Twins Upset Over 9th Inning Bunt

[jimbo92107]

Best thing to beat shifts is to bunt where they leave the hole. Unless you're a fantastic home run hitter, this is an easy decision. The Twins failed to do that in their Monday loss, costing them the tying run. 

[jkcarew]

Meanwhile, not a fan at all of shifting in that situation.  Shifting there is almost as controversial as Dozier's comments IMO.  If it's stupid to shift there with a 2-run lead...and it most certainly is very stupid...then it should be just as stupid to do it with a 7-run lead.

 

Maybe's Dozier was deflecting because he had a hand in the decision to shift?  I have no reason to suspect this other than his reaction when it backfired and that it's not totally unheard of for an experienced infield 'captain' to make those calls within the game.  Total speculation, and I doubt it...but his stance on the outcome was curious, to say the least.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Plain and simple, Dozier comes across as a whiner. If that's his form of 'leadership', the Twins don't need it.

 

I think that's harsh at the end.  Dozier might be a very good leader, but he should consider leading another way too: knowing when to let something go and play baseball.  So much of the old school mentality is (to borrow a phrase I don't like, but seems as apt as any) so Snowflakian.  Grow up cupcake.  He bunted. Next time don't shift and next time tell the reporter that asks you that you have "no comment"

[Mr. Brooks]

Dozier clarified (and what most are missing) that the reason they were upset with the bunt was what happened in the top of the 9th inning.

 

LaMarre got a 2 out hit in the top of the 9th. They elected to not hold the runner on signalling that they had conceded and we were not to steal 2nd since we were up 7-0. Then they go and bunt for a hit against the shift.

 

It is the 2 contradictory actions that Baltimore employed in the 9th inning that upset the players. It wasn't the bunt itself.

But then we shifted, telling them that the game was very much not over.

[Mr. Brooks]

This is such a non story that the national media has grabbed on to.

 

You know who thinks the bunt was fine? Like 99.9999% of people, but somehow because Dozier answered a question it’s turned into a bizarre debate where basically everyone agrees.

 

I’m sure Dozier regrets ever having said anything. And likely has come around to the same view that 99.99% of us have

Well three Twins players (out of 25), didn't think the bunt was fine.

That's certainly less than 99.99%.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I support Dozier post-game quote 100%

Do you agree with his feelings or do you simply support his right to make his feelings known?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Do you agree with his feelings or do you simply support his right to make his feelings known?

Both. The Orioles were getting owned by Berrios all day, and the young guy who bunted should have went up there swinging. It was the 9th inning, there was one out, and the Orioles chances of winning were approximately zero whether he laid down a bunt hit or not.

 

Just go up there swinging.

 

That's it. There's really not much more to it than that.

[jimmer]

 

Both. The Orioles were getting owned by Berrios all day, and the young guy who bunted should have went up there swinging. It was the 9th inning, there was one out, and the Orioles chances of winning were approximately zero whether he laid down a bunt hit or not.

Just go up there swinging.

That's it. There's really not much more to it than that.

His goal should be to get on base, especially down by so many. That makes the bunt a perfectly good option especially when the defense has shifted.

 

Now, if you feel that he should have been swinging away because that was his best way to get on base, that's fine.  But Dozier is complaining cause he broke an unwritten rule by bunting.  It was a perfectly good strategy to get on base.

[gunnarthor]

Man, I bet we can get this thread to top the Joe Benson one.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Both. The Orioles were getting owned by Berrios all day, and the young guy who bunted should have went up there swinging. It was the 9th inning, there was one out, and the Orioles chances of winning were approximately zero whether he laid down a bunt hit or not.

Just go up there swinging.

That's it. There's really not much more to it than that.

IMO there's no situation where a hitter should purposely make their job (getting on base) more difficult just to appease the opponent. Flip it around, when a team gets a big lead their pitchers don't suddenly start grooving fastballs down the middle, and they don't stop trying to strike guys out. I don't understand why some think hitters need to give themselves up, especially when their team is trailing. 

 

These guys are professionals. If MN doesn't want to get beat on a bunt then don't shift in a way that allows hitters to do so. If they didn't want Sisco to get on base then maybe Berrios and the D could've done a better job of making sure he didn't. It really is that simple. 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Both. The Orioles were getting owned by Berrios all day, and the young guy who bunted should have went up there swinging. It was the 9th inning, there was one out, and the Orioles chances of winning were approximately zero whether he laid down a bunt hit or not.

Just go up there swinging.

That's it. There's really not much more to it than that.

 

Why even swing?  Why not just stand there and let Berrios pound you with three strikes so we can all go home?

 

I admit, I'm applying logic to something that is mired in absurdity.....

[diehardtwinsfan]

Can we try and not lose perspective over what Marney tweeted? I think we are making a bigger deal of this right now than the Twins' players were/are.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Can we try and not lose perspective over what Marney tweeted? I think we are making a bigger deal of this right now than the Twins' players were/are.

 

Three different Twins, under no threat of torture I am yet aware, willfully expressed their displeasure with this.

 

There should be zero displeasure.  Even if you do work yourself into an unwarranted lather about it, you have zero reason to voice that lather.  Three Twins decided to do so anyway.  Whether they were asked or not is irrelevant IMO.  They still have the ability to act like adults in their responses.  Their team chose to shift to maximize the chances of getting Sisco out.  Sisco bunted to maximize his chances of not getting out.

 

Sounds like everyone played fair.  That is the only acceptable answer to any question on the matter.

[USAFChief]

 

Three different Twins, under no threat of torture I am yet aware, willfully expressed their displeasure with this.

