BREAKING: Twins Agree to One-Year Deal With Outfielder Harrison Bader

[KirbyDome89]

6 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Considering Larnach's OPS against LHP is 570 and Wallner's is 510 both with mediocre to bad defense, maybe insurance is good. One or both of them could obviously improve on those numbers, but to bet on BOTH of them succeeding against LHP in 2025 is a good recipe for disaster. 

 

Bader had a .612 OPS vs LHP last season. Maybe he improves this year, but banking on him doesn't seem to be any less of a gamble. 

I'm probably down on Wallner more than most around here, but I'd rather see whether he can hit LHP at a level close to his late minors stint than throw ABs at Bader. 

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

If Larnach sucks, sure. And when Wallner goes through another stretch like he did last year with a 37% K rate and a 180 average, yeah, maybe Bader gets playing time then too. 

Having a competent 4th OF is good. How are fans trying to spin this as a bad thing? 

Austin Martin just lost playing time. This is a time for celebration! 

This move very well could move Larnach from LF to the vacated DH spot with Bader taking LF. Nothing in this regime's history suggests Bader will be the 4th OF. That's the point. He will likely end up with top 5-8 PAs on this team. Or maybe he'll be 9th like Margot was. That's why we don't like signings like this. Because he's not going to be the 4th outfielder, he's going to get starter level PAs.

[NYCTK]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

This move very well could move Larnach from LF to the vacated DH spot with Bader taking LF. Nothing in this regime's history suggests Bader will be the 4th OF. That's the point. He will likely end up with top 5-8 PAs on this team. Or maybe he'll be 9th like Margot was. That's why we don't like signings like this. Because he's not going to be the 4th outfielder, he's going to get starter level PAs.

...because the Twins OF was really, really poorly constructed as of this morning. 

How any Twins fan is upset at the team improving is wild. 

[chpettit19]

Just now, NYCTK said:

...because the Twins OF was really, really poorly constructed as of this morning. 

How any Twins fan is upset at the team improving is wild. 

How any baseball fan could think Harrison Bader getting starter level PAs is a good thing for their team is wild.

[Mark G]

The only thing I can add right now is we must be pretty desparate for news......ANY news......for 121 comments to roll in in just two hours about a ,236 hitting outfielder.  Spring training can't get here fast enough.  🤭

[NYCTK]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

How any baseball fan could think Harrison Bader getting starter level PAs is a good thing for their team is wild.

This is a great response if you think Bader was signed to be the DH. 

[chpettit19]

Just now, NYCTK said:

This is a great response if you think Bader was signed to be the DH. 

He was the 32nd best hitting CFer with at least 200 PAs in baseball last year. Not outfielder, center fielder. Would've been the 39th best hitting LFer with at least 200 PAs. 51st best RFer. 102nd best hitting outfielder in baseball. 

He wasn't a starting level hitter at any outfield position. So, no, it doesn't take him being a DH to feel that way. His defense makes him a wonderful 4th outfielder. But he's not a starting caliber outfielder on a contending team. He's going to be a starting outfielder for the Twins. That isn't good.

[NYCTK]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

He was the 32nd best hitting CFer with at least 200 PAs in baseball last year. Not outfielder, center fielder. Would've been the 39th best hitting LFer with at least 200 PAs. 51st best RFer. 102nd best hitting outfielder in baseball. 

He wasn't a starting level hitter at any outfield position. So, no, it doesn't take him being a DH to feel that way. His defense makes him a wonderful 4th outfielder. But he's not a starting caliber outfielder on a contending team. He's going to be a starting outfielder for the Twins. That isn't good.

Good thing he's the 4th OF. 

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Good thing he's the 4th OF. 

Yeah, just like Margot was last year, except he ended up with the 9th most PAs on the team. That's the point. He won't get 4th OFer playing time, he'll get starter playing time.

This has become an unproductive conversation. I'm glad you're excited about Bader. I hope he lives up to your hopes.

