For all you armchair pitching experts...

[gmarais66]

All winter long I read posts on this site thrashing TR for signing Kevin Correia. All the armchair pitching experts also whipped Ryan for not signing a long list of free agent pitchers, including Marcum, McCarthy and Blanton. Well, here's a great reality check for those who were complaining all winter...

 

Warne: It's early but investment in Kevin Correia looks like a good one - Minnesota Twins news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

[Brock Beauchamp]

All winter long I read posts on this site thrashing TR for signing Kevin Correia. All the armchair pitching experts also whipped Ryan for not signing a long list of free agent pitchers, including Marcum, McCarthy and Blanton. Well, here's a great reality check for those who were complaining all winter...

 

Warne: It's early but investment in Kevin Correia looks like a good one - Minnesota Twins news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

 

So with 9% of the season complete, we should just assume Correia will continue pitching as he has in three starts?

 

Given the 160 starts he made previous to 2013, that's a pretty big pill to swallow.

 

I hope the guy continues down this path but it's unlikely. Incredibly unlikely. Like one-in-a-hundred-chance unlikely.

[big dog]

The best reality check is to read all the way to the end of the article.

"The overriding message is this: Don't get too excited or too down about this year with Correia. Enjoy it while it's good, be prepared for if it gets bad, and help is on the way."

[Guest USAFChief]

Somebody should have started a thread about "the pitchers we didn't get," days ago.

[Winston Smith]

15 games a season makes, hand out the Cy Young and MVP and print the playoff tickets.

[nicksaviking]

Well, here's a great reality check for those who were complaining all winter...

 

 

I hope he keeps it up, but if he doesn't, do we get to throw this back in your face as you have done to us?

 

On behalf of everyone who dares question this organization's pitching decisions let me appologize. They have clearly atoned for the past eight years of incompetence with the Correia signing.

[edavis0308]

This thread is just begging to get bumped repeatedly come July and August. I hope it doesn't.. but... How dare us use a decade sample size to predict future results as opposed to rubbing three weeks of stats in everyone's face.

[gmarais66]

I hope he keeps it up, but if he doesn't, do we get to throw this back in your face as you have done to us?

 

On behalf of everyone who dares question this organization's pitching decisions let me appologize. They have clearly atoned for the past eight years of incompetence with the Correia signing.

 

Wow... So much hostility on this site... Bitter, angry, hostile and frustrated people out there... I think some of you would find a way to complain if the Twins won the World Series.... I can just hear it now... "They should have won it in five games. Just the fact they won it in seven games, shows they didn't really deserve to win it." My point wasn't to say that Correia is going to win the Cy Young. It was more to say that he's been much better than expected and all those slamdunk free agents everyone wanted the Twins to sign, weren't signed for a reason.

[Boom Boom]

I don't think that the majority of free agent pitchers went somewhere else because the Twins knew better than to sign them.

 

I'm all for an ironic Correia bandwagon, though. Pitch to contact, FTW!

[drjim]

I think the better lesson is not that Correia was some great signing but that all the other options people were calling for so loudly were pretty hit and miss themselves.

 

The amount of angst regarding Marcum for example was off the charts and the guy might not even pitch this year.

[snepp]

Wow... So much hostility on this site... Bitter, angry, hostile and frustrated people out there... I think some of you would find a way to complain if the Twins won the World Series.... I can just hear it now...

 

Climb down off your horse. Given the general tone of your opening post, I don't see how you could possibly be surprised by the response.

[nicksaviking]

Wow... So much hostility on this site... Bitter, angry, hostile and frustrated people out there...

 

 

Well I hate to stoop to playground antics, but... you started it:

 

All winter long I read posts on this site thrashing TR for signing Kevin Correia. All the armchair pitching experts also whipped Ryan for not signing a long list of free agent pitchers, including Marcum, McCarthy and Blanton. Well, here's a great reality check for those who were complaining all winter...

 

 

 

all those slamdunk free agents everyone wanted the Twins to sign, weren't signed for a reason.

 

Are you implying that Terry Ryan would have signed better free agents but he secretely knew Correia was actually the best pitcher on the market?

[TheLeviathan]

I think the better lesson is not that Correia was some great signing but that all the other options people were calling for so loudly were pretty hit and miss themselves.

 

The amount of angst regarding Marcum for example was off the charts and the guy might not even pitch this year.

 

Marcum is starting Saturday last I heard. Someone might need to blog about SSS etiquette.

[drjim]

Marcum is starting Saturday last I heard. Someone might need to blog about SSS etiquette.

 

Fair enough but we'll see how long he stays healthy.

 

I personally wanted the Twins to sign Marcum going into the offseason but I can appreciate why they passed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wow... So much hostility on this site... Bitter, angry, hostile and frustrated people out there... I think some of you would find a way to complain if the Twins won the World Series.... I can just hear it now... "They should have won it in five games. Just the fact they won it in seven games, shows they didn't really deserve to win it." My point wasn't to say that Correia is going to win the Cy Young. It was more to say that he's been much better than expected and all those slamdunk free agents everyone wanted the Twins to sign, weren't signed for a reason.

 

You honestly don't see how you baited people with this thread? You refer to detractors as "armchair pitching experts", then use a three start sample to prove a point that no one is arguing. Correia has pitched well. That's great. I don't see anyone groaning every time he throws another start that keeps the Twins in the game.

 

It's three starts. If he stays healthy all season, that's less than 10% of his starts. Nobody here who has watched baseball for more than five minutes is going to start changing their opinion of Correia (who has been in MLB for almost a decade) based on three starts in miserable weather facing a new league in April.

 

You're just asking for half the members of this forum to bookmark this thread and revive it in August for the sole purpose of mocking you for taking such a high and mighty attitude in a ridiculously SSS.

