Byron Buxton Proves Doubters Wrong with 2024 Performance

[NYCTK]

Articles like this, celebrating good as if it's great are due to the Twins Organization loser mentality that has permeated much of the fan base. And doing so is how ownership has been able to only bother to strive for good, not great, for 40 years. 

I'm happy for Buxton that he almost had a somewhat healthy good year. But I'm not celebrating him. And neither should anyone else if we're being honest. 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, LambchoP said:

Sorry, I really like Buck and love watching him, but I don't think he's proved anyone wrong. He still missed almost half the season, didn't hit even 20 home runs, and with his elite speed he doesn't even steal bases. If he can keep playing 100+ games, then he's worth the 15 million per season. But, since he is Mr Glass, the team will Always need a reliable backup center fielder. Not Castro or Martin, a real center fielder.

Whoa whoa whoa. What about superstar addition Margot? Have you already forgotten him?! 

[NYCTK]

24 minutes ago, ewen21 said:

Based on what?  We do know he walked out on his teammates in Rochester when after a miserable 2018 he was not called up.  We also know he had a couple of Twitter exchanges with Twins fans calling them clowns.

 

He is just a dude to me.  What makes in "such a good dude" to you?

This sort of fan behavior towards a Twins CF has already proven wrong. Puckett was such a good dude...and then we learned that was all fake. Even Torii, seemingly super nice dude...until he exposed his bigotries. 

Buxton MIGHT be a great dude. But we have no idea. 

[Mydaughterhastwins]

This may be the last TD article I ever read.

[ewen21]

13 minutes ago, Mydaughterhastwins said:

This may be the last TD article I ever read.

It won't be mine, but this is an anti-Twins fan article.

[ashbury]

There have been posters here who claim that Buxton simply isn't good - that he can't hit.  I presume they represent some significant portion of the fan base at large.  Last season's batting numbers (OPS in the low 700s though that's not necessarily the metric his detractors would select) were used to demonstrate this.  Responses that he was hobbled by injury were dismissed.

Buxton's 2024 pretty well disproves that point of view.  The man can hit, "when healthy."  His numbers this year would be an asset even as a corner outfielder.  As a CF, he's a difference maker.

It's the "when healthy" part that remains a legitimate negative.  It's great he managed 90+ games in CF for the first season in many.  That still leaves the team with the need for Plan B for 70 or so games.  And I have zero confidence that Buxton will play in more games than this, in 2025; indeed I would place the over-under line lower than that.

So this article goes too far in saying Buxton proved the doubters wrong.  Correct on point number 1 in the article, but #2 and #3 remain cause for concern.

[Platoon]

100 games!  🥳   Wow!  What next?  Comeback Player of the Year? 

[pierre75275]

I don't think Buxton really answered anything, honestly. The injury bug will continue to follow him, and this yr he was still unable to get to 400 plate appearances despite getting into 102 games. We knew for awhile now he could hit for power and that he is worth the contract depending on health. For him it all comes down to health. We need him to get 450 plate appearances a year.

[ewen21]

6 hours ago, ashbury said:

There have been posters here who claim that Buxton simply isn't good - that he can't hit.  

I have CLAIMED that in the past, but he has improved as a hitter so I don’t say he can’t hit.  I post his lifetime stats as a reminder that he’s no great offensive player.  I assume you remember a player named Chet Lemon.  Do you think Buxton’s career is shaping up to be better than his?  Was Chet Lemon ever doused with such lavish praise?  He was an above average player.  A nice player.  And he’s better than Buxton.

 

I’ve watched MLB since 1972.  I was a subscriber to Baseball Digest from about 1977 to 1984.  Read all the baseball stats you can find.  I just don’t understand all the positive ink he gets, nor can I fathom the sensitivity to any criticism he gets on the part of crowd of folks here.

[ashbury]

42 minutes ago, ewen21 said:

I have CLAIMED that in the past, but he has improved as a hitter so I don’t say he can’t hit.  I post his lifetime stats as a reminder that he’s no great offensive player.  I assume you remember a player named Chet Lemon.  Do you think Buxton’s career is shaping up to be better than his?  Was Chet Lemon ever doused with such lavish praise?  He was an above average player.  A nice player.  And he’s better than Buxton.

 

I’ve watched MLB since 1972.  I was a subscriber to Baseball Digest from about 1977 to 1984.  Read all the baseball stats you can find.  I just don’t understand all the positive ink he gets, nor can I fathom the sensitivity to any criticism he gets on the part of crowd of folks here.

I'm probably older than you, and Chester Lemon was a very fine player.  No, he was better than that - it's always good to go back and refresh one's memory - he's borderline Hall of Fame.

It's flattering for any player to be even mentioned in the same post as Chet Lemon.

When on the field and not hobbled by something, Buxton has been better than Lemon - as good with the bat and better regarded on defense.  The improvement you noted was from a baseline season at age 24 that was wrecked by injury.  If you stopped thinking about him in 2018 and only looked at him now, yes I suppose the improvement comes as a shock.

Lemon had a far better career than Buxton is likely to achieve.  That difference is solely due to availability on the field - almost triple the number of plate appearances Buxton currently has, and Buxton is no sure thing to increase his totals very much going forward.

But at similar ages on days where both were healthy?  I take Buxton.  And like Lemon, unfortunately, he'll still have to buy a ticket to enter the Hall.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

When on the field and not hobbled by something, Buxton has been better than Lemon - as good with the bat and better regarded on defense...

"not hobbled by something" Buxton has been the recipient of the most shameless excuse making in the history of baseball with a close second being Alex MVP When Healthy Kirilloff. Every game those two go 0-4, they're hurt. Every game they do well, they're suddenly healthy again. Even if it's literally back to back games.