[NYCTK]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, just like Margot was last year, except he ended up with the 9th most PAs on the. That's the point. He won't get 4th OFer playing time, he'll get starter playing time.

This has become an unproductive conversation. I'm glad you're excited about Bader. I hope he lives up to your hopes.

That's on the other players and the manager. Margot was very clearly the 4th OF going into the season. He didn't even start in the OF until game 8. 

Can Bader end up playing more than Buxton? Yes, very obviously, and we all know why. But that doesn't make Bader the #1 CF. That's not how depth charts work. 

[JD-TWINS]

41 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Apologies if this is a repeat from someone else's comments -- I scanned pretty quickly. 

• Michael A Taylor (career 80 OPS+) was coming off a 90 OPS+ season as a 31-year-old when he came with an excellent defensive reputation. 
• Harrison Bader (career 91 OPS+) is coming off an 86 OPS+ as a 30-year-old as he comes with an excellent defensive reputation. 

If there's reason to believe that Bader will do what Taylor did, it's a great fit for the roster.

 

A nice, optimistic view!! ……as with most signings, Fingers crossed!

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

That's on the other players and the manager. Margot was very clearly the 4th OF going into the season. He didn't even start in the OF until game 8. 

Can Bader end up playing more than Buxton? Yes, very obviously, and we all know why. But that doesn't make Bader the #1 CF. That's not how depth charts work. 

And I don't care about the paper depth chart. I care about the real-world happenings. And, as I said, even on the paper depth chart he's the starting LFer right now, not the 4th OFer. Unless you think Lee, Julien, Martin, Keirsey, Helman, or Rodriguez are taking his spot in the starting 9. 

The best bet for the opening day lineup is:
C- Jeffers
1B- Miranda
2B- Castro
3B- Lewis
SS- Correa
LF- Bader
CF- Buxton
RF- Wallner
DH- Larnach

Harrison Bader is a starter for the MN Twins, as of right now. 

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

How any baseball fan could think Harrison Bader getting starter level PAs is a good thing for their team is wild.

Beats the hell out of Austin Martin or Michael Helman getting starter level PAs.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Beats the hell out of Austin Martin or Michael Helman getting starter level PAs.

And I'd start Emma instead of all of them. But I'd rather be able to cycle through Martin, Helman, Keirsey, Lee, and Julien (not to mention Eeles, Keaschall, etc.) than be stuck with Bader all year. When none of the options are good, I'd much rather have more options.

[Riverbrian]

The defensive minded posters will be happy. 

He will be rostered as a short side handcuff to Larnach or Wallner. Martin will probably be the short side handcuff to either Larnach or Wallner. We've got our match and the process continues. Bader will also be the primary CF when Buxton gets hurt and he will get hurt. 

What does this mean?

It means that Bader is going to face more right handed pitching than left handed pitching. Bank on it. 

It also means that when Emma is called up. Bader is going to face left handed pitching and Emma won't. Bank on it. 

It was exactly what I didn't want them to do but I knew it was exactly what they would do. 

6.25 Million spent and it will all but gaurentee that we will have to spend 6 or 7 million on his replacement next year. 

Will the Circle... Be Unbroken. By and By Lord By and By.   

 

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And I'd start Emma instead of all of them. But I'd rather be able to cycle through Martin, Helman, Keirsey, Lee, and Julien (not to mention Eeles, Keaschall, etc.) than be stuck with Bader all year. When none of the options are good, I'd much rather have more options.

You and I both know... Emma's 2025 fate has been sealed. You see it... The Rally Goat sees it, Doc Bauer sees it. Other's don't. Other's seem to think that Emma is immune to this left vs left thing. 

The signing of Bader which is not a surprise... all but guarantees that Emma will suffer the same fate of Wallner, Larnach, Kirilloff and Julien. Once you sign the right handed guy... he will take the AB's against left handed pitchers. You paid 6 million for him to be that guy. He gets Emma's AB's against left handed pitchers. 

I'll bet money with anyone but the Twins front office right now. 

