Twins Could Get Creative by Shopping 3 Former Top Prospects at the MLB Trade Deadline

[gman]

I would look to trade all three for a high powered relief pitcher from double or triple A. Let the pitching development group look at making the pitcher or pitchers into 6th inning pitchers.

I'd also be listening if someone brought up Correa's name. Admittedly I've never been a fan and his contract is really a boat anchor. Maybe a new owner will have more bucks to spread around and make this closer to a contending team. Not just for the division crown.

[DJL44]

Who’s buying on these players? Not a contender, and that’s who is shopping. I saw Julien mentioned as a bargain pickup for the Astros but otherwise a contender is going to want good players instead.

[jorgenswest]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'll ask again, where do you see Miranda or Julien ever getting a shot in MN again? Also, you want to use two 40 man spots on them next year?

Would you be OK with moving the 6 expiring contracts and then giving a shot to these three? I certainly would for Martin and Julien. I have lost trust in the management. I also think that at least two of the three will have to get a shot if the management does the most important job of getting a good return for the expiring contracts.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Who’s buying on these players? Not a contender, and that’s who is shopping. I saw Julien mentioned as a bargain pickup for the Astros but otherwise a contender is going to want good players instead.

I'd be looking for a team with a failed starter on the 40 man, who wants to see if they can fix Julien or Miranda......a challenge trade for both. Frankly, it is hard to see any of these three getting dealt. But it is just a discussion board....so I'm discussing. I guess.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, jorgenswest said:

Would you be OK with moving the 6 expiring contracts and then giving a shot to these three? I certainly would for Martin and Julien. I have lost trust in the management. I also think that at least two of the three will have to get a shot if the management does the most important job of getting a good return for the expiring contracts.

yes, but this thread isn't about those! Other than saying you want to keep the, but I just don't see a path for Julien or Miranda given what is in the minors and majors (maybe first? but I put Keaschell there for at least the rest of this year).

[Parfigliano]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Just think of the return the team could have gotten had they sold them at their peaks? Had then been able to identify the underlying issues with these players early and got out from under them, they might have transformed the entire franchise.

The Twins traded CEH and Steer for Mahle while at that point Miranda was crushing it; they probably get Luis Castillo if they move Miranda instead.

This team has a problem either in identifying their players weaknesses, or coaching getting the most out of them.

They have a huge problem with both.

[arby58]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

What some people think what creative is, is crazy. Trading Miranda, Julien or Martin is stupid & sad. Stupid because you won't get anything for them. Julien should have been traded when he was worth something. Sad because they had a lot of promise but were mismanaged. Miranda wasn't given the opportunity he deserved at 1B to keep him healthy & prosperous; now he's broken. Martin forced at SS, then have him learn CF & LF at the MLB level. MN needs someone fixed at 2B to stabilize the 2B/SS teamwork with Correa. Having a new 2Bman every game does nothing for the continuity there. 2B is Martin's best position & he's the best glove there. Put him there & keep him there. Put Keaschall at 1B/DH until he's 100%. There I said it, go ahead & smash the thumbs down icon.

You only made a case for keeping Martin - he of the -1.0 WAR and 88+ OPS last year. Here's a crazy idea: put Clemens at 2B, keep him there, and get somebody to play 1B. Clemens has a +9 defensive runs saved at 2B this year, while Martin was 0 last year. Meanwhile, Clemens is 1.1 WAR and 112 OPS+ this year.  He also has 12 HRs in 161 at bats. In 233 ABs last year, Martin hit 1 HR.

Meanwhile, both Julien and Miranda are out of options - why would anybody trade for a couple of AAA players at this point in the season?

[Parfigliano]

11 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ya, this is a real issue......but I'm trying not to say "fire the FO and manager" every post!

It's hard not to say that every post.

[Brett]

54 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

That's not what we saw in the 2024. He looks like a good athlete that should be a decent fielder, but was just flat out bad. And it seems like the Twins still believe that assessment. If he were a decent fielder he would have been on the major league roster instead of keeping Clemens around. Or Keirsey lol. 

 

 

I don’t understand why Keirsey is on the roster over Martin. I know the base stealing and a few innings of superior outfield defense part, but his bat is way under par.

