What Can The Twins Do With Marwin Gonzalez?

[Puckett34]

 

It's probably mentioned or described better in the study...but weren't the 'bangs' typically representing an offspeed pitch?  Does this bang study maybe indicate that Marwin saw the least fastballs?

Thats what I was wondering in my previous post above. I'm not trying to start a argument with anyone, this is just how I'm viewing this as well.

[jkcarew]

 

Uhh, those guys were punished. Big time. like 80 games. How many millions did that cost them?H

Uhh...were they punished by their teams or the league?

[nicksaviking]

 

I agree that there should be some sort of discipline for all the offending players, but I'm not sure what that is  

 

I don't think you can discipline the players, I'd think the best a team could do, if they wanted to do anything at all, is release the player and let him keep his salary.

[TFRazor]

 

Yeah...and dump Pineda and Cruz as well. Oh...and Polanco.

The league may (or may not) do something. The Twins should do nothing.

And Sano. He was suspected of something

[Brandon]

We should give Marwin the Nickname Trashcan Man. He can wear that like a Scarlett letter the rest of his career. We can make shirts, banners and the Twins can announce him that way when. He comes to bat...... Next up is number 9 Marwin the "Trashcan Man" Gonzales.

[Brandon]

Yeah, I'm more worried about the clubhouse angle. Based on that Phil Hughes tweet not every pitcher is taking this well, and Jose Berrios got taken advantage of in that same game that Hughes was stewing about.

 

I haven't seen if Odorizzi, Pineda, Bailey, Hill or any of the bullpen guys had outings significantly hurt by Houston's cheating, but at this point, if I want to push for an extension with Berrios, I hand him the rope to the guillotine and let him know that it's his decision should he want to make it.

. I like the last part of the quote. I just can't do that on my phone.

[Bickle19]

This whole thread just seems like a lot of pearl clutching to me. 

[Puckett34]

 

I don't think you can discipline the players, I'd think the best a team could do, if they wanted to do anything at all, is release the player and let him keep his salary.

Right, that's the conundrum. I don't really know what, if any is the appropriate punishment for the players themselves.

[Tovar12]

More importantly, we need to come up with a new walk up song for Marwin. I’ll start. Todd Rundgren’s “Bang on the drum all day”

[Craig Arko]

That's up to the league and the player's union to figure out.

 

He did just fine last season without the benefit of the trash cans. On the field, he'll continue to do just fine, I'd expect.

 

Team management should address the entire organization and emphasize that rules infractions won't be tolerated. From anybody.

[nicksaviking]

 

This whole thread just seems like a lot of pearl clutching to me. 

 

Well a bunch of pitchers around the league have been pearl clutching then, including Phil Hughes who specifically mentioned Jose Berrios as negatively impacted by this. So if your star pitcher, who you want to extend, happens to be dissatisfied about it you just tell him to stop his bellyaching?

[Mr. Brooks]

That's up to the league and the player's union to figure out.

 

He did just fine last season without the benefit of the trash cans. On the field, he'll continue to do just fine, I'd expect.

 

Team management should address the entire organization and emphasize that rules infractions won't be tolerated. From anybody.

I don't agree that he did just fine last year.

I can't speak to the team's expectations when they signed him, but I was expecting a bit better than 94 OPS+.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't agree that he did just fine last year.
I can't speak to the team's expectations when they signed him, but I was expecting a bit better than 94 OPS+.

 

Yeah, even if you put aside his salary, Adrianza was the better utility player last year and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be again this year. I'm not going to put much worry into the fate of the Twins 2nd best utility bench player.

[Jham]

Uhh...were they punished by their teams or the league?

I'm actually more concerned that the players aren't getting punished. Steroid use was a more rampant issue than advanced sign stealing. Those players got killed for it.

[bighat]

 

It's probably mentioned or described better in the study...but weren't the 'bangs' typically representing an offspeed pitch?  Does this bang study maybe indicate that Marwin saw the least fastballs?

I think this is correct - the guy with the most number of bangs doesn't necessarily mean he was helped the most. Non-bangs also meant something.

 

The whole team was cheating. Marwin spent an entire year NOT cheating with the Twins last year, and from May 1st on, he hit .285. He's a solid player and the Twins shouldn't worry about doing a darn thing.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Marwin spent an entire year NOT cheating with the Twins last year, and from May 1st on, he hit .285.

First of all, how does that compare to every other player when throwing out their worst month?

 

Secondly, do we really know that Marwin wasn't cheating last year? Obviously the Twins as a team weren't banging on trash cans together, but Marwin privately could have had a clubhouse guy watching a video feed and sending him signals somehow. Maybe he started a month into the season so he could hit .285 the rest of the way. I'm not saying he did it, but I'm not comfortable drawing a conclusion on way or the other.

 

I am comfortable saying he won't be doing it in 2020, and I also agree with you and others generally that the Twins can't and don't need to do much of anything about him, other than let him play out his contract.

[bighat]

 

 

 

Secondly, do we really know that Marwin wasn't cheating last year? Obviously the Twins as a team weren't banging on trash cans together, but Marwin privately could have had a clubhouse guy watching a video feed and sending him signals somehow. Maybe he started a month into the season so he could hit .285 the rest of the way. I'm not saying he did it, but I'm not comfortable drawing a conclusion on way or the other.