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

And I'd start Emma instead of all of them. But I'd rather be able to cycle through Martin, Helman, Keirsey, Lee, and Julien than be stuck with Bader all year. When none of the options are good, I'd much rather have more options.

I think they would have cut Margot last year if Martin hadn't been so awful and Rodriguez hadn't missed the whole season to injury. I think they would have cut Farmer if Julien or Lee could have done anything right. The excessive playing time for Margot and Farmer is much more an indictment of how bad the other options were. The other options are still likely to be really bad, they're just a year older.

They still have all those players available to cycle through. They didn't cut everyone else on the roster when they added Bader. If they can't figure out which players deserve playing time, that's a problem with management, not with Bader.

Your argument is the team shouldn't try to improve the roster because their manager can't make good decisions about playing time. That's a very strong argument to fire the manager, not an argument to never acquire free agents.

[KirbyDome89]

16 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This is a great response if you think Bader was signed to be the DH. 

 

10 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Good thing he's the 4th OF. 

You said you want him getting starts vs LHP over Larnach and/or Wallner. He's undoubtedly going to be a mid game PH option because this team is Charlie Brown trying to kick a football when it comes to that game of cat & mouse. He's a late innings defensive replacement, and he's backing up one of the most fragile players in baseball. Unless you haven't actually watched this team for the last few years (which I doubt is the case) we can probably agree Bader isn't going to get a 4th OF type workload, right?

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You and I both know... Emma's 2025 fate has been sealed. You see it... The Rally Goat sees it, Doc Bauer sees it. Other's don't. Other's seem to think that Emma is immune to this left vs left thing. 

The signing of Bader which is not a surprise... all but guarantees that Emma will suffer the same fate of Wallner, Larnach, Kirilloff and Julien. Once you sign the right handed guy... he will take the AB's against left handed pitchers. You paid 6 million for him to be that guy. He gets Emma's AB's against left handed pitchers. 

I'll bet money with anyone but the Twins front office right now. 

It was always going to come and we were always going to despise it. I'm glad they added some defense, but Emma adds defense, too. They are who we thought they were.

[NYCTK]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And I don't care about the paper depth chart. I care about the real-world happenings. And, as I said, even on the paper depth chart he's the starting LFer right now, not the 4th OFer. Unless you think Lee, Julien, Martin, Keirsey, Helman, or Rodriguez are taking his spot in the starting 9. 

The best bet for the opening day lineup is:
C- Jeffers
1B- Miranda
2B- Castro
3B- Lewis
SS- Correa
LF- Bader
CF- Buxton
RF- Wallner
DH- Larnach

Harrison Bader is a starter for the MN Twins, as of right now. 

Even if he is, which I do not grant, this team is significantly improved from this morning. 

They had no CF backup for Buxton's inevitable 60 day IL trip, and now they do. 

And I'm not concerned about blocking a 22 year old player with a 30% K rate, less than 200 PAs above A+, and, what I believe to be, questionable CF defense. Not yet. We can talk again in June. 

[NYCTK]

4 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

 

You said you want him getting starts vs LHP over Larnach and/or Wallner. He's undoubtedly going to be a mid game PH option because this team is Charlie Brown trying to kick a football when it comes to that game of cat & mouse. He's a late innings defensive replacement, and he's backing up one of the most fragile players in baseball. Unless you haven't actually watched this team for the last few years (which I doubt is the case) we can probably agree Bader isn't going to get a 4th OF type workload, right?

We agree then. The Twins should fire Rocco. 

But this conversation is about Bader and how he improves the Twins. 

Yes, he should rotate in and spell relief for Larnach or Wallner against lefty starters. Probably a pretty frequent pinch runner for Larnach if we're being honest. And both those roles will make the team better. 

While his workload might exceed that of Buxton, that doesn't mean he's the starter over Buxton. It's a long season and you need a good 4th OF. Would you rather that workload go to Austin Martin??

 

[nicksaviking]

41 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

...because the Twins OF was really, really poorly constructed as of this morning. 

