This Ain't Over

[ewen21]

A few of us were saying to be cautious. As I said back then, this team reminds me of the 2001 Twins who had the exact same start as this team but did not make the playoffs.

 

 

It's the feeling I get, too. This team really has little in common with that bunch, but this group is dangerously close to being on that path.

 

I also want to say this....

By being skeptical about our chances today (due to a variety of factors discussed here daily) it in no way means I have given up or turned on this team. Same with anyone else who comes here and passionately follows this team.

 

This has been a fun season. I love watching a team that can hit some home runs and I hoe for the best. However, as I continue to watch how things are progressing it seems like the weaknesses are far more pronounced to now and we are missing two very key players who will be out for a while. Berrios isn't looking good at all and his velocity is way down. Our bullpen is flat out weak and taxed. Cleveland has all the momentum right now.

 

Not sure how any of that can be considered "being negative"...

It's just a fair assessment of what's going on right now

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Although Santana is a better player than Eric Fox ever was, yesterday's game will be this year's Eric Fox game from 1992.

 

Coincidentally, the Twins were tied for the division lead following that game and it happened in late July.

Coincidentally a baserunning mistake too -- just before the Fox HR, Knoblauch made the last out of the 8th inning at third too, with Mack and Puckett due up. (And Eric Fox with the outfield assist.)

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Isn't that what we said to them in the 9th inning, though? Our third base coach just got a little too excited about saying it, I suppose!

 

Maybe, but the way the series went, I feel like Cleveland kind of dominated it. It was all we could do to get back into that game. We did, then they went ahead and told them NOPE!

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

Coincidentally a baserunning mistake too -- just before the Fox HR, Knoblauch made the last out of the 8th inning at third too, with Mack and Puckett due up. (And Eric Fox with the outfield assist.)

 

It is all too similar.

[yarnivek1972]

That would be OK. But both Rosario and Kepler hit lefties OK, so I think it's fine.

Yes, but Sano and Cron both hit LHP far better than RHP. So, if the opponent tries to bring in that lefty for Kepler or Rosario they will either have to make another change or let their lefty face a guy that crushes LHP.

[Nine of twelve]

I'm going to add one point to this discussion. That point: it's only a game.

This is not to discount the passion (or joy, or frustration) that many fans feel, but this is not something to be angry about.

It was during the 1986 season when I came to the realization that how the Twins did on a given day made a difference in my life. And that was not good. I convinced myself just to enjoy baseball for the great sport that it is and not let a bad loss make me grumpy. And while I was enthusiastically overjoyed in 1987 this point of view helped me stay even-keel during the 1990's and 2010's. And yesterday.

We have a team that is worth watching. That is more than I need, and any achievements that the team accomplishes from here on out is even more of a bonus.

[ewen21]

I'm going to add one point to this discussion. That point: it's only a game.

This is not to discount the passion (or joy, or frustration) that many fans feel, but this is not something to be angry about.

It was during the 1986 season when I came to the realization that how the Twins did on a given day made a difference in my life. And that was not good. I convinced myself just to enjoy baseball for the great sport that it is and not let a bad loss make me grumpy. And while I was enthusiastically overjoyed in 1987 this point of view helped me stay even-keel during the 1990's and 2010's. And yesterday.

We have a team that is worth watching. That is more than I need, and any achievements that the team accomplishes from here on out is even more of a bonus.

You are correct. It is only a game

 

If someone wants to say this team is toast no one should get offended or upset because it's just a game

 

(I don't believe we are toast, but the way)

 

And for the record.....

I kind of like game thread freakouts. I'm one of those guys who finds humor in that. I guess some people like chocolate, some like vanilla....I'm rocky road

[ewen21]

I learned to stop getting worked up about sports long ago. When the game is going on I might get a little emotional on occasion. I am entirely ok with it.

 

I think some folks mistake those who turn into skeptics (about this team) are somehow angry or bitter. That couldn't be further from the truth in my case at this moment in my life.

[jkcarew]

 

Coincidentally a baserunning mistake too -- just before the Fox HR, Knoblauch made the last out of the 8th inning at third too, with Mack and Puckett due up. (And Eric Fox with the outfield assist.)

