Wander Franco gone?

[Mike Sixel]

It is possible Franco has played his last MLB game. 

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It is possible Franco has played his last MLB game. 

Has the legal system gotten involved yet? I'd think that's the only way we've seen the end of him in MLB.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Has the legal system gotten involved yet? I'd think that's the only way we've seen the end of him in MLB.

MLB has.....it just surfaced yesterday....but, fair call. What team will employ a dude that allegedly has sex with girls under 16? 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

MLB has.....it just surfaced yesterday....but, fair call. What team will employ a dude that allegedly has sex with girls under 16? 

I guess my stance on it is that I'd hope it's an all or nothing situation, and that comes down to a criminal investigation. Either she was/is 18 or she wasn't/isn't. If she was/is 18 MLB likely has nothing to suspend him for and he'll be back after this road trip. Or she wasn't/isn't 18, and then he's committed a crime and should be in prison. I don't see a violation of their domestic violence, child abuse, etc. agreement if he was sleeping with an 18 year old. So, based on my understanding of everything (which is admittedly very little on this specific case as, like you said, it just came out yesterday) this is either a crime or he'll be back when it's determined he didn't commit a crime.

Although, I guess I don't know the details and whether or not these things allegedly happened in America. That could certainly change a criminal investigation while not effecting the MLB investigation. Although that should effect his immigration status (I believe he's still a Dominican citizen, and not US, but could be wrong) so then we'd be back to the original all or nothing answer.

[MMMordabito]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

MLB has.....it just surfaced yesterday....but, fair call. What team will employ a dude that allegedly has sex with girls under 16? 

Probably all of them .... in the DSL. 😀

[MN_ExPat]

42 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I guess my stance on it is that I'd hope it's an all or nothing situation, and that comes down to a criminal investigation. Either she was/is 18 or she wasn't/isn't. If she was/is 18 MLB likely has nothing to suspend him for and he'll be back after this road trip. Or she wasn't/isn't 18, and then he's committed a crime and should be in prison. I don't see a violation of their domestic violence, child abuse, etc. agreement if he was sleeping with an 18 year old. So, based on my understanding of everything (which is admittedly very little on this specific case as, like you said, it just came out yesterday) this is either a crime or he'll be back when it's determined he didn't commit a crime.

Although, I guess I don't know the details and whether or not these things allegedly happened in America. That could certainly change a criminal investigation while not effecting the MLB investigation. Although that should effect his immigration status (I believe he's still a Dominican citizen, and not US, but could be wrong) so then we'd be back to the original all or nothing answer.

According to Forbes, it appears to have occurred in the DR (the DR's Age of Consent is 18).  Can't find any other details though.

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, MN_ExPat said:

According to Forbes, it appears to have occurred in the DR (the DR's Age of Consent is 18).  Can't find any other details though.

Thanks! That certainly does make things a little different I'd think. But then immigration things could be at play, but I'm no immigration specialist. Certainly complicates things I'd think.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

It is possible Franco has played his last MLB game. 

Doubtful,  had it occurred in the US its a different story.  MLB will likely put him on the Exempt list pending an investigation similar to Trevor Bauer.  Again in that case there was no criminal case which would be similar to this yet he was still suspended for a very long time.   However,  the question ultimately comes down to did he know or should he have known she was 14.   You can't have a blanket no penalties if it occurs in another country, but I do think it does create more cover for Franco and likely less, or much less penalties.  The other question is was it factual or not, and is there enough evidence to support the accusations.  In Sano's case, there was not enough evidence to support the claims, and it became a he said/she said.   In any case it is not a good look, and there is the potential he is a scum bag and this is his last game.  At present the likelihood he is suspended for a lengthy time but being that it is in another country, MLB will likely not be as forceful and someone will give him another shot depending on the substantiation of the claims.  

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, IA Bean Counter said:

Doubtful,  had it occurred in the US its a different story.  MLB will likely put him on the Exempt list pending an investigation similar to Trevor Bauer.  Again in that case there was no criminal case which would be similar to this yet he was still suspended for a very long time.   However,  the question ultimately comes down to did he know or should he have known she was 14.   You can't have a blanket no penalties if it occurs in another country, but I do think it does create more cover for Franco and likely less, or much less penalties.  The other question is was it factual or not, and is there enough evidence to support the accusations.  In Sano's case, there was not enough evidence to support the claims, and it became a he said/she said.   In any case it is not a good look, and there is the potential he is a scum bag and this is his last game.  At present the likelihood he is suspended for a lengthy time but being that it is in another country, MLB will likely not be as forceful and someone will give him another shot depending on the substantiation of the claims.  