Maybe the 26th man role doesn’t mean as much when you’re not on track for the playoffs.

[Twinsrtheworst]

22 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

What some people think what creative is, is crazy. Trading Miranda, Julien or Martin is stupid & sad. Stupid because you won't get anything for them. Julien should have been traded when he was worth something. Sad because they had a lot of promise but were mismanaged. Miranda wasn't given the opportunity he deserved at 1B to keep him healthy & prosperous; now he's broken. Martin forced at SS, then have him learn CF & LF at the MLB level. MN needs someone fixed at 2B to stabilize the 2B/SS teamwork with Correa. Having a new 2Bman every game does nothing for the continuity there. 2B is Martin's best position & he's the best glove there. Put him there & keep him there. Put Keaschall at 1B/DH until he's 100%. There I said it, go ahead & smash the thumbs down icon.

Has it occurred to you with your 20/20 hindsight vision, it’s most likely no other team was interested in Julien even when he was going good.  Just because he should have been traded Does Not mean there was a team that would have given anything for him…. They saw him for who he is.  Time to put those non helpful hindsight glasses away.  Or I guess just keep kicking that dead horse.

[NYCTK]

29 minutes ago, arby58 said:

I agree with your assessment of Kiersey, but Clemens has been a nice bargain pick-up. He's third among the Twins position players with a 1.1 OPS (only trailing Buxton and Bader), has an .816 OPS and 12 HRs in just 161 AB. Those are keeper stats.

He had a really great month, no doubt. And since then he's reverted to being a replacement level player. If Martin were healthy at the time, Clemens wouldn't have been claimed, and if Martin were a decent fielder I don't think Clemens would have stayed on the roster. His sub 700 OPS in his last 120 PAs isn't really unexpected nor helpful. 

He's just good enough to be a major leaguer, but that could change within a week's time. If he's a Twin against next season I would expect them to be a sub 500 team. 

[HerbieFan]

These three simply typify the organization's inability to develop positional players/hitters.  Wallner, Lewis, Lee.......the list goes on and on

[In My La Z boy]

9 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Has it occurred to you with your 20/20 hindsight vision, it’s most likely no other team was interested in Julien even when he was going good.  Just because he should have been traded Does Not mean there was a team that would have given anything for him…. They saw him for who he is.  Time to put those non helpful hindsight glasses away.  Or I guess just keep kicking that dead horse.

The dead horse pile to kick keeps getting bigger sadly. Imagine giving LF to Rooker a few years ago and just putting up with his learning curve? Why we sign Vets to one year deals (as though we're going to be competitive) instead of giving our kids a chance? This years signings were better than the last 2 albeit. Trade all 3, Castro, Bader & France and let some kids play who will still be here next year. We'll get a whole lot more for those 3 than for Julien, Miranda and Martin.

[NYCTK]

17 minutes ago, Brett said:

I don’t understand why Keirsey is on the roster over Martin. I know the base stealing and a few innings of superior outfield defense part, but his bat is way under par.

Maybe the 26th man role doesn’t mean as much when you’re not on track for the playoffs.

It really is incredible roster construction to carry for nearly the entire season a player that the manager recognizes should never hold a bat.

Not good, but still, incredible. 

DaShawn so bad that I'm a massive fan. Each of his hapless ABs is must watch television. 

[NYCTK]

16 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Has it occurred to you with your 20/20 hindsight vision, it’s most likely no other team was interested in Julien even when he was going good.  Just because he should have been traded Does Not mean there was a team that would have given anything for him…. They saw him for who he is.  Time to put those non helpful hindsight glasses away.  Or I guess just keep kicking that dead horse.

Speaking of hindsight...the Twins chose Matt LeCroy over David Ortiz lol. 

Anyways, what were we talking about again? 

[arby58]

3 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

He had a really great month, no doubt. And since then he's reverted to being a replacement level player. If Martin were healthy at the time, Clemens wouldn't have been claimed, and if Martin were a decent fielder I don't think Clemens would have stayed on the roster. His sub 700 OPS in his last 120 PAs isn't really unexpected nor helpful. 