I'll go with a 2006 analogy. White Sox were coming off their World Series win and had a good team...at or near the division lead pretty much all year. The Mauer/Morneau Twins hadn't yet accomplished anything. In late July, the Twins went to Chicago for a 3-game set, down by three in the standings. They left tied...and the race was effectively over between Chicago and the Twins. In the 3rd game of that series, we had Carlos Silva going against Buehrle. Didn't matter. Morneau was being an MVP that day.

 

Of course that was the upstart saying "we're taking over". In this case, Cleveland played the role of the incumbent...and the upstart did not make that statement. Oh, well. We'll see. The script could still flip.

[spanman2]

26 games left against CHI/DET/KC...it is baseball and anything can/does happen...Baltimore beating Houston in Houston vs. Verlander a recent example.  with that being said...6 left against Cleveland...we need to go 3-3 at worst and win at a .650-.700 clip vs. our other division foes!  With 44 left I think we need to win around 27 of those...I think 27-17 gets it done.  I just don't see Cleveland sustaining the great run they have been on for an additional 25% of the season...you would think they gotta hit a stretch where they go say 4-8 or something like that.  WIN TWINS!  

[Jham]

Question: Do we pick up Martin Perez's option at the end of the year? Are we down to 1 pitcher next season?

 

We better figure this out. Might be this core's only chance.

[yarnivek1972]

26 games left against CHI/DET/KC...it is baseball and anything can/does happen...Baltimore beating Houston in Houston vs. Verlander a recent example. with that being said...6 left against Cleveland...we need to go 3-3 at worst and win at a .650-.700 clip vs. our other division foes! With 44 left I think we need to win around 27 of those...I think 27-17 gets it done. I just don't see Cleveland sustaining the great run they have been on for an additional 25% of the season...you would think they gotta hit a stretch where they go say 4-8 or something like that. WIN TWINS!

Why can’t Cleveland sustain? They might have the best rotation in MLB right now. And they probably get a two time Cy Young winner back in a week or two. Their starting pitching is going to make them a favorite to win just about every game they play.

 

btw, I’ll bet a lot of people in August 2006 said the Twins wouldn’t keep playing .700 ball (as they had been since mid June after letting Juan Castro and Tony Batista go). But they did.

[Vanimal46]

Question: Do we pick up Martin Perez's option at the end of the year? Are we down to 1 pitcher next season?

 

We better figure this out. Might be this core's only chance.

I wouldn't. I'd rather sign 3 darts at $2 million a piece over paying him $7.5 million.

[Number3]

Bosox win tonight, Twins back in first.

 

Seems to be a lot of concern about playing the Yankees in the playoffs. Ever heard of the Houston Astros? Realistically can't expect Twins to beat either of those teams in a 5 or 7 game series. Not this year.

Goal 1: Remains win the Central

Backup: Home field wild card as of today v Oakland or Tampa

Accomplish goal 1 or backup-then Twins are playing with house money as far as I am concerned. No matter who they would play in ALDS, just be lose and have fun. ALCS, be loser and funner.

 

Main thing, don't take goal 1 or backup for granted. Closing the season out strong is more important than what they would do in the playoffs.

[yarnivek1972]

Bosox win tonight, Twins back in first.

 

Seems to be a lot of concern about playing the Yankees in the playoffs. Ever heard of the Houston Astros? Realistically can't expect Twins to beat either of those teams in a 5 or 7 game series. Not this year.

Goal 1: Remains win the Central

Backup: Home field wild card as of today v Oakland or Tampa

Accomplish goal 1 or backup-then Twins are playing with house money as far as I am concerned. No matter who they would play in ALDS, just be lose and have fun. ALCS, be loser and funner.

 

Main thing, don't take goal 1 or backup for granted. Closing the season out strong is more important than what they would do in the playoffs.

If the Twins win the Central they would likely face the Yankees because the Astros figure to have the overall best record and thus face the wild card game winner.

 

The Astros and Yankees currently have the same record, but Houston’s schedule is far easier. Including 10 games with the White Sox, Tigers and Royals. Other than their own division rivals Texas and Oakland (only 10 remaining games combined) the only games Houston plays with teams above .500 are 3 with the Rays and 2 in Milwaukee. So, 15 out of 40 or so.

 

 

The Yankees have 6 with Oakland, 3 with the Dodgers and 4 with Cleveland all before September 2. Plus, they have series IN Boston and Tampa awaiting them in September. They are done with both at home.

