Can Joey Gallo Rebound from Rock-Bottom in Minnesota?

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, saviking said:

Just an observation from reading this thread and others. This is not a player fans wanted by about a 9-1 margin. That says a lot in it's own right.

I wonder what the response would have been if Gallo came in to play first base and DH.

I was listening to an interview with someone from the ray's FO last week on MLB radio.  They asked him why the Ray's have been able to be so successful despite the revenue disadvantage.  He said "we are willing to make unpopular decisions".

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

I was listening to an interview with someone from the ray's FO last week on MLB radio.  They asked him why the Ray's have been able to be so successful despite the revenue disadvantage.  He said "we are willing to make unpopular decisions".

Attendance figures would seem to bear that out. Mission Accomplished?

[Major League Ready]

49 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Attendance figures would seem to bear that out. Mission Accomplished?

Should I conclude from your post you advocate making popular decisions instead of assembling a great team?  Have you considered the possibility of other factors contributing to low attendance.  

If you were to look at how Cleveland and Oakland manage their rosters / acquisition, you will find very similar strategies.  Those three teams have produced by far the most 90+ win seasons.  Should they make decisions to please fans instead of following practices proven to be superior in building winning teams?

[ashbury]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Are you advocating they make popular decisions instead of assembling a great team?  Have you considered the possibility of other factors contributing to low attendance.  

This is not the thread for debating franchise health in other markets, but yes of course I have.  And your comment suggested you hadn't looked at anything bigger-picture than win-loss record so I challenged it.  I've long wondered if the Moneyball strategy that's evolved looks like a mixed bag at best when you take everything into account, and quite possibly is long-term slow-acting poison.

[Major League Ready]

32 minutes ago, ashbury said:

This is not the thread for debating franchise health in other markets, but yes of course I have.  And your comment suggested you hadn't looked at anything bigger-picture than win-loss record so I challenged it.  I've long wondered if the Moneyball strategy that's evolved looks like a mixed bag at best when you take everything into account, and quite possibly is long-term slow-acting poison.

The "money ball" debate is interesting but that's another issue.   At least I thought the issue was what moves promote the constructing of a good baseball team.  We have had a few unpopular moves in the past few years.  How did they pan out.  Trading Donaldson last year had plenty of detractors.  Some people were just against trading Donaldson in general.  Some thought very little of Urshela.  

Perhaps the best example is Rosario.  Some people are still complaining, and he has produced negative WAR since leaving and he is a mediocre defender.  There were people here livid we would trade Escobar even though he was a free agent three months later.  Obviously, we would not have Duran.  Then, perhaps the most unpopular of all was Berrios.  It's too early to conclude much but at the moment that's looking like a pretty good decision.  Taylor Rodgers .... We may or may not get anything out of Paddack but we did not lose much either.

[SanoMustGo]

Bottom line is Gallo is a bad fit on a team full of players like him...ie  bad situational hitters.  

[ashbury]

12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The "money ball" debate is interesting but that's another issue.  

Of course it's not and the examples you gave, um, exemplify that.

[Nick Nelson]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:36 PM, USAFChief said:

"Gallo's been good-to-great every year BUT one."

 

Ah...no. he's had one good to great half-season (2019).

lol what? He hit 38 home runs and won a Gold Glove in 2021. 

[Major League Ready]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Of course it's not and the examples you gave, um, exemplify that.

What I meant is that that topic is very complex and we would need to do a great deal of research and gather a great deal of information to address it in an informed matter.  What we can evaluate very accurately is the relative win records produced via the strategies these teams employ.   

[Nick Nelson]

If Joey Gallo was a free agent last offseason, he would've gotten a $100 million contract pretty easily. Are people aware of this? I feel like there's a tremendous disconnect on this board with how good Gallo was before 2022.

[Nick Nelson]

18 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I still think it is a poor signing by the FO. Those SO's are rally killers.

It's mystifying to see Twins fans say this after watching the most rally-allergic offense ever last offseason. They struck out less than the average team but ranked second in the AL in GIDP. Contact isn't always good. 

[ashbury]

18 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

If Joey Gallo was a free agent last offseason, he would've gotten a $100 million contract pretty easily. Are people aware of this? 

And if he bounces back in 2023 as the team hopes, he'll command a similar long term contract next off-season and the Twins will say too rich for our blood, an extension wouldn't be prudent.  So I really hope the plan isn't to trade away, say, Wallner or Larnach to make room for a signing that has very little upside ultimately.

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, ashbury said:

And if he bounces back in 2023 as the team hopes, he'll command a similar long term contract next off-season and the Twins will say too rich for our blood, an extension wouldn't be prudent.  So I really hope the plan isn't to trade away, say, Wallner or Larnach to make room for a signing that has very little upside ultimately.

That's my concern. They'll trade away a guy(s) with 4-6 years of control for one with two, then lose Gallo (if he's good, if he's bad, they don't want him). At some point, you can't keep trading your prospects because you won't sign big time FAs, because you will run out of prospects.

