Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Happy 25th birthday Byron.

the depressing part is that he was born after we last won a WS...  

 

the even more depressing part is that I share his birthday and remember the WS... 

[AlwaysinModeration]

the depressing part is that he was born after we last won a WS...

 

the even more depressing part is that I share his birthday and remember the WS...

Quit the depression talk...happy birthday, diehard!

[USAFChief]

 

the depressing part is that he was born after we last won a WS...  

 

the even more depressing part is that I share his birthday and remember the WS... 

You're 25??

 

You look, uh....much older.

[snap4birds]

Looking at his splits....what if he is handed the starting CF job and is slashing around 200/250/310 in June?  Do you keep running him out there?  His 2nd half splits are significantly better.  It might be best for his confidence and performance to start him out in the minor leagues.  There are only about 500 plate appearances for each half for him, when do 1st half/2nd half splits gain significance?  

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

Looking at his splits....what if he is handed the starting CF job and is slashing around 200/250/310 in June? Do you keep running him out there? His 2nd half splits are significantly better. It might be best for his confidence and performance to start him out in the minor leagues. There are only about 500 plate appearances for each half for him, when do 1st half/2nd half splits gain significance?

If he's OPSing below .600 in June you send him to Rochester again and write him off as someone with star potential. Then head into 2020 looking for his replacement.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Looking at his splits....what if he is handed the starting CF job and is slashing around 200/250/310 in June?  Do you keep running him out there?  His 2nd half splits are significantly better.  It might be best for his confidence and performance to start him out in the minor leagues.  There are only about 500 plate appearances for each half for him, when do 1st half/2nd half splits gain significance?  

 

Personally, I'd burn the option and have someone else starting in CF until Buxton earns it... that doesn't sound like what will happen though... and in this scenario, he gets sent down...

 

Honestly, if his confidence is the main factor for worrying about this decision, then I think it's safe to say he won't make it in the majors. 

[AlwaysinModeration]

 

If he's OPSing below .600 in June you send him to Rochester again and write him off as someone with star potential. Then head into 2020 looking for his replacement.

 

I am sure the Yankees will be more than happy to take him off of the Twins' hands if he posts two months of sub 600 OPS next year.  

 

It would provide some nice parallel structure.  On June 12, 2015, (after starting the year -- his age 25 season -- in Rochester, through May 12), Aaron Hicks was demoted.  His OPS was .599.  Then the Twins traded him at the end of the year...even though he OPSed 750+ down the stretch.

 

With the Yankees as a 26 year old in 2016 he OPSed 617.  Then 864 and 833 the last two seasons.

[Vanimal46]

I am sure the Yankees will be more than happy to take him off of the Twins' hands if he posts two months of sub 600 OPS next year.

 

It would provide some nice parallel structure. On June 12, 2015, (after starting the year -- his age 25 season -- in Rochester, through May 12), Aaron Hicks was demoted. His OPS was .599. Then the Twins traded him at the end of the year...even though he OPSed 750+ down the stretch.

 

With the Yankees as a 26 year old in 2016 he OPSed 617. Then 864 and 833 the last two seasons.

Not everyone is a late bloomer, and not everyone figures out how to hit consistently at the MLB level. In this hypothetical scenario where Buxton's OPSing below .600 in June, the Twins can't continue thinking he'll be a star. That's not to say he can't be a contributor on a good MLB team, but the Twins are operating under the assumption Sano and him will be stars.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Looking at his splits....what if he is handed the starting CF job and is slashing around 200/250/310 in June?  Do you keep running him out there?  His 2nd half splits are significantly better.  It might be best for his confidence and performance to start him out in the minor leagues.  There are only about 500 plate appearances for each half for him, when do 1st half/2nd half splits gain significance?  

 

I don't think you can start him in the minors.  One of the consequences of manipulating his service time was basically guaranteeing him a job out of ST.  If you don't, then you might as well cut him.  Keeping him in AAA to start the season will probably destroy his confidence as a player and his desire to succeed a Twin.

 

I know there will be some who scoff at his likely emotional reaction to that scenario, but Byron is also a human.  If this is going to work to motivate him....you simply have to give him the opportunity.  Or it's all for nothing.

[AlwaysinModeration]

 

Not everyone is a late bloomer, and not everyone figures out how to hit consistently at the MLB level. In this hypothetical scenario where Buxton's OPSing below .600 in June, the Twins can't continue thinking he'll be a star. That's not to say he can't be a contributor on a good MLB team, but the Twins are operating under the assumption Sano and him will be stars.