He had a great May, a not so great June, but he has bounced back and had a pretty decent July. He entered July with a .774 OPS and a .472 Slugging percentage on the year. In July, he has raised his OPS to .792 and his slugging percentage to .503. He also has 3 HR and 12 RBIs. I seem to recall you making this post awhile back - maybe you need to refresh your numbers and your opinion? If the Twins had more players with his stats, their offense would look a lot better.

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, arby58 said:

He had a great May, a not so great June, but he has bounced back and had a pretty decent July. He entered July with a .774 OPS and a .472 Slugging percentage on the year. In July, he has raised his OPS to .792 and his slugging percentage to .503. He also has 3 HR and 12 RBIs. I seem to recall you making this post awhile back - maybe you need to refresh your numbers and your opinion? If the Twins had more players with his stats, their offense would look a lot better.

I'm happy for the guy, but don't have any disillusionment about him being a savior. Best case scenario, he goes into the season next year gets 450-500 PAs, and comes out a 1.0-1.5 WAR player. Fine player. 

I take him over Martin since he's proven way more capable with the glove. But I won't be purchasing a Clemens jersey anytime soon. He's the exact same player that was DFAd by the Phillies and I can promise you they don't miss him. 

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

But I won't be purchasing a Clemens jersey anytime soon. 

I sat behind two Twins fans at the Rockies game. One lady had a Clemens jersey and the other had a Keirsey jersey. I assumed they were related to the players.

[arby58]

17 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I'm happy for the guy, but don't have any disillusionment about him being a savior. Best case scenario, he goes into the season next year gets 450-500 PAs, and comes out a 1.0-1.5 WAR player. Fine player. 

I take him over Martin since he's proven way more capable with the glove. But I won't be purchasing a Clemens jersey anytime soon. He's the exact same player that was DFAd by the Phillies and I can promise you they don't miss him. 

This reminds me that yesterday there was a piece on Trade Rumors about the Twins Controllable Pitchers. A Phillies trade was proposed, and a Philliies fan's remark was 'you kinda owe us one on Kody Clemens haha.'

[Doctor Gast]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'll ask again, where do you see Miranda or Julien ever getting a shot in MN again? Also, you want to use two 40 man spots on them next year?

You have a good point. Probably not. Although I wouldn't actively shop them but if a team needing a 1B/2B/ 3Bman & would want them thrown in a deal, I'd say fine because they shouldn't or won't get a shot in MN. For their sake, I'd say yes. Unfortunately, Miranda needs a change of scenery. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Doctor Gast said:

You have a good point. Probably not. Although I wouldn't actively shop them but if a team needing a 1B/2B/ 3Bman & would want them thrown in a deal, I'd say fine because they shouldn't or won't get a shot in MN. For their sake, I'd say yes. Unfortunately, Miranda needs a change of scenery. 

Ya, I'm not thrilled neither worked, and I don't like how they handled either.....but at this point I just think they need to move on. Which means they won't, and will get nothing for them.....or they'll sit in AAA giving them nothing but blocking others from moving up.....(can you tell I'm down on the FO?)

[Twinsrtheworst]

1 hour ago, In My La Z boy said:

The dead horse pile to kick keeps getting bigger sadly. Imagine giving LF to Rooker a few years ago and just putting up with his learning curve? Why we sign Vets to one year deals (as though we're going to be competitive) instead of giving our kids a chance? This years signings were better than the last 2 albeit. Trade all 3, Castro, Bader & France and let some kids play who will still be here next year. We'll get a whole lot more for those 3 than for Julien, Miranda and Martin.

Agree with trading the rentals and see what we can get.  What kids in the system do we let play?  Honestly asking.  As for Rooker, the only team that saw what he could become was the A’s.  And they had been bad for awhile and in a position to see if he could stick.  That being said yes still a loss by the Twins.  I just don’t recall anybody on here claiming he was going to be a loss.  It’s much easier to see this as a miss by us after the fact.

[In My La Z boy]

5 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Agree with trading the rentals and see what we can get.  What kids in the system do we let play?  Honestly asking.  As for Rooker, the only team that saw what he could become was the A’s.  And they had been bad for awhile and in a position to see if he could stick.  That being said yes still a loss by the Twins.  I just don’t recall anybody on here claiming he was going to be a loss.  It’s much easier to see this as a miss by us after the fact.