[Nick Nelson]

14 minutes ago, ashbury said:

And if he bounces back in 2023 as the team hopes, he'll command a similar long term contract next off-season and the Twins will say too rich for our blood, an extension wouldn't be prudent.  So I really hope the plan isn't to trade away, say, Wallner or Larnach to make room for a signing that has very little upside ultimately.

I doubt that's the plan. It's more an issue of, you can't really count on those guys or Kirilloff right now, so this gives you a short-term plug with some upside and allows you to be patient while seeing what shakes out. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

I doubt that's the plan. It's more an issue of, you can't really count on those guys or Kirilloff right now, so this gives you a short-term plug with some upside and allows you to be patient while seeing what shakes out. 

How can AK or Larnach show they belong if they don't get to play? I'm not sure I understand this part of the argument.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Nick Nelson said:

 I feel like there's a tremendous disconnect on this board with how good Gallo was before 2022.

Concur.

 

 

[Malachi]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:32 PM, LewFordLives said:

Ignore the $11 million (which is an absurd amount).......what hole does he fill on this team?   This is the most bizarre nonsensical signing I can remember.

Well, now we can trade kepler and we have enough money already

[Twins GFP]

30 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How can AK or Larnach show they belong if they don't get to play? I'm not sure I understand this part of the argument.

It is one thing to give them a chance, it is another thing to put all of the weight on their shoulders.  IF they are healthy and IF they make the roster, they will play.  Gordon and Miranda both showed that last year.  There may be 100 reasons why they don't play, but they will need to take advantage of the opportunities when they happen.

[Nick Nelson]

37 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How can AK or Larnach show they belong if they don't get to play? I'm not sure I understand this part of the argument.

Triple-A? Both have options. Gallo also has flexibility to move around which is what makes him preferable to Kepler. 

AK and Larnach need to show they can stay healthy for a sustained period of time before anything else really matters.

[h2oface]

22 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Yes. 

[ashbury]

41 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Yes. 

You told him already.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

It is one thing to give them a chance, it is another thing to put all of the weight on their shoulders.  IF they are healthy and IF they make the roster, they will play.  Gordon and Miranda both showed that last year.  There may be 100 reasons why they don't play, but they will need to take advantage of the opportunities when they happen.

I'll never understand the need to choose 9 thinking number 10 can't play. Or 11 or 12 or 13 or 14............... 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

2 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's mystifying to see Twins fans say this after watching the most rally-allergic offense ever last offseason. They struck out less than the average team but ranked second in the AL in GIDP. Contact isn't always good. 

Nick, I can solve your mystery with three examples:   1) Watch some old videos of  Miguel Sano at bat, with runners on the bases, when he swings and misses that low, outside  slider time after time. That is what it is going to be like  in 40 % of Gallo's at bats. 2) Watch videos of the Twins last year fail to advance the runners by bunt, sacrifice, stealing a base or hitting behind  the runners.  For over 100 years this has been good fundamental baseball.  3) Watch Kepler's videos from last year as he hits and grounds another 2 hopper to 2B.  Nick I agree that contact is not always good, but it is usually better than the alternative.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Nick, I can solve your mystery with three examples:   1) Watch some old videos of  Miguel Sano at bat, with runners on the bases, when he swings and misses that low, outside  slider time after time. That is what it is going to be like  in 40 % of Gallo's at bats. 2) Watch videos of the Twins last year fail to advance the runners by bunt, sacrifice, stealing a base or hitting behind  the runners.  For over 100 years this has been good fundamental baseball.  3) Watch Kepler's videos from last year as he hits and grounds another 2 hopper to 2B.  Nick I agree that contact is not always good, but it is usually better than the alternative.

Sacrifice bunts are stupid before the seventh inning. The was a playoff team without one until they weeks to go in the year. The best teams don't give away outs 

[Reptevia]

Can Joey Galloway rebound from rock bottom (in Minnesota)?  I guess we’ll find out in 2024. 

[h2oface]

5 hours ago, ashbury said:

You told him already.

No I didn’t! 

[USAFChief]

On 12/18/2022 at 1:54 PM, Nick Nelson said:

lol what? He hit 38 home runs and won a Gold Glove in 2021. 

Nick...you're better than this. He slugged .458 in 2021. On the Twins alone that would have put him behind Polanco, Cruz, Sano, JOSH DONALDSON, Garver, Buxton, and Kyle Friggen Garlic.

38 isolated HRs is nice and all, but when it come as part of only 99 hits total in over 600 PAs, it's not very helpful. 61 hits that stayed in the ballpark in 616 PAs. That leads to only 77 RBI on those 38 HRs, and way too many empty trips to home plate.

 

He's not a good offensive player. Much like Sano, the whiffs cost too much. 

[FanSince1961]

The front office felt they need to replace Sano?  Damned fine job of doing that.

This is, straight up, the worst signing in Twins history.