How any Twins fan is upset at the team improving is wild. 

We can have a difference of opinion, but you're just being stubborn if you refuse to recognize that half of us think that giving a guy who cannot hit 6M and a guaranteed roster spot, making it that much less flexible, is absolutely not improving the team. 

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I think they would have cut Margot last year if Martin hadn't been so awful and Rodriguez hadn't missed the whole season to injury. I think they would have cut Farmer if Julien or Lee could have done anything right. The excessive playing time for Margot and Farmer is much more an indictment of how bad the other options were. The other options are still likely to be really bad, they're just a year older.

They still have all those players available to cycle through. They didn't cut everyone else on the roster when they added Bader. If they can't figure out which players deserve playing time, that's a problem with management, not with Bader.

Your argument is the team shouldn't try to improve the roster because their manager can't make good decisions about playing time. That's a very strong argument to fire the manager, not an argument to never acquire free agents.

I don't think they would have cut him, because they didn't and Martin wasn't "awful" compared to Margot. Martin outplayed Margot last year. Neither could field, but Martin hit better. Better BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, more stolen bases, all of it. Martin was the clearly superior offensive player, and when neither option brings any value at all defensively the better offensive player feels like the pretty obvious choice. And they still didn't cut Margot.

I'm not disagreeing that it's a management problem. That is very much what it is. But the management is the same so I'd prefer they just don't bring in Bader because they know how it's going to go. It's not about Bader specifically, it's about the type of player they keep signing and using year after year. The names change the strategy doesn't. And it's the strategy I have a problem with. Bader is just this year's weapon in that strategy so he's the one we're discussing.

That isn't my argument. My argument is that I don't think Bader improves the team over the combination of the other players. And, no, obviously they didn't cut those guys, but they aren't going to sit Bader on the bench while they cycle through them. He's going to get the playing time. I hate their MLB strategies. It is 100% on Falvey and Rocco. And I've never said they shouldn't acquire free agents. Never. Not once. I said they shouldn't acquire multiple of these 2-8 million a year vets. I'd rather have them trade Paddack and Vazquez and pair that money with this Bader contract and get somebody like Alonso or Bregman for a year. I'd rather them sign Kim and Diaz than pay Vazquez and Bader or Vazquez and Paddack. It's not about not signing free agents. That isn't the argument at all. It's not spending millions on production your minimum salaried guys can (or should) produce and using the saved millions on an actual needle mover.

[TheLeviathan]

Can I both be ok with it and hate it at the same time?

We need more speed on this team.  We need a good defensive OF who can hit RH.  I think, in theory, this is the kind of player I could get behind.  

On the other hand....way more than I'd like to have spent, his LH platoon splits weren't great last year (though career wise they have been fine), and the only reason I even like it at all is how same-y our OF is.

This feels like getting roped in by the bar of low expectations and being ok to settle. 

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Even if he is, which I do not grant, this team is significantly improved from this morning. 

They had no CF backup for Buxton's inevitable 60 day IL trip, and now they do. 

And I'm not concerned about blocking a 22 year old player with a 30% K rate, less than 200 PAs above A+, and, what I believe to be, questionable CF defense. Not yet. We can talk again in June. 

Then give me the starting lineup. Lee starting at 2B and Castro in LF? Julien at 2B or DH so Castro is in LF or Larnach is? Come up with a different lineup that you want to honestly argue is what the starting lineup is going to look like as of this moment.

Keirsey can hit just as well as Bader and plays an average defense out there. Suggesting this "significantly" improves the team is suggesting that Bader's glove is so good this team is "significantly" better. Sorry, not buying that in the least.