You don't have to know someone is under age for it to be illegal....

It being in the DR does  complicate things for sure, given the different legal systems.

[MN_ExPat]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Thanks! That certainly does make things a little different I'd think. But then immigration things could be at play, but I'm not immigration specialist. Certainly complicates things I'd think.

Possibly.  There's a lot of unknowns here still.  Without any known type of criminal conviction or active investigation from Dominican authorities, USCIS is unlikely to hold up his visa.  MLB likely could impose a suspension if the commissioner's office finds evidence of moral deviance even in the absence of criminal charges.  There is precedence for that. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You don't have to know someone is under age for it to be illegal....

It being in the DR does  complicate things for sure, given the different legal systems.

We also don't know the circumstances-  it appears the individual in question who claims she is 14,  also has a 2 year old child.  It creates question and I don't want to understate or overstate that.  It also appears she may have had friendships, with other Dominican ball players.   I am just saying let the investigation go on.  For US rules it is fairly tough on the Accused if the individual was under age unless they were completely duped.  Being in another country, immigration rules, the fact she was blackmailing him,  has me make pause on this case.   In the Sano case I said to let things play out,  if he is a scumbag throw the book at him.  If he was misled or otherwise, there may be some leeway in the case or they may do nothing if there is a lack of evidence to support the claims.  

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, IA Bean Counter said:

We also don't know the circumstances-  it appears the individual in question who claims she is 14,  also has a 2 year old child.  It creates question and I don't want to understate or overstate that.  It also appears she may have had friendships, with other Dominican ball players.   I am just saying let the investigation go on.  For US rules it is fairly tough on the Accused if the individual was under age unless they were completely duped.  Being in another country, immigration rules, the fact she was blackmailing him,  has me make pause on this case.   In the Sano case I said to let things play out,  if he is a scumbag throw the book at him.  If he was misled or otherwise, there may be some leeway in the case or they may do nothing if there is a lack of evidence to support the claims.  

All fair, which is I put "allegedly" in my second post. We just don't know yet. 

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, MN_ExPat said:

Possibly.  There's a lot of unknowns here still.  Without any known type of criminal conviction or active investigation from Dominican authorities, USCIS is unlikely to hold up his visa.  MLB likely could impose a suspension if the commissioner's office finds evidence of moral deviance even in the absence of criminal charges.  There is precedence for that. 

Oh, all sorts of unknowns still for sure. My thing with the "moral deviance" thing is that it comes down to the same thing as a criminal investigation. Either she was 18 or she wasn't. I think MLB would have a very hard time getting a suspension through if she was 18 and he didn't do anything illegal. I don't think there's any precedence for that. The ones where there's no criminal charges, but the guy is still suspended, are over violence and the league basically says that their required level of evidence is different than a court's. That's a lot harder explanation to give when it comes to someone's age. That isn't he said/she said. That's simply a fact. Her age is her age so I don't see how they would get away with suspending him if she was/is 18.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Oh, all sorts of unknowns still for sure. My thing with the "moral deviance" thing is that it comes down to the same thing as a criminal investigation. Either she was 18 or she wasn't. I think MLB would have a very hard time getting a suspension through if she was 18 and he didn't do anything illegal. I don't think there's any precedence for that. The ones where there's no criminal charges, but the guy is still suspended, are over violence and the league basically says that their required level of evidence is different than a court's. That's a lot harder explanation to give when it comes to someone's age. That isn't he said/she said. That's simply a fact. Her age is her age so I don't see how they would get away with suspending him if she was/is 18.

MLB and DR will have to evaluate the facts, and the age of 18 isn't necessarily the tipping point on the scale in this case.  I think they will be evaluating several things:

1.  What is her true age

2. What did she tell Franco her age was. Did she portray herself as older, having a child - allegedly drinking vodka and driving vehicles.  

3. Did she have other relations or attempted relations with other ball players and what did she state her age is

4. What was the blackmail scheme, and is there documentation that shows whether Franco knew he was committing a crime, was unaware or ect.  That documentation is going to be key.  If it occurred on email or text messages or a DM software,  it will show a lot of the intent.   

Obviously they will likely try to interview Franco and the accuser.  Get factual information, but I think this hinges on the communication back and forth in the blackmail scheme and what other players tell mlb in the investigation and whether this was a scheme that targeted Franco and ensnared him.   