Even in this hypothetical situation where he is OPSing under 600 in June, he will still be a 25 year old with 1600 ABs of 875 OPS in the minors and 1200 ABs of 665 OPS in the majors. Maybe he won't ever get up to 875 in the majors, but my money is on the likelihood he starts posting seasonal OPS of 750+ sooner rather than later, with >800 OPS well within his reach.  

 

I wouldn't say Hicks is a late bloomer, either - he reached his full potential in his age 27 and 28 seasons, right when he should have.  Buxton is still two years away from hitting his prime.

[Riverbrian]

Looking at his splits....what if he is handed the starting CF job and is slashing around 200/250/310 in June? Do you keep running him out there? His 2nd half splits are significantly better. It might be best for his confidence and performance to start him out in the minor leagues. There are only about 500 plate appearances for each half for him, when do 1st half/2nd half splits gain significance?

If those are his stats... I will thank my lucky stars that the Twins took my advice and signed Pollack or traded for Keon Broxton or someone.

 

I’m also grateful that Jake Cave is down in Rochester waiting for an easy call up when we send Buxton down.

[ewen21]

 

Even in this hypothetical situation where he is OPSing under 600 in June, he will still be a 25 year old with 1600 ABs of 875 OPS in the minors and 1200 ABs of 665 OPS in the majors. Maybe he won't ever get up to 875 in the majors, but my money is on the likelihood he starts posting seasonal OPS of 750+ sooner rather than later, with >800 OPS well within his reach.  

 

I wouldn't say Hicks is a late bloomer, either - he reached his full potential in his age 27 and 28 seasons, right when he should have.  Buxton is still two years away from hitting his prime.

That's all well and good, but he was billed as a marquee guy with generational talent.

 

And then you see guys like Francisco Lindor come up already polished and he is the same age.  Guys like Betts, Machado, Bryant, Bogearts, Machado a year older and all pretty much established hitters.  Even younger guys like Benetiendi, Correa, Seager, Bregman, Baez all have more hits than he does already. 

 

Let's face it.  The amount of hype generated for Buxton was ridiculous and now it's time to lower the bar, I guess.  Good thing my bar was never elevated so high.  I hoped he'd be good/  That was all.

 

As Buxton said himself:

"I ain't gonna sugarcoat nothin"

 

It's time to follow his lead

[ewen21]

 

If those are his stats... I will thank my lucky stars that the Twins took my advice and signed Pollack or traded for Keon Broxton or someone.

I’m also grateful that Jake Cave is down in Rochester waiting for an easy call up when we send Buxton down.

It's not our fault or the Twins fault he just doesn't hit out of the gate.  It is a VERY real issue and he needs to get over it.  His numbers in the first month are absolutely preposterous:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=month%7CApril%2FMarch%7Cbuxtoby01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C

We cannot live with that.  I don't care if he poops gold ingots in the field.

His first half numbers are also very troubling:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=half%7C1st%20Half%7Cbuxtoby01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C

 

It's important he doesn't come up and start pressing again.

 

 

[ewen21]

Whether or not his anger toward the Twins is justified or not is completely immaterial.  He has now put the burden squarely on his shoulders with that little gripe session at the children's hospital.  He reintroduced this discussion to Twins Territory and the Twins handed him his job on a silver platter.  If he does what he's done to date in every single season during the first half then he will need to be sent down and he will have only himself to blame

 

 

[laloesch]

 

The Twins ****ed with his service time. Full stop. He was hitting well in AAA and then they claimed he was playing hurt, which, if true, means the entire front office should've been fired for making him play hurt. The ML roster had injuries to their OFers so Grossman was starting in the corners. They promoted Johnny Field, who was playing worse than Buxton in AAA, instead of Buxton. The Twins had every right to do what they did but it was still a dick move and we'll see if it poisoned the relationship in a few years.

 

I'm not as concerned about it. He may be "pissed off" but he hasn't consistently produced at the major league level and if he gets angry about this and it's extra motivation to do better at the MLB level it might be a blessing in disguise.

 

Speaking from the hypothetical I'm more old school mindset. If you aren't producing and get a kick in the rear end after getting many pats on the back you should take it in stride and man up and do the hard work necessary to improve. Lots of people respond differently to motivation but there are WAY too many soft coddled people nowadays. It's no different then when you go to college to learn a major and some hard life lessons in the process before going out into the work force and doing the same thing again but on a different level and the stakes are much higher. 

 

I don't fault the Twins at all for keeping him in AAA and then shutting him down early to save a year on service time. He had injury issues this season and hadn't produced at all at the major league level and they were being cautious in addition to the service time save.

