When the love of the game meets the business side of the game (the MLB lockout)

[Brock Beauchamp]

52 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'm curious how much of the time saved will be eaten up by added pitching changes as starters continue throw fewer and fewer innings and pitch counts run higher with hitters failing/refusing to put balls in play early in the count. I'm all for speeding up aspects of the game, and I'm not against a clock, I just view it as band-aid for a bullet wound of sorts when the root cause of the slow down is a fundamental shift in the way the game is played. 

It’s certainly not the only needed fix but it’s the easiest to implement. I’m not sure how to coax more balls in play but that needs to be the over-arching goal.

One thing about a pitch clock is that I wonder how it will impact velocity. A starter won’t be able to go max effort on every pitch if they only have 15 seconds to recover. A side effect of a pitch clock may be a slight increase in balls in play. 

[mikelink45]

55 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

I agree that blackouts need to stop, and in general, baseball needs to get much, much easier to watch. It's not unreasonably expensive to buy a subscription to MLB.TV... if you're already a fan. Watching your home team's games needs to be accessible enough that you can slouch into it because it happens to be on. That doesn't have to be every game, but it needs to be available frequently enough that you can build a regular viewing habit.

My experience with people who do not watch baseball is that they are generally open to watching baseball (especially in-person), and when you invite them to a game, they have fun. I think there's a large segment of the population who like the idea of baseball, but who don't watch it because you can't watch it without making a significant effort to watch it. 

I think pace of play is an area that can be improved. You might lose people with bad pace of play, but you're not going to gain people with fast pace of play. Even at its most action-packed, baseball isn't ever going to compete with basketball or football for sheer action. Try to improve pace of play, yes, but promote baseball as a leisurely way to kick back on a summer evening, or bill it as a tense standoff between the pitcher and batter. You're never going to hook anyone by trying to provide the same thrills-per-minute as faster-paced sports. Baseball is a game you can watch with friends where it's OK to get distracted by a side-conversation. On some level, you have to embrace it.

I agree with what people have been saying about flair, and I also agree with what people have been saying about promoting players. I've had friends ask me about Ohtani or Trout in conversation. People are interested in people and stories, and it's much easier to get people invested in them than it is to get them invested in the impersonal idea of the game.

 

I had Mlb.com subscription last year and was shocked by how few games I could watch.

[mikelink45]

After all this great exchange I am thinking about something else.  TV fills the slow times with clips from other games, flashbacks, replays, etc.  Maybe the TV should be on the jumbo tron?  I remember in the 60s when transistor radios were all over met stadium.  You could listen to the play by play all over the stadium and it added to the fun.  Or else have ports where people could plug in earphones.  

[Unwinder]

11 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It’s certainly not the only needed fix but it’s the easiest to implement. I’m not sure how to coax more balls in play but that needs to be the over-arching goal.

One thing about a pitch clock is that I wonder how it will impact velocity. A starter won’t be able to go max effort on every pitch if they only have 15 seconds to recover. A side effect of a pitch clock may be a slight increase in balls in play. 

My only fear is the possibility that pitchers don't tone down the velocity and blow out their arms at an even greater rate.

[wsnydes]

30 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

My only fear is the possibility that pitchers don't tone down the velocity and blow out their arms at an even greater rate.

My guess is that the teams would figure that out and adjust accordingly.  There may be some adjustment period, but I would think in the long run there would be fewer injuries.  Going max effort on every pitch has a cumulative effect.  Mechanics fall apart as they tire, resulting in more injuries.  Take that away and injuries should decrease.

[wsnydes]

MLB has to make games easier to watch.  They need to be more available to watch.  Making it more difficult with blackouts and exclusive TV rights is asinine.  No other industry that I'm aware of makes it MORE difficult to consume their product than professional sports and MLB in particular.  I like what the NHL has done and I think MLB should take some lessons from them.  It's awfully difficult to maintain a fanbase, let alone grow it, if people can't watch.

On top of that, a pitch clock is such a simple way to speed things up.  You don't even know it's there.  Of course, it would actually have to be enforced, but the benefits to the minor league game are obvious.

[MABB1959]

I hope the whole season is cancelled.  Twins most likely won't be competitive anyway.  We can all become Saints fans instead and get to know who will make the Twins a better team.  Sick of the players who make more money in one year that most of use make in 5-10 years (talking about the lowest salaried players).  Sick of the multi-million dollar players making the price of going to a game unaffordable for those of us who won't make that kind of money in their lifetime.  The owners?  There are a few to respect, the ones who spend money to build a competitive team.  The Pohlad's don't run the Twins that way or at least it seems that way.  We get a player like Berrios and let him go when he is what we have been waiting for.  Can't believe they signed Buxton.  Never thought the would make a deal.  Maybe they didn't expect him to sign either.  We lived though 2020-2021 without a lot more.  