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, IA Bean Counter said:

MLB and DR will have to evaluate the facts, and the age of 18 isn't necessarily the tipping point on the scale in this case.  I think they will be evaluating several things:

1.  What is her true age

2. What did she tell Franco her age was. Did she portray herself as older, having a child - allegedly drinking vodka and driving vehicles.  

3. Did she have other relations or attempted relations with other ball players and what did she state her age is

4. What was the blackmail scheme, and is there documentation that shows whether Franco knew he was committing a crime, was unaware or ect.  That documentation is going to be key.  If it occurred on email or text messages or a DM software,  it will show a lot of the intent.   

Obviously they will likely try to interview Franco and the accuser.  Get factual information, but I think this hinges on the communication back and forth in the blackmail scheme and what other players tell mlb in the investigation and whether this was a scheme that targeted Franco and ensnared him.   

Yeah, I disagree whole heartedly. The age of 18 is absolutely the tipping point on the scale in this case. Maybe the DR justice system is different, but MLB is not going to accept "I didn't know she was 14." They don't care about blackmail schemes, whether she tried it on other players, or how old she "portrayed herself" as. The communication doesn't matter. Don't get ensnared by 14 year olds. You're a multimillionaire professional athlete with every resource possible at your disposal for finding out the age of anyone, and are warned about being a likely target of blackmail schemes. The league won't care 1 bit if he claims he didn't know. The "I didn't know" excuse is used all the time. And never works. MLB won't care. If she was 14 Franco is getting the longest suspension the league can give him. They're not taking the PR hit because he says he didn't know.

[gunnarthor]

For baseball's sake, I hope he's not done. The allegations are pretty depressing though. Ugh.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

11 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, I disagree whole heartedly. The age of 18 is absolutely the tipping point on the scale in this case. Maybe the DR justice system is different, but MLB is not going to accept "I didn't know she was 14." They don't care about blackmail schemes, whether she tried it on other players, or how old she "portrayed herself" as. The communication doesn't matter. Don't get ensnared by 14 year olds. You're a multimillionaire professional athlete with every resource possible at your disposal for finding out the age of anyone, and are warned about being a likely target of blackmail schemes. The league won't care 1 bit if he claims he didn't know. The "I didn't know" excuse is used all the time. And never works. MLB won't care. If she was 14 Franco is getting the longest suspension the league can give him. They're not taking the PR hit because he says he didn't know.

I don't think its that simple.   The I don't know excuse has plausibility if they have documentation to support it and they have other players corroborating claims.  If so he may still get suspended but no where near what Bauer got.  Like I said we will have to wait and see.   Rushing to judgement like in the Sano case didn't end in the way social media or some on forums expected either.  Let the investigators investigate,  and see what they discover and ultimately decide.  I question the validity of her age, I am not saying it isn't true, however, it would be incredibly rare and would have had severe medical implications for an 11-12 year old bring a baby to term.   

[FlyingFinn]

Wow, add this to the Rays going from a team that hardly lost any games at the beginning of the year to injuries and many more losses now. Rough turn-around.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, IA Bean Counter said:

I don't think its that simple.   The I don't know excuse has plausibility if they have documentation to support it and they have other players corroborating claims.  If so he may still get suspended but no where near what Bauer got.  Like I said we will have to wait and see.   Rushing to judgement like in the Sano case didn't end in the way social media or some on forums expected either.  Let the investigators investigate,  and see what they discover and ultimately decide.  I question the validity of her age, I am not saying it isn't true, however, it would be incredibly rare and would have had severe medical implications for an 11-12 year old bring a baby to term.   

I'm not rushing to judgement. I haven't said he should be suspended or anything. I have no idea what the facts are, or how old she was/is. But he's going to get the biggest suspension in MLB history if it's found that he was sleeping with a 14 year old. The league won't care what documentation there was. The league won't care about anything. If they find out one of their players was sleeping with a 14 year old they're going to absolutely bury them. It is that simple. Now I have no idea if that is the actual fact of the situation, and I'm going to let all the info come out before I judge Wander. But if the allegations are true he's not seeing an MLB game for a very long time.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm not rushing to judgement. I haven't said he should be suspended or anything. I have no idea what the facts are, or how old she was/is. But he's going to get the biggest suspension in MLB history if it's found that he was sleeping with a 14 year old. The league won't care what documentation there was. The league won't care about anything. If they find out one of their players was sleeping with a 14 year old they're going to absolutely bury them. It is that simple. Now I have no idea if that is the actual fact of the situation, and I'm going to let all the info come out before I judge Wander. But if the allegations are true he's not seeing an MLB game for a very long time.