 

Like it or not we've seen bits and pieces of his potential but also long dragged out periods of utter mediocrity. The Twins wanted to squeeze one more season out of him before he becomes a free agent and a chance to see if he's going to reach his full potential. It's actually a prudent move from the front office in my opinion (i'm not going to get into the debate about the money and who is in the right or wrong, their all millionaires).

 

If he can't deal with that then he needs to grow a thicker skin and learn to deal with it. We call it "constructive criticism" and you have to learn to deal with it in the A&E fields if you want to make it as an Architect, Landscape Architect, Planner, Engineer, etc.

[AlwaysinModeration]

That's all well and good, but he was billed as a marquee guy with generational talent.

 

And then you see guys like Francisco Lindor come up already polished and he is the same age. Guys like Betts, Machado, Bryant, Bogearts, Machado a year older and all pretty much established hitters. Even younger guys like Benetiendi, Correa, Seager, Bregman, Baez all have more hits than he does already.

 

Touché. He definitely hasn’t had the same immediate success as some other players his age.

[rugbymikes]

 

If those are his stats... I will thank my lucky stars that the Twins took my advice and signed Pollack or traded for Keon Broxton or someone.

I’m also grateful that Jake Cave is down in Rochester waiting for an easy call up when we send Buxton down.

Why is Cave relegated to AAA?

 

Should he not be given an opportunity to compete for the RF/4th OF position? 

 

Last season was his rookie season with a new organization and he faired reasonably well. If he can lower his Ks/increase BBs and focus on better ABs vs. LHP he has a great future. He made some dynamic plays over the wall during his first week up and his style of play is definitely fun to watch.

 

Looking at his Avg HR distance and power index for balls in play there some great power potential for just turning 26. 

 

Still think they should consider giving him reps at 1B with his athleticism and LH glove.

[yarnivek1972]

I don't think you can start him in the minors. One of the consequences of manipulating his service time was basically guaranteeing him a job out of ST. If you don't, then you might as well cut him. Keeping him in AAA to start the season will probably destroy his confidence as a player and his desire to succeed a Twin.

 

I know there will be some who scoff at his likely emotional reaction to that scenario, but Byron is also a human. If this is going to work to motivate him....you simply have to give him the opportunity. Or it's all for nothing.

If he doesn’t have at least some success as a Twin, he may find that no other team will give him a chance. The previous regime gave up on Hicks because they failed to recognize his improved K rate as development. They also believed Buxton was the next Willie Mays.

[Riverbrian]

Why is Cave relegated to AAA?

 

Should he not be given an opportunity to compete for the RF/4th OF position?

 

Last season was his rookie season with a new organization and he faired reasonably well. If he can lower his Ks/increase BBs and focus on better ABs vs. LHP he has a great future. He made some dynamic plays over the wall during his first week up and his style of play is definitely fun to watch.

 

Looking at his Avg HR distance and power index for balls in play there some great power potential for just turning 26.

 

Still think they should consider giving him reps at 1B with his athleticism and LH glove.

Yes he should be given the chance to compete for a position and playing time.

 

Jake Cave was a godsend for us last year. I’m a fan.

 

However he has options. This allows the team to place him in Rochester and it allows the team to call him when we have an injury and it allows the team to sign another player and we have increased depth.

 

If you have increased depth... it doesn’t hurt your team as much when Eddie Rosario goes down for a month. It keeps the Motters of the world off the 25 man.

 

The alternative to my suggestion is saying Cave is good enough. Wade struggling in Rochester. Rosario getting hurt and then we have a player off the scrap heap that manager won’t play on the 25 man because we said “good enough and stopped trying to get even better... like the Twins have done every single year.

 

Same for Astundillo. I love him... he was fantastic. I fought for his playing time last year. But he has options and this means you can hold him as depth.

 

Because the alternative is a Bobby Wilson type getting a 25 man roster spot when Castro gets hurt again.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You're 25??

 

You look, uh....much older.

and how can one be 25 and remember 1991? We need to investigate this time traveling device

[DrNeau]

 

Whether or not his anger toward the Twins is justified or not is completely immaterial.  He has now put the burden squarely on his shoulders with that little gripe session at the children's hospital.  He reintroduced this discussion to Twins Territory and the Twins handed him his job on a silver platter.  If he does what he's done to date in every single season during the first half then he will need to be sent down and he will have only himself to blame

 

According to the Duluth News Tribune, what do Twins want from Byron Buxton? "I have no idea", he says. 