And, sorry, your admittedly 1 highlight scouting report on Rodriguez's defense doesn't impress me. I'll go ahead and listen to all the scouting reports and the dozens of games I watched and say it's not questionable at all. He can field that position. He's not Bader or Buxton in his prime, but he's plenty good out there. And I don't care about the number of PAs he's had above A+. Michael Harris II had 196 before he debuted. Kyle Isbel skipped AA and AAA all together. Jackson Chourio essentially skipped AAA at the age of 20. Merrill had 211 at AA and skipped AAA to debut at a new position at the age of 20. He had a .782 OPS in AA. Chourio's was .780. Harris was much better at .878. Emma's was 1.100. And even if/when he debuts, they're now going to platoon him like they do with all the other young lefties which is going to slow his development. So, you don't have to be concerned, but I will be.

Glad we got that .650 OPS from Bader in the starting lineup to "significantly improve" the team! World Series here we come!

[mikelink45]

At least we are talking about actual players and actual events.  I enjoy that and all the angst over a 4th OF with some defensive and little offensive value.  Plus we keep talking about Martin and I do not think he will amount to anything. 

Lefthanded middle relief and 4th OF.  That is the big moves so far - get Cease and give us something to really talk about. 

[KirbyDome89]

12 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

We agree then. The Twins should fire Rocco. 

But this conversation is about Bader and how he improves the Twins. 

Yes, he should rotate in and spell relief for Larnach or Wallner against lefty starters. Probably a pretty frequent pinch runner for Larnach if we're being honest. And both those roles will make the team better. 

While his workload might exceed that of Buxton, that doesn't mean he's the starter over Buxton. It's a long season and you need a good 4th OF. Would you rather that workload go to Austin Martin??

 

We're arguing semantics now. 

As others have said, I'd rather this organization throw money and PAs at guys who have a shot at making an impact. Bader won't save your season, he likely doesn't even hold water, he's just a potentially slower leak without any upside or future. 

[NYCTK]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then give me the starting lineup. Lee starting at 2B and Castro in LF? Julien at 2B or DH so Castro is in LF or Larnach is?

No, I don't care to. The lineup is obviously fungible. 

But like I said, even if you believe he's the starting LF now (which I do not) this team is STILL improved from this morning. 

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Keirsey can hit just as well as Bader and plays an average defense out there.

So, worse than Bader. 

 

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

The defensive minded posters will be happy. 

He will be rostered as a short side handcuff to Larnach or Wallner. Martin will probably be the short side handcuff to either Larnach or Wallner. We've got our match and the process continues. Bader will also be the primary CF when Buxton gets hurt and he will get hurt. 

What does this mean?

It means that Bader is going to face more right handed pitching than left handed pitching. Bank on it. 

It also means that when Emma is called up. Bader is going to face left handed pitching and Emma won't. Bank on it. 

It was exactly what I didn't want them to do but I knew it was exactly what they would do. 

6.25 Million spent and it will all but gaurentee that will will have to spend 6 or 7 million on his replacement next year. 

Will the Circle... Be Unbroken. By and By Lord By and Bay.   

Who would you rather have rostered as the short-side platoon partner - Bader or Martin? We know they will roster someone for that role. I could find-and-replace Bader with Martin in your complaint and it would be just as valid. At least Bader can provide value by catching the ball.

Yes, it is disappointing that they insist on having this role. Why wouldn't we want them to improve the personnel they use for that role?

If Emmanuel Rodriguez can't play well enough in AAA to make management think he's better than Harrison Bader, then he's probably best served spending the whole season in AAA. I remember just how bad Buxton was in his first season when they pulled him up from Double-A.

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

He was the 32nd best hitting CFer with at least 200 PAs in baseball last year. Not outfielder, center fielder. Would've been the 39th best hitting LFer with at least 200 PAs. 51st best RFer. 102nd best hitting outfielder in baseball. 

He wasn't a starting level hitter at any outfield position. So, no, it doesn't take him being a DH to feel that way. His defense makes him a wonderful 4th outfielder. But he's not a starting caliber outfielder on a contending team. He's going to be a starting outfielder for the Twins. That isn't good.

That’s about exactly where 2023 Jurickson Profar ranked as well.  

We are due for some lightning in a bottle.  I like it, even if it seems a bit expensive.