Who wants a Universal DH?

[Strombomb]

With the MLBPA union contract expiring this year and Manfred constantly tweaking the game, many have speculated that the National League will adopt the designated hitter next year.

I am a die-hard, tried-and-true Twins fan forever. This season is proof. That being said, I really like watching National League ball. I like small-ball; with the bunting, stealing, pinch running and hitting, all the strategy and tactics, etc.

Can we please, please, please, not have a universal DH? I thoughouly enjoy having a differentiation of styles and 2 leagues. It is history. It is competition; it is rivalry in itself (World Series and All-star game and inter-league play). 

If people want to modernize baseball, the first thing I am in favor of is an electronic strike zone. 

[bean5302]

Universal DH is a lock for next year. MLBPA wants it, MLB wants it, competition demands it and most fans want it.

[Unwinder]

This post is a bit out of date but expresses my feelings.

[TheLeviathan]

My opinion has been expressed many times, but it's a given this is going to change.  I think it will be good for the game on a number of levels and can't wait for it to finally happen.

[AceWrigley]

The DH sucks.

[wsnydes]

I don't like the DH at all, but it's a foregone conclusion that it'll be universally adopted, so it is what it is.

[Platoon]

I have nothing against the Nelson Cruz’s of the world, but I would get away from the DH if I had the choice. One reason alone is it opens up the game to more discussion over managers decisions with the moves a non DH game requires. 

[Sielk]

And here I thought I was the only one who likes the game without DH...

I like the symmetrical aspect of it. 9 players bat and field and a successful team has to work around everyone's weaknesses to win. Plus, how amazing is it when a pitcher actually gets a hit in a crucial spot? That's something you remember. 

That said, I think it's far too late. The NL may still have the DH but the minors don't, college doesn't and some pitchers don't even hit in HS. And then you expect them to step in and hit major league pitching? Of course it doesn't work.

I honestly believe there would be some pitchers who could hit somewhat decently if they just practiced it in the minors. But since they will never go back to no DHs in the minors, it's probably the logical conclusion to have the DH in the NL too. But no, I still don't like it. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

With the increase in pitcher velocity and movement in recent years, the gap between pitchers hitting and position players hitting has gone from "terrible" to "ghastly".

The game is better if pitchers do not attempt to hit.

In 2021, here is the triple slash for pitchers:

.105 / .144 / .134

Pitcher OPS is 30 points lower than Luis Arraez's batting average.

Who actually likes that garbage? I don't get it. There's nothing fun about watching "hitters" who make an out 86% of the time. Isn't modern baseball bad enough as it is without having to suffer through that experience multiple times a game?

[gunnarthor]

The DH will also help the NL become a stronger league.

[Thegrin]

I DO! I DO! I DO! After watching 5 straight games of pitchers not having a prayer of hitting (I tip my Twins cap to the few that did anything meaningful.) I longed for the DH. (Where oh where have you gone, Nelson Cruz!)

[AceWrigley]

4 hours ago, wsnydes said:

I don't like the DH at all, but it's a foregone conclusion that it'll be universally adopted, so it is what it is.

Maybe. I created the "Free Hitter" concept that allows a team once per game to pinch hit from the bench for anyone in the lineup with out the player being pinch hit for being removed from the lineup, and the player announced as the "Free Hitter" and bats as the Free Hitter returns to the bench where he can be used again in whatever capacity.

So if you had a guy who is basically a bat only guy he can be a Free Hitter and a Pinch Hitter in the same game, getting 2 AB's. No more DH rule. That would be 324 possible plate appearances in a 162 game schedule. How many DH's get more than that per year? So pitchers still bat, you haven't removed the need for a bat guy on the bench and you get even more managerial choices.

[wsnydes]

8 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

Maybe. I created the "Free Hitter" concept that allows a team once per game to pinch hit from the bench for anyone in the lineup with out the player being pinch hit for being removed from the lineup, and the player announced as the "Free Hitter" and bats as the Free Hitter returns to the bench where he can be used again in whatever capacity.

So if you had a guy who is basically a bat only guy he can be a Free Hitter and a Pinch Hitter in the same game, getting 2 AB's. No more DH rule. That would be 324 possible plate appearances in a 162 game schedule. How many DH's get more than that per year? So pitchers still bat, you haven't removed the need for a bat guy on the bench and you get even more managerial choices.

Interesting.  That's maybe a bit too gimmicky for me, but I like the creativity behind it.  I do like the options it presents though.  It would be interesting to see how some of the more forward thinking managers utilize something like that.  There's a chance that it could grow on me if I saw it implemented.  It may not be as gimmicky as I have it in my head.

[chpettit19]

I appreciate the strategy that no DH brings to the game, but can't stand watching pitchers "hit." They're so bad at it (and no, naming 5 pitchers who are decent at it won't change my mind) that it has no use in the game anymore. Especially in the playoffs. I watch professional sports to see the best of the best do what the rest of us can't. I don't want to tune into a playoff game and watch Max Scherzer strike out Blake Snell on 3 pitches in the wildcard game, let alone game 7 of the World Series. I want to see Max have to battle Cruz. 1 flare in every 10 ABs dropping in does nothing for me. It's not exciting to me to see that. Give me the best pitchers facing the best hitters. That's what I pay far too much money to see.

[AceWrigley]

1 minute ago, wsnydes said:

Interesting.  That's maybe a bit too gimmicky for me, but I like the creativity behind it.  I do like the options it presents though.  It would be interesting to see how some of the more forward thinking managers utilize something like that.  There's a chance that it could grow on me if I saw it implemented.  It may not be as gimmicky as I have it in my head.