So between these two options:

 

A:  Marwin played baseball exactly like 100% of his teammates last year.

 

OR

 

B: Marwin secretly hired a clandestine operative last year to work as his private personal fixer. This secret agent was hiding in the stands for 162 games, communicating with Marwin via lights, hand-signals, and low-frequency beeps, while also remaining hidden from all teammates and managers.

 

For me, I think option A is far more likely. Could Marwin have been cheating last year? Possible - yes. Likely? No. He also could have flown to Mongolia during the All-Star break as well and stayed for 3 nights in a Yurt. I mean, it's possible - just unlikely. I submit that it's very unlikely that Marwin cheated last year, and we shouldn't automatically assume something sinister took place when there's no evidence to suggest it.
 

[Craig Arko]

 

First of all, how does that compare to every other player when throwing out their worst month?

 

Secondly, do we really know that Marwin wasn't cheating last year? Obviously the Twins as a team weren't banging on trash cans together, but Marwin privately could have had a clubhouse guy watching a video feed and sending him signals somehow. Maybe he started a month into the season so he could hit .285 the rest of the way. I'm not saying he did it, but I'm not comfortable drawing a conclusion on way or the other.

 

I am comfortable saying he won't be doing it in 2020, and I also agree with you and others generally that the Twins can't and don't need to do much of anything about him, other than let him play out his contract.

On the other hand Twins Daily needs to be better than even suggesting unsubstantiated allegations. As part of that whole 'honesty in media' thing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So between these two options:

 

A:  Marwin played baseball exactly like 100% of his teammates last year.

 

OR

 

B: Marwin secretly hired a clandestine operative last year to work as his private personal fixer. This secret agent was hiding in the stands for 162 games, communicating with Marwin via lights, hand-signals, and low-frequency beeps, while also remaining hidden from all teammates and managers.

Yeah, those aren't the only two options. And if you want to characterize my position like that, we should just drop this line of conversation.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

On the other hand Twins Daily needs to be better than even suggesting unsubstantiated allegations. As part of that whole 'honesty in media' thing.

Saying "we don't really know", in response to a declaration that he was 100% clean in 2019, is hardly an allegation.

[DocBauer]

Not only do I think the Twins really can't do anything to Marwin, I don't believe they should.

 

I despise cheating. Now, to be clear, if a runner was on 2B and picked up a sign and relayed it to the batter and guessed right, that's part of the game. If the defense in a football game figure out an audible or hears a snap count, that's part of the game. But deliberate cheating is reprehensible to me.

 

I think the Astros should have been fined more, but ready somewhere they couldn't be. (Don't know if that is accurate). I thought they should have lost additional picks as well as international $. Why wasn't the assistant GM or any coaches indicted?

 

But at some point, the hunt for responsibility and punishment has to stop somewhere. Marwin having more "bangs" doesn't mean much, as someone pointed out, because pitch selection to various hitters may have been more or less bangs. Futher, while I do not exonerate Marwin or any other player on the Astros, we simply don't know the degree to which they were involved. While hearing the indicators might have assisted anyone regardless, maybe some of the guys really didn't want to play along. I imagine it would be rather hard to tell your teammates and coaches how wrong they were.

 

End of day, I think there should have been additional punishments, or stronger ones. But I believe the right parties, for the most part, were addressed. The buck, or bang, stops with the GM and manager as they are the ones who run the show.

[bighat]

 

Yeah, those aren't the only two options. And if you want to characterize my position like that, we should just drop this line of conversation.

Sorry to come off as insulting or smug. My bad. But I feel that to hint that Marwin was cheating while with the Twins last year is just.....way, way out there. Again I apologize for going full "toxic internet" there. I am sure there was a better response and I should have thought about it before posting.

[willmarmn]

It seems to me that the Twins could file suit against the Astros as they are ultimately responsible for the cheating which took place and had a significant impact on Marwin's stats at least during 2017. One could argue that his value was inflated when he became a free agent after the 2018 season!  If they did file suit, I would guess, that it would be settled with either some financial compensation or a prospect coming to the Twins!  Phil

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sorry to come off as insulting or smug. My bad. But I feel that to hint that Marwin was cheating while with the Twins last year is just.....way, way out there. Again I apologize for going full "toxic internet" there. I am sure there was a better response and I should have thought about it before posting.

No prob!

 

And I'm not really trying to hint at or allege anything. Just saying, we don't know. I wouldn't say he cheated in 2019, but at the same time, since his 2017-2018 cheating had not yet been exposed, I'm not sure we can really conclude that he didn't try some level of cheating in 2019 either.

 

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt starting in 2020, now that the cheating has been exposed, it's unlikely to be attempted again so soon!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Remember how Marwin was the one who called the suspended Pineda on FaceTime during our division title celebration? Does seem like an interesting juxtaposition now!

[Squirrel]

Remember how Marwin was the one who called the suspended Pineda on FaceTime during our division title celebration? Does seem like an interesting juxtaposition now!

I never knew you to be a conspiracy theorist!