Blue Jays 7, Twins 6: Only the Twins Could Lose Like This

[USAFChief]

14 hours ago, wabene said:

You could say the Bird's use of Cimber was similar. 

Both Pagan's and Cimber's use are just more proof there is no such thing as a "low leverage" reliever. They're all going to be in situations where the game is on the line, pitching in close games. 

Pretending "the bottom of the pen" is unimportant is folly.

 

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

Toronto did essentially the same thing just one game earlier.

Toronto lost a game by trotting out the worst reliever in MLB over the past 4 years who has a 15.5 ERA this season when entering with a lead and has singlehandedly lost the team like 10 games in 1.5 years, yet somehow remains on the roster because the FO would rather lose games than admit that they were wrong to sign the worst reliever in MLB?  The odds of that happening in back to back games with different teams must have been astronomical.

[TopGunn#22]

Here are a couple of deals the Twins could consider once Polanco comes off the I.L. or this offseason: BBTV's player ratings.  Polanco is 30 years old.  Both the Brewers and Mariners could use an upgrade at 2B.

Polonco 36.1 and Miranda 18.0  (54.10 total) to the Brewers for Corbin Burnes 50.70. (Burnes is 28 y/o).

Polanco 36.1 straight up for Brandon Woodruff 30.4  (Woodruff is 30 y/o).

Either deal adds a stud pitcher to our staff and addresses the eventual void left by Sonny Gray, Maeda and Mahle.

Polanco 36.1 and Gordon 7.4 to the Mariners for Andres Munoz 40.5 (Munoz is 24 y/o).

Another team to keep an eye on is the Padres.  Musgrove, I believe is an impending FA after this season, maybe has one more year of control.  His current value is 19.2 on BBTV's and he's 30 years old.  Blake Snell is also 30 y/o and his value is just 4.10 (and he would give us a LH pitcher).  

Just a couple of ideas.

[joefish]

It seems like we have given up way too many 2 strike hits.  Home runs too.  Guys prove they can't hit a 95+ fastball and our catchers call for off speed.  BOOM. There it goes. 

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, joefish said:

It seems like we have given up way too many 2 strike hits.  Home runs too.  Guys prove they can't hit a 95+ fastball and our catchers call for off speed.  BOOM. There it goes. 

Are there really people still in the major leagues who can't hit a 95 MPH fastball? I think that's kind of a prerequisite.

[TopGunn#22]

One last thought regarding Pagan:  The Blue Jays just cut a pitcher (Anthony Bass) who must have thought he had the right of free speech, (living in America after all),  that said or endorsed something that would have required in the words of his General Manager some "reeducation."  I think he was O.K. with boycotting Bud Lite and Target (Oh My!!!).  Bass apologized but was still cut.  In 45 games with Miami last year year his ERA was 1.41.  The Blue Jays acquired him at the deadline and in 28 games with the Jays he compiled a 1.75 ERA.  If I was the Twins I'd DFA Pagan and grab Bass so fast my head would spin !!!  

[Whitey333]

Plain and simple Pagan shouldn't have been on the team this year.  He has not been good for three years now.    Too much whining about the call on Kiriloff.  Yes it was close.  Maybe tricky tacky.  But it's his job to keep track of the pitch clock.  Plus he could have simply called timeout.  I don't think he had used his timeout for that at bat.  I'm nit a fan of the umpires especially the home plate ump.  The ball and strike calls this year have been a joke.  Twins are always quick to blame umpires, bad luck, injuries or whatever is convenient for blown losses to deflect blame on manager and front office.  Fact is they blew ANOTHER game this year that should have.been a win.  These losses will bite them by the end of the season.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Steven Trefz said:

What title would you give the Sunday game recap TwinsDaily crew?  Let's try to keep it PG-13 🤣

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Steven Trefz said:

Let's have some fun on this off-day...what title would you give the Sunday game recap TwinsDaily crew?

Let's try to keep it PG-13 🤣

Blargh, gah, wtf: Jays 7, Twins 6

[DJL44]

56 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

One last thought regarding Pagan:  The Blue Jays just cut a pitcher (Anthony Bass) who must have thought he had the right of free speech, (living in America after all),  that said or endorsed something that would have required in the words of his General Manager some "reeducation."  I think he was O.K. with boycotting Bud Lite and Target (Oh My!!!).  Bass apologized but was still cut.  In 45 games with Miami last year year his ERA was 1.41.  The Blue Jays acquired him at the deadline and in 28 games with the Jays he compiled a 1.75 ERA.  If I was the Twins I'd DFA Pagan and grab Bass so fast my head would spin !!!  

This has the potential to go off the rails (hello, moderator) but I'll just note that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences of your speech. It only refers to the government penalizing you for your speech. If you say something that publicly embarrasses your employer expect to get fired.