I can't watch any games on FSN because of the Dish TV/Bally's nonsense but I am not going to switch providers to watch a team that makes you pull your hair out.

I would be quite an awakening for all the greedy players/owners to realize who pays their salaries and helps them turn a profit!

 

 

[TopGunn#22]

mikelink, I remember in the mid-60's running home from school at lunch time (I skipped recess) to watch Bob Gibson pitch Game #1 against the Tigers in 1968 and fanning 17.  I couldn't see the whole game, but the pace of the game was much faster and Gibson was such a quick worker that I'm sure I saw 3-innings.  My Mom had my lunch prepared and the TV on when I burst into the house.  I had it timed down to the second how long it would take me to sprint home and back, and I knew I couldn't be late, because then I wouldn't be able to make the sprint the next day.  I did this for the 1966, 1967 & 1968 World Series until we moved and the elementary school was farther away.  Day baseball World Series games should be played on weekends.  I miss those days !!

[tony&rodney]

"When the love of the game"  I have pulled off the road to watch a few innings of youth baseball just for the ambience more than a few times. This despite having played, coached, and attended thousands of games, not counting my Twins addiction via radio and video. The pandemic backed up to the lockout does push the sanity of my choices forward to some extent. There are some vast differences between MLB and the other levels of baseball other than the obvious talent. I like them all but want them to remain distinctly separate. For example, a pinch runner for the catcher in baseball in high school and seven inning games is ok but I don't want those in MLB. 

... "meets the business side of the game"  I cancelled my mlb.com account after twenty years. MLB has bullied the public into building stadiums across the country and the benefit remains controversial. The PA has taken some odd stances in my opinion but have also indisputably lost financial position in the 21st century economics of baseball. Like everyone else, there are issues that would seem very beneficial for the union and players not currently in discussion in the present negotiations, but I defer the choices of battle to each side because I am an outsider. Meanwhile, the owners want  the players to remember who is the boss. I cannot support their side for a raft of reasons. The reserve clause is reason enough on its own, but the history of malfeasance by the owners, well documented, buttresses my position.  A settlement could be reached today for the cost of one Colome or even a Shoemaker, but not cost as much as one Happ. Greed and power are ugly sides to take and I'm not pleased with the current fight between these two sides. 

Finally, where love meets business gets played out in the comment section of newspapers, magazines, and online forums. While the writers of the vast majority of sources see this lockout as primarily a mistake by the owners, the comments raise an interesting side of a national consciousness. Many, many comments refer to the wages of players as unjust and too high and wish for the end of the PA union. These same people are in favor of TIF and excessive handouts for the owners. Half of the owners inherited their teams, which is an interesting and somewhat ironic side note considering the entire discussion at hand. It is an interesting commentary to see the comments promote welfare for the owners and a wish for authoritarian control over the players. Perhaps each side finds a way this week to end this untimely debacle. One thing that seems to be unfolding, however, is that the current business decisions will include changes most certain to erode my love of the game even as it satisfies the needs of others. When baseball draws little circles where a fielder must stand before each pitch, puts in the larger bases, and reduces the umpires to pointless participants listening to a headset for their calls, and their other changes, an entire set of fans will become enamored with the "modernization" of the game while a few people like myself will just fade away from a game we once loved.

[KirbyDome89]

20 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

A side effect of a pitch clock may be a slight increase in balls in play. 

Or an uptick in pitching changes as guys wear down sooner during the course of a game. Hopefully it's the former. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Or an uptick in pitching changes as guys wear down sooner during the course of a game.

Also a distinct possibility.

[TheLeviathan]

8 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

"When the love of the game"  I have pulled off the road to watch a few innings of youth baseball just for the ambience more than a few times. This despite having played, coached, and attended thousands of games, not counting my Twins addiction via radio and video. The pandemic backed up to the lockout does push the sanity of my choices forward to some extent. There are some vast differences between MLB and the other levels of baseball other than the obvious talent. I like them all but want them to remain distinctly separate. For example, a pinch runner for the catcher in baseball in high school and seven inning games is ok but I don't want those in MLB. 

... "meets the business side of the game"  I cancelled my mlb.com account after twenty years. MLB has bullied the public into building stadiums across the country and the benefit remains controversial. The PA has taken some odd stances in my opinion but have also indisputably lost financial position in the 21st century economics of baseball. Like everyone else, there are issues that would seem very beneficial for the union and players not currently in discussion in the present negotiations, but I defer the choices of battle to each side because I am an outsider. Meanwhile, the owners want  the players to remember who is the boss. I cannot support their side for a raft of reasons. The reserve clause is reason enough on its own, but the history of malfeasance by the owners, well documented, buttresses my position.  A settlement could be reached today for the cost of one Colome or even a Shoemaker, but not cost as much as one Happ. Greed and power are ugly sides to take and I'm not pleased with the current fight between these two sides. 