Buxton is a 5-6 WAR player, if healthy enough to play CF, if he played a 150 game season. Lemon was just as valuable as Buxton will ever be at his peak. Buxton is not better than Lemon, and Lemon was just very good (but never truly exceptional) for a very long time. Chet is closer to Kirby Puckett since Puckett and Lemon actually played about the same number of games. Puckett got the HoF nod due to popularity and the fact he was forced to retire maybe a couple years early.

Just because Buxton put up some really great numbers in a SSS in 2021 with a 40pt over career average BABIP doesn't mean a person can project that reasonably. Castro looked like a 6 WAR player this year for a while. How did that turn out once the plate appearances stacked up?

[ewen21]

Chet Lemon was a nice player.  It’s not a slight to say he’s not even close to being a “borderline HOFer”.  Guys with under 2,000 hits are not borderline HOFers.  
 

Ashbury said he had a better career than Buxton and that’s all he needed to say.  No need to postulate or explain the reason why that is.  At the end of the day it’s about achievement and not potential or what ifs.  
 

I never got an explanation as to why Buxton gets all these articles desperately trying to elevate his status.  What’s the point?  Honestly.  Stop telling your readers what we are seeing isn’t really what we are seeing.  Players play.  
 

Remember Mike Lamb?   He hit 12 to 14 HRs a few times in around 300 at bats before we got him.  I remember talking to an enthusiastic fan about him before he arrived and was told we can expect between 25-30 HRs if he just became an every day player.  Right.  If the queen had two balls she’d be king.  It’s the same thing with Buxton.  No one wants to hear it after ten seasons.

 

Whether he can, can’t or won’t all we know is he DOES NOT play half of the time and we have an extremely large sample size:  A TEN YEAR CAREER

[ewen21]

6 hours ago, bean5302 said:

"not hobbled by something" 

How about this instead…

 

He cannot hold up to the rigors of daily life in Major League Baseball.

[nclahammer]

I'm happy Buxton played 100 games and had one of his highest batting average season at .279.  I hope this is a step forward to 120+ games for him as a Twin.

[Whitey333]

Buxton has mostly been an over hyped and over rated player.  For the writer to continually try to prop up Buck with meandering analytic malarkey is ridiculous.  

[Otaknam]

So the low bar for proving the doubters wrong on Buxton is him playing 100 games? Seriously? The good news is he was able to stay healthy enough play that many games in CF. The bad news is that’s only 60% of the season. But he missed significant time AGAIN with injuries, including the massive slide in the final forty games when they really needed him. He did hit well when he played, as his .280 average and power numbers show. But he is now a part time player who cannot be counted on to be there when needed. The roster has to be constructed with that unassailable fact in mind. 

[Doctor Gast]

Buxton is a bargain, yes it's a bummer that he's not on the field more, but neither is Mike Trout. He plays elite CF & in short spurts can carry a team, I'll take that. 100 games is above what most expect, I see that as the glass half full. IMO his biggest drawback is his hip scare-tissue & how persistent that is. I'm optimistic.

[Patzky]

On 9/29/2024 at 12:43 PM, Linehan said:

Actually this season proves doubter’s we’re right. Second best season of his 10 year career and he knocks in 50 runs, scores 60 and steals nine bases. He is paid 12.5% of total payroll. 

Is that Buxton's fault or the team's payroll's fault?

[Patzky]

9 hours ago, ewen21 said:

How about this instead…

 

He cannot hold up to the rigors of daily life in Major League Baseball.

At least Royce admitted such.

[ewen21]

On 9/29/2024 at 1:02 PM, rv78 said:

It's obvious the writers here are enamored with Buxton. A guy that only plays part-time and has never led the team, or even helped them, to anything significant. Every article written about Buxton is meant to win over the fans and convince them how great Buxton is. 1.So his power has evolved into something special? Really? If he played a full 162 games his total this year would be 28 HR's. That's a half a season's worth for a real power hitter. Has it helped take the Twins to the next level? NO! 2.Yes, he's injured too much. Nothing's changed and at this point of his career, a full season from him will likely never happen. You can't count on him and when the team needs him the most he's never there. 3.$15M may seem like a bargain but you forgot to factor in the cost of having to roster a replacement for him because he can't be relied on to be there. Plus the cost of that replacement player taking up a roster spot that could be used for a purpose more important than another CFer. The days of a player 140-150 games haven't passed and that is what should be expected of your highest paid players, which he is one of. Anything short of that is detrimental to the team. I'm still waiting for the Buxtons and Correas to lead this team to the next level. Unfortunately they don't have what it takes, and the last 4 years of their contracts will be more of the same.

You sound like a historian.  Did you watch Larry Hisle as a Twin and a Brewer back when the Brewers were in the AL? He was a very good player.  In his five years with the Twins Hisle produced higher totals in hits and RBI than Buxton has in his entire career.  Sounds crazy, but it's true. Buxton hit more homers and scored more runs, but that is all he has on Larry Hisle's offensive output:

What's more, Hisle played in 662 games in his five years and collected 697 hits; while Buxton has collected 639 over a career that spans ten seasons and 772 games.   In Larry Hisle's five seasons in Minnesota he also drove in 409 runs compared to Buxton's 353 in 110 fewer games played!  Hisle scored 369 runs in five seasons to Buxton's 426 runs scored FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER.  Even with the 110 extra games played, being put in to pinch run and with all that speed.

Like I said, Hisle was a nice player.  He hit .286 with a 354 OBP, a ,457 SLG and an OPS of .811.  Who would you rather have in your lineup?  In my opinion, Buxton needs to do what Hisle did as a 31 year old in order for me to take him seriously.

[ewen21]

Sorry for the duplicate

Edited October 1, 2024 by ewen21
Posting Trouble, duplicated message

[ewen21]

Duplicated post