[tlkriens]

Twins are 44-16 vs. sub .500 teams. The best record in baseball. I think that's important.

26 games of the final 44 fall into that category., not counting four vs. Texas.

 

Indians have 19 of those games.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

Question: Do we pick up Martin Perez's option at the end of the year? Are we down to 1 pitcher next season?

We better figure this out. Might be this core's only chance.

 

No, absolutely no.

[JW24]

 

I wouldn't. I'd rather sign 3 darts at $2 million a piece over paying him $7.5 million.

 

I have no problem moving on from Perez after this season, but I don't think the Twins will find much for $2M in free agency, let alone 3 guys for that price I would rather watch pitch than Perez.

 

$7.5M might be a high price to pay for a bullpen arm, but he could also be a trade piece next year if he pitches well out of the pen to start the year. That would be my preferred option.

[Vanimal46]

I have no problem moving on from Perez after this season, but I don't think the Twins will find much for $2M in free agency, let alone 3 guys for that price I would rather watch pitch than Perez.

 

$7.5M might be a high price to pay for a bullpen arm, but he could also be a trade piece next year if he pitches well out of the pen to start the year. That would be my preferred option.

They would be eye rolling induced signings from TD faithful for sure. But every year there are low risk gems out there like Daniel Hudson, Dan Ortero, Sergio Romo, etc. Falvintony has gotta identify and keep them... That's why we pay them the medium bucks.

 

I just don't see Perez being an asset in the bullpen and won't be easily traded without eating some cash.

[Thegrin]

Over ?  Of course its not over.  It officially just got interesting. 

[Platoon]

Bluto: Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

 

Twins fans words to live by!

[Jham]

Indians about to grab first place alone...

[yarnivek1972]

Indians about to grab first place alone...

It’s only 3 runs. Keep in mind the Indians top two relievers both pitched quite a bit yesterday too.

[howeda7]

I would certainly not pick up the option on Perez. I would offer Gibson a 3/$30-ish type extension. I think Odorizzi will cost more and is not that much better. If they want to contend next year, they will have to pony up for a legit #1/#2 starter in FA.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It’s only 3 runs. Keep in mind the Indians top two relievers both pitched quite a bit yesterday too.

The Red Sox pen pitched quite a bit yesterday too -- a very short start from Cashner (1.2 innings) and their game went 10 innings as well.

[John Kelsey]

One run game in Cleveland. 

[yarnivek1972]

I would certainly not pick up the option on Perez. I would offer Gibson a 3/$30-ish type extension. I think Odorizzi will cost more and is not that much better. If they want to contend next year, they will have to pony up for a legit #1/#2 starter in FA.

Odorizzi will cost more because he’s considerably younger. Gibson turns 32 in October. You really want to see what he’s like for THREE more years? I’d QO him and if he declines in search for a bigger payday, that’s the way it goes. Odds are we’ve seen the best of Kyle Gibson. He’s not Verlander or Greinke. I doubt he ages well.

 

I honestly doubt 3/30 would do anything but make him laugh. Jason Castro is on a 3/24 contract. Probably take at least 3/45 and he simply isn’t THAT good.

[Jham]

Odorizzi will cost more because he’s considerably younger. Gibson turns 32 in October. You really want to see what he’s like for THREE more years? I’d QO him and if he declines in search for a bigger payday, that’s the way it goes. Odds are we’ve seen the best of Kyle Gibson. He’s not Verlander or Greinke. I doubt he ages well.

 

I honestly doubt 3/30 would do anything but make him laugh. Jason Castro is on a 3/24 contract. Probably take at least 3/45 and he simply isn’t THAT good.

Well we have to do something. Smeltzer and Thorpe aren't that good either. Graterol might not get to 100 innings this season. Duran and Alcala are probably relievers. We could have the same line up back. makes it even worse that we stood pat at the trade deadline instead of aggressively adding pitching.

[Jham]

Watching the Indians win is as frustrating as watching the Twins lose... Same play as last night except 2 outs and they still held their guy.

[yarnivek1972]

I’ve been saying for 20 years that if your team can’t develop starting pitchers, they are toast because no one is giving them away. They got lucky on Johan with rule 5. Baker was decent. Then Gibson and Berrios. If there is someone else that came up through the org and was better than avg for at least 3 full seasons over the last 20 years, I can’t think of him. Lohse wasn’t. Liriano was good for one year and part of two.