[righty8383]

Remember guys like Ramon Ortiz and Livan Henandez? They were questionable signings who got of to pretty good starts for the Twins. I would love for Correia to prove me wrong, But I think I'll wait a little while before I start eating crow.

[drivlikejehu]

It was a stupid signing then, and remains one now. Correia will show his true talent- or lack thereof- soon enough.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Remember guys like Ramon Ortiz and Livan Henandez? They were questionable signings who got of to pretty good starts for the Twins. I would love for Correia to prove me wrong, But I think I'll wait a little while before I start eating crow.

 

Heh. In 2007, Ortiz started off with a 3-1 record, 2.57 ERA, and 35 IP in April.

 

He ended the season with a 4-4 record, 5.41 ERA, and only 91 IP.

 

I didn't even bother looking up Livan's numbers because I'm tired of cleaning vomit off my keyboard.

[Oxtung]

I think the better lesson is not that Correia was some great signing but that all the other options people were calling for so loudly were pretty hit and miss themselves.

 

The amount of angst regarding Marcum for example was off the charts and the guy might not even pitch this year.

 

Of course they're hit and miss. That's the nature of sports. Some people have bad years. Since you can't know ahead of time which pitchers those are going to be you look at the probability of a good year happening. Correia could have a good season but the probability of that happening is much lower than that of those other pitchers. That's why he was a bad sign and an even worse sign for 2 years.

[Oxtung]

Somebody should have started a thread about "the pitchers we didn't get," days ago.

 

Perhaps they should have included a link to this article. Twice.

[cmathewson]

Heh. In 2007, Ortiz started off with a 3-1 record, 2.57 ERA, and 35 IP in April.

 

He ended the season with a 4-4 record, 5.41 ERA, and only 91 IP.

 

The article that formed the basis of this post even mentions that at the end, as a cautionary tale. Apparently, the poster didn't bother to read to the end.

[Linus]

I think I'll decline to argue about past history - I don't think anyone expects Corriea to win the Cy Young. One valid point on all of this is that perhaps TR was more accurate than we thought when he opined that the free agent pitching market was "thin". At the time, I didn't really see it that way but it sure looks like there may be some validity to the observation now.

[Guest USAFChief]

I would be open to the possibility that TR had better medical information than us arm chair experts.

[cmathewson]

I would be open to the possibility that TR had better medical information than us arm chair experts.

 

That's why I was not upset about not signing Marcum. Not only were the Twins concerned about his health, nobody wanted to sign him. And the Mets' contract is structured as though they expected him to miss much of the season.

[Nick Nelson]

I think the better lesson is not that Correia was some great signing but that all the other options people were calling for so loudly were pretty hit and miss themselves.

I think this was obvious, wasn't it? Everyone knew that not each free agent pitcher was going to pan out, particularly considering the number of question marks surrounding many, but it was incumbent upon the Twins' evaluators to pick the right ones. After three starts, yes, the Correia decision looks savvy, but that's essentially meaningless. I still feel highly confident that many of the other FA options will ultimately prove to be far better values.

 

Also, even with Correia's strong start the Twins' SP corps still ranks 26th in MLB in ERA, so I'm not going to trip over myself crediting Ryan for overhauling the unit just yet.

[drjim]

I think this was obvious, wasn't it? Everyone knew that not each free agent pitcher was going to pan out, particularly considering the number of question marks surrounding many, but it was incumbent upon the Twins' evaluators to pick the right ones. After three starts, yes, the Correia decision looks savvy, but that's essentially meaningless. I still feel highly confident that many of the other FA options will ultimately prove to be far better values.

 

I said this not to defend the Correia signing by any means (which I was not in favor of at the time and I still am not) but more as a pushback to the massive angst the whole offseason. Like most offseasons the free agent pitching options were poor and I'm pretty convinced that no matter who the Twins signed the majority of people on this board would have complained. And many of these soon to be better values that you allude to have already broken down or were unable to answer the bell at the start of the season.

 

Free agency can be used to supplement when most of the core is in place, but you can't expect any team to turn over 4/5s of a rotation effectively in one offseason.

 

Also, even with Correia's strong start the Twins' SP corps still ranks 26th in MLB in ERA, so I'm not going to trip over myself crediting Ryan for overhauling the unit just yet.

 

Congratulations.

[Nick Nelson]

Free agency can be used to supplement when most of the core is in place, but you can't expect any team to turn over 4/5s of a rotation effectively in one offseason.

 

No, but the Twins signed guys who were widely viewed as being at the bottom of the free agent barrel, as evidenced by their relative price tags. So the question is whether TR outfoxed the rest of the league by buying low on the likes of Correia and Pelfrey, or should have spent to acquire more highly regarded arms. The fact that some of those highly regarded arms aren't going to pan out is not a revelation and the fact that some have been bad/injured early isn't surprising (nor particularly noteworthy). In time we'll be able to judge all of these pitchers and decide whether or not the "massive angst" was warranted but April 23rd certainly isn't that time.

[PseudoSABR]

I think the general point is that there really wasn't much difference mid-tier (or more highly regarded) guys and the bottom of the barrel guys. So it was much angst about nothing.

[Nick Nelson]

I think the general point is that there really wasn't much difference mid-tier (or more highly regarded) guys and the bottom of the barrel guys. So it was much angst about nothing.

 

And the response to that point is that it's too soon to make such a declaration.

[gil4]

Of course they're hit and miss. That's the nature of sports.

It's also especially true of lower-priced starting pitchers.

 

 

 

That's why he was a bad sign and an even worse sign for 2 years.

I keep forgetting about that darned 2nd year. If I keep that up, maybe the rest of the world (including Correia and the Twins) will forget about it too.