[terrydactyls]

Here's another "one last thought".  I would not put much effort in going outside the organization for additional help this year.  It might get the Twins into the playoffs but only for the first round (and yes I know about the Phillies last year).  It's time to think of the bigger picture.  Get the younger players up from the minors and see how they do,  Sell older players at the deadline to teams that have a chance to win.

As for Pagan, he is on the team because he has "stuff".  Personally I would rather have a guy that can get someone out than a guy with "stuff" and hasn't ever used it.

[David Maro]

Plenty of chances to add on,but stood in the box taking strike 3. This team is actually looking to strike out 2000 times end of season. If they average 12.3 a game for 162 they will get there. How many games do we watch score early then hope we hold on. When you have a pitcher on the ropes you need to put them away. You have to play baseball,not homerun. Yes the homerun is part of the game,but how many homeruns does a player hit in 400-500 PA. Only a few players even see 25-35 in a season. Putting the ball in play wins games because it puts pressure on the pitcher and defense. Cleveland is 1.5 games back because they put the ball in play. Their manager is a HOF manager and if it was all about the homerun he would be managing that way. The starters are doing their job but hitting is beyond bad and manager is even worse.

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here are a couple of deals the Twins could consider once Polanco comes off the I.L. or this offseason: BBTV's player ratings.  Polanco is 30 years old.  Both the Brewers and Mariners could use an upgrade at 2B.

Polonco 36.1 and Miranda 18.0  (54.10 total) to the Brewers for Corbin Burnes 50.70. (Burnes is 28 y/o).

Polanco 36.1 straight up for Brandon Woodruff 30.4  (Woodruff is 30 y/o).

Either deal adds a stud pitcher to our staff and addresses the eventual void left by Sonny Gray, Maeda and Mahle.

Polanco 36.1 and Gordon 7.4 to the Mariners for Andres Munoz 40.5 (Munoz is 24 y/o).

Another team to keep an eye on is the Padres.  Musgrove, I believe is an impending FA after this season, maybe has one more year of control.  His current value is 19.2 on BBTV's and he's 30 years old.  Blake Snell is also 30 y/o and his value is just 4.10 (and he would give us a LH pitcher).  

Just a couple of ideas.

FYI, Joe Musgrove signed a 5 year, $100 million extension with the Padres at the end of last year. Don't think he'll be getting traded anytime soon.

[chpettit19]

24 minutes ago, David Maro said:

Plenty of chances to add on,but stood in the box taking strike 3. This team is actually looking to strike out 2000 times end of season. If they average 12.3 a game for 162 they will get there. How many games do we watch score early then hope we hold on. When you have a pitcher on the ropes you need to put them away. You have to play baseball,not homerun. Yes the homerun is part of the game,but how many homeruns does a player hit in 400-500 PA. Only a few players even see 25-35 in a season. Putting the ball in play wins games because it puts pressure on the pitcher and defense. Cleveland is 1.5 games back because they put the ball in play. Their manager is a HOF manager and if it was all about the homerun he would be managing that way. The starters are doing their job but hitting is beyond bad and manager is even worse.

While I don't at all disagree that the Ks are a problem, Cleveland is really not the team you should be pointing to as a shining example of an offense doing things the right way. They're 1.5 games back for the same reason the Twins are at .500, they can pitch. Twins 2nd in baseball in ERA, Cleveland 6th. Twins K way too much, but they've still outscored the Guardians by 38 runs. Cleveland is 27th in baseball in runs scored. If they were an offense to emulate they'd have run away with the division the same as the Twins would have if they were an offense to emulate. Nobody is trying to be Cleveland's offense. Not even Cleveland is. They brought in Josh Bell for a reason. And it wasn't to just put the ball in play.

[eastsidekate]

Back when I started watching baseball in the 80s, pitchers who couldn't routinely protect a multi-run lead weren't a thing. Well, they were (I was a Twins fan), but we just called them bad pitchers.

 

I'm tired of hearing about "leverage situations." Pagan isn't failing to protect a one-run lead against McGuire and Conseco. He's coming in with big leads and issuing multiple walks and hits. He's bad. He's being a paid to do a job he can't do. 

 

I don't want to hear Baldelli saying that all his [good] pitchers are unavailable. Either get better pitchers or manage your bullpen better. TK would never. 

 

I told myself a week ago I'd be happy with a 2-4 road trip. I am. But Rocco and the FO have to stop tolerating failure.

[insagt1]

We are enjoying how the robo ump is doing this year in Rochester. During weekday games the robot is energized. A real ump still calls balls and strikes, but each team gets I believe 5 challenges if they think the ump blew it. They then refer to the robot and it tells them what the pitch was. Not positive on how many challenges you get, or what happens when you are wrong too many times. I think you just lose the right to challenge. Anyway it is being used at AAA with the idea that it will eventually be brought up to MLB. So far not too many missed calls.