtz, Misiorowski, Caglione and Jensen, Baldwin, Shaw, Basallo, Teel, Burns and Stewart, Dollander, Cam Smith.

I still got more research to do. But... I'll complete it eventually.  

 

Don't we want the Twins to be in that boat? I don't think they've done pre-arb extensions with ANYONE since Kepler and Polanco, let alone 1st year contract extensions.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, mluebker said:

Does he actually own a fielder’s glove?

If he's wearing one, it immediately becomes not one.

[LA Vikes Fan]

2 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

Based on that then Roden should be sent down.  He can't hit .200 in almost 200 plate appearances.  Per this comment he has had his chance as well.

Come on guys, this isn't AYSO soccer where every player has to be treated the same and we all get participation medals. The organization sees Roden and Fedko entirely differently as players. They see Roden as a potential MLB regular so he is getting a long look. His Statcast page suggests that there may be something there. That look may be close to the end and will certainly be over by the end of the season. The organization sees Fedko as organizational filler, a guy with an undistinguished track record who blossomed into a good but not elite AAA player at age 25 or 26 for about season's worth of games, but not as a guy likely to develop into an MLB caliber player. He got a brief shot to see how he looked in case they were wrong. He looked awful even when he was playing more regularly, often simply overpowered by MLB pitching. His shot confirmed their initial evaluation so he got sent back. Hopefully they will trade him to another organization so he can get another chance, or he will become a minor-league FA and move to another organization and get another shot. This this isn't because of anything the manager did or didn't do. He got a shorter leash on his opportunity because he has less of a track record and the organization evaluated him less favorably.

Guys, let's remember that the job of an MLB manager is to win games. He shouldn't be asked to give ABs to a guy who is regularly getting overpowered by MLB pitching in the hope that he will develop in the future unless the organization instructs him that that's his role because the team is in full on rebuild. We aren't. Fedko got his shot, was found wanting, and is now in AAA hoping he gets a second shot or a trade so he can get a shot on another team. That's the way baseball works in a competent organization, and that's the way it should work.

[farmerguychris]

I would have called up G. Gonzales. He's already been here once, plays the OF, and is already on the 40 man.  Jenkins would have to be added.

Another idea- Lets make a call on catcher.  Are we trading Jeffers - then lets do it.  Might open another spot depending on who we get in return- no need for a 3rd catcher.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I think you're going to make a call on a Catcher this week. There's a very interesting article on this site by Greg Masterson about group interview he was involved in with Derek Falvey talking about how the trade deadline works. It helps me understand why most of the deals don't go down until Sunday even though I think or thought that it made more sense to do things sooner.

I think they'll make a move Sunday regarding the catching but I less and less think it will involve trading Ryan Jeffers. I think they may keep him and either trade Caratini or try to slip Alex Jackson through waivers. I think they are considering just keeping all three by putting Jeffers behind the plate 60% of the time and at DH 20% of the time to get his bat in the lineup, playing Caratini at C 30% of the time and first base 30% of the time, with Alex Jackson paying maybe twice a week, once behind the plate and once at 1B. I think they're finding that arrangement just doesn't work when you have a full-time DH like Josh Bell but he's hard to trade because he doesn't have much value and because what you trade him, you just lost one of your middle of the order bats and you don't have a replacement. Lisa and I try to think it through, all the roads pint to either trading Caratini or trying to sneak Jackson to AAA somehow.

[Mike Sixel]

I too think they deal Caratini because they won't admit to themselves how good they are, and think they can win. 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I missed that.

So with the Gray call up. We are down to? Ross? Morrissette? 

Keaschall back to the infield? 

Acquiring an infielder at the deadline? 

Arcia is sitting at home waiting for a phone call 

[DJL44]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I too think they deal Caratini because they won't admit to themselves how good they are, and think they can win. 

Thats fine. I am tempted to sell both Jeffers and Caratini 

[HarmonK03]

35 minutes ago, LA Vikes Fan said:

Come on guys, this isn't AYSO soccer where every player has to be treated the same and we all get participation medals. The organization sees Roden and Fedko entirely differently as players. They see Roden as a potential MLB regular so he is getting a long look. His Statcast page suggests that there may be something there. That look may be close to the end and will certainly be over by the end of the season. The organization sees Fedko as organizational filler, a guy with an undistinguished track record who blossomed into a good but not elite AAA player at age 25 or 26 for about season's worth of games, but not as a guy likely to develop into an MLB caliber player. He got a brief shot to see how he looked in case they were wrong. He looked awful even when he was playing more regularly, often simply overpowered by MLB pitching. His shot confirmed their initial evaluation so he got sent back. Hopefully they will trade him to another organization so he can get another chance, or he will become a minor-league FA and move to another organization and get another shot. This this isn't because of anything the manager did or didn't do. He got a shorter leash on his opportunity because he has less of a track record and the organization evaluated him less favorably.

Guys, let's remember that the job of an MLB manager is to win games. He shouldn't be asked to give ABs to a guy who is regularly getting overpowered by MLB pitching in the hope that he will develop in the future unless the organization instructs him that that's his role because the team is in full on rebuild. We aren't. Fedko got his shot, was found wanting, and is now in AAA hoping he gets a second shot or a trade so he can get a shot on another team. That's the way baseball works in a competent organization, and that's the way it should work.

Well Fedko didn't really get a shot, so I disagree there, what he would do with it, who knows.  I don't really care about the Statcast page because Roden hasn't shown anything yet in 3 different stints in the major leagues.  

Yet this organization keeps giving Gray a shot who they have nothing invested in vs. someone that they have brought up through their organization and have an investment.  Even giving Kriedler a shot when he was hitting .133 before the season started.  And don't forget this is the organization that thought Outman was a major league player so I may question their evaluation qualities a little bit.