Finally, where love meets business gets played out in the comment section of newspapers, magazines, and online forums. While the writers of the vast majority of sources see this lockout as primarily a mistake by the owners, the comments raise an interesting side of a national consciousness. Many, many comments refer to the wages of players as unjust and too high and wish for the end of the PA union. These same people are in favor of TIF and excessive handouts for the owners. Half of the owners inherited their teams, which is an interesting and somewhat ironic side note considering the entire discussion at hand. It is an interesting commentary to see the comments promote welfare for the owners and a wish for authoritarian control over the players. Perhaps each side finds a way this week to end this untimely debacle. One thing that seems to be unfolding, however, is that the current business decisions will include changes most certain to erode my love of the game even as it satisfies the needs of others. When baseball draws little circles where a fielder must stand before each pitch, puts in the larger bases, and reduces the umpires to pointless participants listening to a headset for their calls, and their other changes, an entire set of fans will become enamored with the "modernization" of the game while a few people like myself will just fade away from a game we once loved.

Helluva post.

[Craig Arko]

This might help a little. Probably not a lot.

Friday Night Baseball on AppleTV+

[jctwins]

I'd really like to see them develop the equivalent of a Red Zone channel for baseball. No commercials, and the producers flip to the best situation happening at the time. Run it all on 3-5 minute delay so the producers know what to program slightly after it's actually happened. A way to turn on a channel when East coast games start at 5:00 Central and leave it on until games close at about midnight on the West coast. Make it available to all mlb.com subscribers, no blackouts. And split it off to another provider like the AppleTV thing above.

[adorduan]

The biggest thing they could do it get rid of the ridiculous and outdated blackout rules.  They are beyond insane.

[adorduan]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:51 PM, Squirrel said:

Yep. Not too long ago, in a thread saying we needed to be more like Tampa, this was one of my points … that it wasn’t just winning, people wanted to know and connect to the players, too. Tampa trades away players so quickly, and while it might produce a winning team, the fans stopped coming and the ownership doesn’t care. There has to be a balance in there somewhere. You can win all you want until the sport slips into oblivion. 

 

they never started coming....

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TBD/attend.shtml

[adorduan]

On 3/6/2022 at 3:49 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

It begins and ends with accessibility for me. Legal streaming shouldn't be such a f***ing hassle/impossibility. My hometown in IA is blacked out from viewing the 6 "surrounding," MLB teams. KC and STL are 7 hours away by car. That's ridiculous. There are some other great suggestions in here, but until MLB is willing to put the product in front of people, i.e. make it accessible, the impact of these other solutions won't be enough. 

Exactly. I'm 200 miles from the closest team (KC). Blacking out the games isn't going to entice me to drive 3+ hours to game.

[old nurse]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:51 PM, Squirrel said:

Yep. Not too long ago, in a thread saying we needed to be more like Tampa, this was one of my points … that it wasn’t just winning, people wanted to know and connect to the players, too. Tampa trades away players so quickly, and while it might produce a winning team, the fans stopped coming and the ownership doesn’t care. There has to be a balance in there somewhere. You can win all you want until the sport slips into oblivion. 

 

The owners are locked into a stadium that basically has one road in, one road out. Ratings gets them a good tv contract. The fans care, but likely can’t use most of a day to attend.

[tony&rodney]

On the Tampa Bay Rays stadium - The Trop is better than the Metrodome ever was but getting there is not worth it and there is nothing around the place. The people in Tampa or northern Pinellas County need to set aside two hours plus just for the drive. It's a long story but a stadium in downtown St. Petersburg would certainly have been better. A good site in Tampa should work as well. Sadly, for that area, the team will likely move out of the state after their lease expires. There is a sufficient population and interest or love for baseball in the Tampa Bay metropolitan area but the business decisions made thus far have made the experience pretty difficult for those fans.

[Original_JB]

"Force 4 men to stay on the dirt".  Hmmmm.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Original_JB said:

"Force 4 men to stay on the dirt".  Hmmmm.

Good thing that stadium no longer exists!

Are there other stadiums that are like this? (I haven't been to enough to know)

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Good thing that stadium no longer exists!

Are there other stadiums that are like this? (I haven't been to enough to know)

I believe every major league stadium has a full dirt infield now. Rogers Centre used to have cutouts, but changed to full dirt when they replaced the astro turf.