Dodgers 6, Twins 3: Too Little, Too Late

[TwinsDr2021]

In case you haven't heard. Glasnow set a major league record last night, he is the only pitcher ever to strike out 14 while throwing fewer than 90 pitches (he threw 88)

[Original_JB]

9 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Did you think the Pohlads actively making the team worse was going to increase attendance?  My theory is that some fans are very sick of the Pohlad greed are deciding to spend their money elsewhere.  

Did they follow through on not selling large sections of the park until the lower bowl (more expensive seats) was 'sold out'? If so, people may just be waiting for seats in their price range to be available.

[Swing Batter-Batter]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Starting the season 12 for 15 is bad? opps that K's, he is actually 1 for 15.

He was lousy in spring training as well. A trip back to St. Paul seems to be in order.

[Dave The Dastardly]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

I think it has more to do with how inconsistent weather is in april in MN; today is going to be in the 60's and lovely. monday was dreary, cool, gray, and with showers. people don't want to spend a packet on tickets and then have it be cold and/or rainy for baseball. when it's sunny and nice, a day game at Target Field is glorious. when it's cold and grey and raining...it's ain't as fun. and night games when it's in the 40's can be rough.

But it's the long sought outdoor baseball.

[David Maro]

Down 6-0 and strike out 15 times,let's hit 3 solo homeruns.It's time for a new plan.

[jmlease1]

21 minutes ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

But it's the long sought outdoor baseball.

I do love the outdoor baseball and it's far better than the Dome. But it's a bit of a crapshoot in april or october.

[roger]

Gonna be interesting to see who leaves the Twins when Thielbar returns.  Will Tonkin only be here for four or five games?

Thought Rocco took Ober out an inning early on Monday and left Louie in an inning to long last night.  Varland looked really sharp the first three innings.  But against a team like the Dodgers our pitchers cannot have any let down.

Gonna be really interesting to see whether Martin starts seeing a lot more time in left with Wallner on the bench.  When Kep returns I expect the correct move will be Wallner to AAA with Martin staying in left.  Guess the problem with that is that Martin doesn't fit well with the Twins, ie, he doesn't strike out enough.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Verified Member said:

Really, payroll is the number one reason why some will not attend? I just find that so odd.

I think, 4 games into the first homestead of the season, it's a little early to make sweeping statements about attendance. 

That said, I don't know what more the Twins could have done this past winter to reduce enthusiasm about their product. 

Follow up your first postseason success in decades by almost immediately announcing a huge payroll slash? Check.

Show zero interest in  bringing your fan favorite and CY runner up back? Check

Load up on obscure bullpen pieces nobody has heard of as your offseason strategy? Oh by the way, coincidentally spend the MLB equivalent of nothing doing so? Check

Trade long time Twin Polanco for nothing? Coincidentally, reduce payroll as the only benefit visible to fans? Check

Add nothing of any real value all winter to the lineup? Check

Pinch pennies like scrooge all winter? Check

Make one ham-handed, insult-to-fans, "we know better than you rubes" statement after another all winter? Check.

So yeah...at the risk of making sweeping statements 10 days in, I think payroll likely is, and will have, a negative effect on attendance. 

It certainly was a topic of discussion here.

[TouchEmAllGuy]

The Twins moves (lack of) has definitely affected how I view the team this season as far as traveling downtown to catch a game. Will go to a few in the summer on beautiful days, but the product hasn't been fun to watch so far this season, so I'm in no rush to get to Target Field. 

[stringer bell]

The Pohlads are hoping internal improvements keep the team at the same level or improve despite spending much less on payroll. It could work or it could blow up in the front office’s face. Injuries and let’s call it what it is—bad performance—have sucked all the good feeling from the last season including a postseason run. Attendance could fall dramatically if they keep playing like like this for another month.

I am confident it won’t be this bad for much longer, but the vaunted bullpen depth is gone and few guys have stepped up (Kirilloff, Correa and Buxton has shown positive signs) on the offensive side. The players are who they are—we’re seeing the Mr. Hyde in Julien, Wallner, Jeffers and Castro, to name a few and it isn’t pretty. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Did you think the Pohlads actively making the team worse was going to increase attendance?  My theory is that some fans are very sick of the Pohlad greed are deciding to spend their money elsewhere.  

No, I did not think that. I think if they put an entertaining product on the field people will come. This off season many wanted more money spent on pitching. Many people thought the Twins had a pretty good line up and needed to spend money to keep Gray, or replace him.

[bean5302]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:25 AM, Woof Bronzer said:

Did you think the Pohlads actively making the team worse was going to increase attendance?  My theory is that some fans are very sick of the Pohlad greed are deciding to spend their money elsewhere.  

They actively made the team worse? Falvey did that, not the ownership. Falvey had a budget. $100 for groceries and he spent $95 on scratch offs. The fans didn't show in 2022 or 2023, either when ownership brought in huge free agents and approved trades to acquire front line pitching.

How many games did you attend the last two years when the Twins were over $150MM in payroll?

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

They actively made the team worse? Falvey did that, not the ownership. Falvey had a budget. $100 for groceries and he spent $95 on scratch offs. The fans didn't show in 2022 or 2023, either when ownership brought in huge free agents and approved trades to acquire front line pitching.

How many games did you attend the last two years when the Twins were over $150MM in payroll?

Don't get me wrong, Falvey has his hands all over this mess too, but this is the first time I'm hearing speculation that he was the one to make the decision to cut payroll and not the Pohlads. Do you have a source for this?   

[bean5302]

28 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Don't get me wrong, Falvey has his hands all over this mess too, but this is the first time I'm hearing speculation that he was the one to make the decision to cut payroll and not the Pohlads. Do you have a source for this?   

Falvey's front office was given a budget, he squandered it. There were a lot of options to shore up the rotation on the cheap this year, and there were much better bats than Santana available as well. Can't hold the ownership responsible for a front office which can't budget appropriately. Payroll vs. attendance.
2022 - $149MM (16th), 22.2k/game (20th)
2023 - $156MM (16th), 24.3k/game (19th)
2024 - $130MM (19th), 22.4k/game (23rd)
Attendance has been similar to 2001-2004 at the Metrodome. The Twins had the 2nd least expensive average ticket price in baseball last year.

The Twins had Kepler, Farmer, Polanco and Vazquez to potentially cut payroll and make room for new players. If the front office has to move prospects along with the players to improve the roster, then that's on the ownership. It's the front office's job to try and be competitive with the budget they're given.

The 2024 Twins payroll is higher than several of the playoff teams from 2023: Orioles, Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, and Brewers. The front office was given a sufficient payroll to be compete, and a payroll rank once again higher than attendance rank.

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

The 2024 Twins payroll is higher than several of the playoff teams from 2023: Orioles, Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, and Brewers. The front office was given a sufficient payroll to be compete, and a payroll rank once again higher than attendance rank.

Sure...but there's a direct and obvious correlation between payroll and roster quality.    The Twins themselves seemed to acknowledge this; they simply thought they could cut payroll and still waltz to a division title (this is precisely why Joe Pohlad cited the Os and Rays as models he admires).  All the FO wizardry in the world wasn't going to allow Falvey to sign a #2 starter to replace Gray while cutting $30mil at the same time.  

Again:  I'm not a Falvey fan and he botched the budget he was given, I agree with you there.  I just don't think you can blame him for the payroll cuts, that was clearly a Pohlad choice.