 

But Twins chief baseball officer Derek Falvey and general manager Thad Levine decided not to bring him back, ending his season on Sept. 3. Buxton said being notified of the decision “kind of didn’t go over well” but added that he and the team have “turned the page.” Still, he said, they’re yet not on the same page. Asked if he knows what the Twins expect of him, Buxton said, “I have no idea what they want now. I stayed in Triple-A for four months. What do you expect? What can you want?” Buxton said he expects to be at TwinsFest Jan. 25-17 but added, “I won’t be as quiet as I have been.”

 

--

 

So according to Buxton, he doesn't know what the Twins want. Also, he's not going to be quiet anymore. Okay. Where exactly is this guy's head right now? Is he going to sound off at Twins Fest, too?

 

 

[yarnivek1972]

Buxton needs to shut his mouth and improve his game. The rest will take care of itself.

[SomeGuy]

Even if he is OPSing under .600 I think he needs to be our CF next year.  We can handle him as a light hitting 9th hitter who can steal 25+ bases and provide best in baseball defense at the premier position.  It would be hard to swallow because he is supposed to be a great hitter but he would be valuable as is.  I don't think continuing to bat .315 with an OPS of .900 at AAA is going to be what makes him take the final step offensively.

 

We are pretty strong offensively at the other "Defense First" positions of catcher and Shortstop.  I think one light hitting but elite defender is manageable. 

 

Jake Cave is not good defensively, he was below average in UZR and dWAR.  I like him as a 4th OF and DH pairing with Tyler Austin.

 

It will be tough for a lot of Twins fans if or when Buxton never becomes the "annual MVP candidate"  that he was billed as.  Like all prospects, there is potential to be good and potential to be bad.  Maybe a lesson for us to not assume the next 18-20 year olds are future Hall of Famers before they reach the Majors.  I still think Buxton can be great but we might be setting ourselves up for disappointment in the near future if we view top prospects only by their ceiling.

[DrNeau]

He has “no idea” what the Twins want. No idea. So we’ve got that going for us, which is nice.

[gil4]

 

He has “no idea” what the Twins want. No idea. So we’ve got that going for us, which is nice.

Pass a note to Byron - we want him to stop flailing at sliders low and away. The rest will most likely take care of itself.

[ewen21]

Not only Twins will be an embarrassment to Major League Baseball if they play Buxton everyday with a .500something, but it will likely do irreparable him and destroy accountability. What standard does this set?

 

Honestly, no one can convince me his glove is so magical that it's worth giving him four at bats at a game. No way he's going to neutralize a .500sometging OPS with defense. It isn't possible. He won't get nearly enough chances. CFers make less than 3 putouts a game. This is historical data. He'd need to steal at least 2 outs a week that NO OTHER CFer can make and he isn't doing that.

 

There is a very twisted perception about his defense. It's great, but at it its best it doesn't counter a .560 OPS. This is like Gardy trying to justify Punto playing and this is the kind of insanity the Twins must abandon

[jorgenswest]

Buxton’s career OPS is .672.

 

His glove and that OPS will help the Twins win games but I expect his OPS to be better. Steamer projects .710.

[Don Walcott]

 

Buxton’s career OPS is .672.

His glove and that OPS will help the Twins win games but I expect his OPS to be better. Steamer projects .710.

Thank you for the small dose of reality.

 

Now, let's get back to predicting historically terrible numbers for Buxton in 2019!

[Doomtints]

This organization has a severe communication problem. No organization, sports or not, can survive if people aren't talking to each other.

 

Buxton isn't the first player to say he has no idea what the organization wants from him. Sano was the last to learn he was moving to the OF and the last to learn he was moving back to 3B. Dozier said he had not spoken to Falvey or Levine *ever* while heated trade rumors were going on involving him.

 

All three of these players saw there performances take a nose dive in the 2nd year under the new regime......

[SomeGuy]

 

This organization has a severe communication problem. No organization, sports or not, can survive if people aren't talking to each other.

 

Buxton isn't the first player to say he has no idea what the organization wants from him. Sano was the last to learn he was moving to the OF and the last to learn he was moving back to 3B. Dozier said he had not spoken to Falvey or Levine *ever* while heated trade rumors were going on involving him.

 

All three of these players saw there performances take a nose dive in the 2nd year under the new regime......

All 3 players were dealing with injuries in 2018.  Assuming Dozier is being truthful about having knee issues throughout the season. 

 

Sano to outfield and back to 3B was not Falvey/Levine but still Sano was receptive to the idea.  It was not demanded of him.

 

Minnesota intends for Sano to begin the season as the starting right fielder, GM Terry Ryan told MLB.com. "He's bought in," Ryan said. "But we've certainly asked that question. You have to be on board with it and he's on board."