Yep that is the issue and there are lots of things floating out there that we just don't know the truth.  There are claims she is 19 and the relationship was when she was 18.  She then blackmailed to get 200k and a Mercedes otherwise she would ruin his career.  He did not pay up. In either case its prudent for MLB to investigate and find the truth and circumstances of the case at hand.  . 

[Mike Sixel]

The investigation is being led by a special division of their justice department..... And there is another girl, potentially. 

[nicksaviking]

It's hard to see the DR publicly and vehemently pursing these allegations against one of their most famous citizens if they didn't intend to enforce their laws. 

Dominican Republic said Franco is the subject of an investigation conducted by the National Agency for Boys, Girls, Adolescents and Family and Gender Violence Unit, which is a division specializing in minors and gender violence in the province of Peravia.

I don't imagine you have a task force named this if they felt these kinds of crimes are something you sweep under the rug. Obviously we don't know the situation, nor the DR legal system, but I'd have to think the 'violence' part of that unit could possibly be something thus far we haven't been made aware of as well.

[Parfigliano]

Just me but....No one would give two sh!ts about this if Mr Franco didnt have a highly marketable talent to put a round bat on a round ball. 

He does.  Now people who have invested in that marketable talent  care.  I gaurantee  they dont care if he did or didnt molest the alleged child.  They care about the $$$.

[jmlease1]

10 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Just me but....No one would give two sh!ts about this if Mr Franco didnt have a highly marketable talent to put a round bat on a round ball. 

He does.  Now people who have invested in that marketable talent  care.  I gaurantee  they dont care if he did or didnt molest the alleged child.  They care about the $$$.

That's simply not true. There are a lot of people that care very deeply about stomping out sex crimes, celebrity or not. It wouldn't get covered on ESPN or The Athletic without the fact that Franco plays baseball, however.

He's potentially in a great deal of trouble. Grooming underage girls for sex? Having sex with underage girls? This is serious stuff that can mean major legal consequences in this country and other countries. It's also an area of law that systems struggle to manage well, often treating victims abysmally, and needed special training from investigators and prosecutors to handle well. It's also an area where wealth and privilege can have outsized impacts in some complicated ways. 

Hard to know how much legal trouble he's in for sure at this point, but it's not insignificant or he wouldn't have been placed on the exclusion list. Regardless, he's shown terrible judgment at best...and is a disgusting sexual predator at worst. It's not good in any way.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

I am all about investigating to find out the truth then going from there.  However,  based on looking at things - this is leaning more towards a significant issue.   It obviously appears to be a minor if the task force is picking it up.  So at this time the age does not appear to be in dispute, and possibly a second girl.   I do think he doesn't get the death penalty if he was entrapped and told she was older,  however, there is a large spectrum on that and at this point it and there isn't enough information to even speculate on that.   I am leaning much more to we just saw his last game played.  

[bighat]

Agree with @Mike Sixeland @IA Bean Counter- it's curtains for Wander's career in MLB. There's just too much smoke around this for there not to be a fire. I've read a few reports from Dominican MLB reporters who have pretty much said that they believe his career is over. 

Mayyyybe he plays in Japan, Korea, or a Mexican/Dominican/Venezuelan league at some point. But that might be 5 years from now at the very least...and at this point I'm leaning even those scenarios appear unlikely. Most certainly with the MLB, you just don't come back from this. I can't think of any team putting this guy out there.

It's over. 

[Mike Sixel]

12 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Just me but....No one would give two sh!ts about this if Mr Franco didnt have a highly marketable talent to put a round bat on a round ball. 

He does.  Now people who have invested in that marketable talent  care.  I gaurantee  they dont care if he did or didnt molest the alleged child.  They care about the $$$.

What a horrible thing to believe.

[nicksaviking]

*******Moderator Note*******

This is obviously a big issue to deal with on a message board. This is just a pre-emptive notice, if someone thinks about playing the contrarian on this topic, don't.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, bighat said:

Agree with @Mike Sixeland @IA Bean Counter- it's curtains for Wander's career in MLB. There's just too much smoke around this for there not to be a fire. I've read a few reports from Dominican MLB reporters who have pretty much said that they believe his career is over. 

Mayyyybe he plays in Japan, Korea, or a Mexican/Dominican/Venezuelan league at some point. But that might be 5 years from now at the very least...and at this point I'm leaning even those scenarios appear unlikely. Most certainly with the MLB, you just don't come back from this. I can't think of any team putting this guy out there.

It's over. 

I'm not sure it's over.... But it's not looking good for him. 

[Vanimal46]

Doesn’t appear this will be solved anytime soon.