Thanks. If you play any tabletop baseball games like Strat, APBA etc. try it out. I did some design work for Time Travel Baseball Game at Table Top Sports and they implemented it into the rules for the "Future" game. I still roll the dice some and always use it. I like it. It's really nice for that 2nd inning rally, 2 outs, and the pitcher is up. Or save it till later and you can bring your closer in to get the last out in the 8th and use the Free Hitter for him next inning if he's up.

[MMMordabito]

I'd rather move the mound back and down, but it's coming and won't really bother me as a Twins fan.   Bailey Ober can finish his career with a 184 OPS+, if he misses the Cubs.

[Strombomb]

The National League has won 11 of the last 20 Word Series. 7 of the 10 most lucrative teams are in the NL. They continue to compete and fill seats.

Alternatively, Batting average has dropped throughout baseball recently. Should we allow more than one DH per team? 

 

[TheLeviathan]

4 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

With the increase in pitcher velocity and movement in recent years, the gap between pitchers hitting and position players hitting has gone from "terrible" to "ghastly".

The game is better if pitchers do not attempt to hit.

In 2021, here is the triple slash for pitchers:

.105 / .144 / .134

Pitcher OPS is 30 points lower than Luis Arraez's batting average.

Who actually likes that garbage? I don't get it. There's nothing fun about watching "hitters" who make an out 86% of the time. Isn't modern baseball bad enough as it is without having to suffer through that experience multiple times a game?

Yeah but it's SOOOOO amazing to watch teams bunt!  In the same situation.  All the time.  So that the awful guy doesn't hit.  And starts the reliever train early.  And all the other marvelous "strategies" we hear so often about.

I would dare anyone to tell me what great "strategy" it would be every four minutes in a hockey that everyone played without sticks for a minute.  Or your QB had to throw left-handed every four drives.  Or NBA players shoot with their eyes closed.  Yeah, that ain't strategy.  

[Teflon]

I don't like the AL teams being penalized for playing in NL parks. It's sort of like having to slow down to drive through Iowa.

[Brock Beauchamp]

12 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I would dare anyone to tell me what great "strategy" it would be every four minutes in a hockey that everyone played without sticks for a minute.

Literal LOL

[Platoon]

Skating without sticks every 4 minutes would be silly! Without a stick what would the players use to hit each other? Better idea is have removable blades on the sticks, making the hitting of the puck more like a pitchers BA? And to make the comparison of the two sports even more realistic, how about one player skates with only one skate and one tennis shoe? Making him similar to a pitchers base running abilities? 
 

I still like the strategies of working around the pitching/hitter decisions. Plus, remember pitchers don’t hit 4 times a game. Maybe twice, the rest are PH for. 

[TheLeviathan]

10 minutes ago, Platoon said:

Skating without sticks every 4 minutes would be silly! Without a stick what would the players use to hit each other? Better idea is have removable blades on the sticks, making the hitting of the puck more like a pitchers BA? And to make the comparison of the two sports even more realistic, how about one player skates with only one skate and one tennis shoe? Making him similar to a pitchers base running abilities? 
 

I still like the strategies of working around the pitching/hitter decisions. Plus, remember pitchers don’t hit 4 times a game. Maybe twice, the rest are PH for. 

That's just it.....pitchers are so much worse than hitters it IS like a hockey player without a stick.  Gotta have a badass strategy for kicking the puck for a minute or so, so that makes it all ok!

Also, I always like how the "I love the strategies!" argument quickly becomes "well...it's only a couple times a game" when pointed out just how inept pitchers are.  Next step is when you realize it isn't strategy, it's just rote repetitiveness that everyone engages in.  That's like calling it "strategy" that the QB lines up behind the center.  Or that your basketball team wears shoes.

[Brock Beauchamp]

14 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

That's just it.....pitchers are so much worse than hitters it IS like a hockey player without a stick.  Gotta have a badass strategy for kicking the puck for a minute or so, so that makes it all ok!

Yeah, I want to address this more directly, as people don't seem to fully grasp just how bad pitchers are at hitting. So let me give a comparison...

Pitcher OPS: .278

League average OPS (including pitchers): .722

MLB OPS leader Vlad Guerrero Jr: 1.047

Pitchers as a whole are -.444 OPS under league average while the best hitter on the planet, Vlad Jr, is only +.325 OPS over league average.

Pitchers are so bad that it takes 3.75 pitcher combined OPSes to equal one Vlad Jr OPS. Hell, it takes 2.6 pitcher combined OPSes to equal league average.

Pitchers should not attempt to hit. It's not strategy, it's a free out in a game that has way too many unproductive, uninteresting outs already in it.

[Vanimal46]

Yeah, the strategy angle that NL fans hold onto is utterly predictable. Too lazy to look it up but I wouldn’t think they leave their pitchers in longer than AL teams, so they’re an automatic pinch hit in the 5th or 6th inning. Is that bench player more valuable taking 1 pinch hit a game, or playing a super utility role in the AL? 

I doubt NL managers want their pitchers exposing knuckles on their throwing and non throwing hand in an attempt to bunt. Never know when a pitch comes too far inside and their hand is broken. 

There really is no reason other than stubborn traditions to implement a universal DH. 

[Mike Sixel]

22 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Yeah but it's SOOOOO amazing to watch teams bunt!  In the same situation.  All the time.  So that the awful guy doesn't hit.  And starts the reliever train early.  And all the other marvelous "strategies" we hear so often about.

I would dare anyone to tell me what great "strategy" it would be every four minutes in a hockey that everyone played without sticks for a minute.  Or your QB had to throw left-handed every four drives.  Or NBA players shoot with their eyes closed.  Yeah, that ain't strategy.  

It isn't really strategy if 99% of the time the same choice is made, as you know, but others don't seem to grasp.

Pitchers hitting is awful for the game. It effectively takes two players out of the batting order as they pitch around the number 8 guy.