I would hope Falvey would see things we don't see. 
There are 3 kids in AAA that should be playing instead of the 3 expiring vet contracts we have now in Bader, Castro and France. I'd start there. We were fixated on Kirilloff because we get fixated on Lefty's. Kirilloff is why they let Rooker go. Wrong choice. And given we had Larnach and Wallner coming that always made no sense to me. How many Left-handed corner outfielders do you need?

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Agree with trading the rentals and see what we can get.  What kids in the system do we let play?  Honestly asking.  As for Rooker, the only team that saw what he could become was the A’s.  And they had been bad for awhile and in a position to see if he could stick.  That being said yes still a loss by the Twins.  I just don’t recall anybody on here claiming he was going to be a loss.  It’s much easier to see this as a miss by us after the fact.

Martin should be here now, over Kiersey or Castro when traded.

Anyone over France. could be you for all I care (I'd put Keaschell there right now and for the rest of the year). I'd also consider Sabato and just see if he actually figured it out this year (aka, Rooker). 

Bader? I guess Martin, but I'd consider Gonzalez. Get his feet wet for next year, so he's not a rookie next year. 

The RPs? I'd probably put some random SP from the minors in there that isn't one of the top 4-6 guys in the minors that might be starters. 

 

[miller761]

You have to do something with these players. The next level of prospects will be ready for AAA next year. You need to have those  spots open for those players to play.

[Twinsrtheworst]

29 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Martin should be here now, over Kiersey or Castro when traded.

Anyone over France. could be you for all I care (I'd put Keaschell there right now and for the rest of the year). I'd also consider Sabato and just see if he actually figured it out this year (aka, Rooker). 

 

Bader? I guess Martin, but I'd consider Gonzalez. Get his feet wet for next year, so he's not a rookie next year. 

The RPs? I'd probably put some random SP from the minors in there that isn't one of the top 4-6 guys in the minors that might be starters. 

 

I see we’re your coming from.  But in my opinion if you are starting Sabato, Martin, and Keaschell now…. And they show minimal, which is what should be expected, then do we run em out there again next year?  If they tank which is possible, then I guess what’s that telling to any of our vets.  I guess I’m just saying there are unintended consequences to everything. I’m not saying you are wrong by any means.  Just that things can go from bad to unrecoverable quickly.  Though I believe Keaschell is legit.

[jkcarew]

Teams buying at the deadline aren’t looking for guys that can’t make the active roster for a team like the Twins.

[Twinsrtheworst]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

Speaking of hindsight...the Twins chose Matt LeCroy over David Ortiz lol. 

Anyways, what were we talking about again? 

Hey, his son is in the Red Sox org.  Not a rated prospect from what I know.  But maybe we steal him before he busts out.  Lil payback 🙂

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, se7799 said:

I see we’re your coming from.  But in my opinion if you are starting Sabato, Martin, and Keaschell now…. And they show minimal, which is what should be expected, then do we run em out there again next year?  If they tank which is possible, then I guess what’s that telling to any of our vets.  I guess I’m just saying there are unintended consequences to everything. I’m not saying you are wrong by any means.  Just that things can go from bad to unrecoverable quickly.

I mean, if they tank next year what do you do? At some point, you have to play your guys. This is a lost year, if not now, when?

100% Martin and Keaschell are up again this year, most likely after the deadline. Sabato and Gonzalez? probably not by this FO....but by me? Yes.

[Twinsrtheworst]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I mean, if they tank next year what do you do? At some point, you have to play your guys. This is a lost year, if not now, when?

100% Martin and Keaschell are up again this year, most likely after the deadline. Sabato and Gonzalez? probably not by this FO....but by me? Yes.

Yes, I’m hoping to see Keaschell again this year.  Would love to see Gonzo as well.  I guess I just wish we had some exciting replacements ready now, like Emma and Jenk. For me anyways I feel like I kinda know what Martin is and don’t have a ton of hope in Sabato. II guess I’m turning from optimism to being pessimistic about things.  Anyway thanks for the chat and responses.