 

There should be zero displeasure.  Even if you do work yourself into an unwarranted lather about it, you have zero reason to voice that lather.  Three Twins decided to do so anyway.  Whether they were asked or not is irrelevant IMO.  They still have the ability to act like adults in their responses.  Their team chose to shift to maximize the chances of getting Sisco out.  Sisco bunted to maximize his chances of not getting out.

 

Sounds like everyone played fair.  That is the only acceptable answer to any question on the matter.

The only acceptable answer?

 

To you, perhaps.

 

To at least three people with actual major league experience, the answer is less certain.

[yarnivek1972]

Three different Twins, under no threat of torture I am yet aware, willfully expressed their displeasure with this.

 

There should be zero displeasure. Even if you do work yourself into an unwarranted lather about it, you have zero reason to voice that lather. Three Twins decided to do so anyway. Whether they were asked or not is irrelevant IMO. They still have the ability to act like adults in their responses. Their team chose to shift to maximize the chances of getting Sisco out. Sisco bunted to maximize his chances of not getting out.

 

Sounds like everyone played fair. That is the only acceptable answer to any question on the matter.

Somehow, they aren’t entitled to an opinion? Just because it may be misguided, doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to hold a different opinion. Respectful disagreement is one of the indicators of a free society.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Somehow, they aren’t entitled to an opinion? Just because it may be misguided, doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to hold a different opinion. Respectful disagreement is one of the indicators of a free society.

 

Sure, they can express it.  But then posters online shouldn't be rushing to give them cover for saying it because a reporter asked them first.  That absolves them of nothing.

[USAFChief]

 

Sure, they can express it.  But then posters online shouldn't be rushing to give them cover for saying it because a reporter asked them first.  That absolves them of nothing.

what do they need absolving from? Not agreeing with you?

[TheLeviathan]

 

The only acceptable answer?

 

To you, perhaps.

 

To at least three people with actual major league experience, the answer is less certain.

 

And to Bert, Paul Molitor, and a host of other people it makes their argument ridiculous.

 

And yes, the only non-ridiculous answer to that question is "So what?"  Getting in a huff about it is pathetic.  Their job is to not get out.  Your job is to get them out.  That's baseball. Asking them to make their own job harder for your benefit (while you, simultaneously, are still trying to make their job hard by shifting!) is absurd.  It's preposterous.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

what do they need absolving from? Not agreeing with you?

 

From whatever scrutiny people keep trying to protect them from by claiming they were asked first.

[jokin]

 

what do they need absolving from? Not agreeing with you?

 

How about absolution for 3 Twins knee-jerk defenses in response to some reporter jerk asking them a ridiculous question about defending a ridiculous and mysterious code of "unwritten rules?"

[jimmer]

 

And to Bert, Paul Molitor, and a host of other people it makes their argument ridiculous.

 

And yes, the only non-ridiculous answer to that question is "So what?"  Getting in a huff about it is pathetic.  Their job is to not get out.  Your job is to get them out.  That's baseball. Asking them to make their own job harder for your benefit (while you, simultaneously, are still trying to make their job hard by shifting!) is absurd.  It's preposterous.  

but, but, it's against the unwritten rules.  The defense can set up their defense unnaturally to try and play the odds, but you're not supposed to take advantage of it cause you're down by a lot.  Just give up boy, learn from the veterans :-)

[yarnivek1972]

And to Bert, Paul Molitor, and a host of other people it makes their argument ridiculous.

 

And yes, the only non-ridiculous answer to that question is "So what?" Getting in a huff about it is pathetic. Their job is to not get out. Your job is to get them out. That's baseball. Asking them to make their own job harder for your benefit (while you, simultaneously, are still trying to make their job hard by shifting!) is absurd. It's preposterous.

Sounds to me like the huff you are making is more than the huff they made.

 

They made a comment about the play, period. There was no reporting that I have seen that they made it out to be the most egregious breakage of baseball ettiquette in history. It was more than likely one of many comments made by all 3 players. As to why their other comments weren’t reported, you would have to ask the journalists in attendance.

[jokin]

The next step in enforcing the "unwritten rules" is having Sisco get plunked when the Twins play the Orioles in July.

 

("Long memories" for slights to the rules being yet another of the hallowed "unwritten rules"...)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sounds to me like the huff you are making is more than the huff they made.

They made a comment about the play, period. There was no reporting that I have seen that they made it out to be the most egregious breakage of baseball ettiquette in history. It was more than likely one of many comments made by all 3 players. As to why their other comments weren’t reported, you would have to ask the journalists in attendance.

 

I won't deny being in a huff about it.  I think it's absurd and baseball needs to move away from it.  Players need to be a lot less fragile about their egos and keep the game to this simple maxim:

 

Try to get them out.  Try not to get out.

 

Layering all this other nonsense on where Sisco "the kid" needs to get taught by someone.  Or "they" (usually the non-white players) need to play with more respect.  Preposterous.  Off-putting.  Soft.  Childish.  You pick the adjective.  It needs to go away. 

 

Get them out.  Don't get out.  Play ball.  Drop the rest.  Hopefully Dozier and the rest of the Twins play ball like that the rest of the year.

[Rosterman]

I guess you can criticize a player when the outfield plays in, hoping to throw a runner out at the plate, and the guy tries to hit a home run.

[RegularJoe62]

 

I also remember when Rosario took an open third with the shift on. Clean open base.That one sent Molitor into spasms, and I think Rosario either to the bench, or Rochester?

I don't know why this is an issue either. If there's a runner on second and you shift, you're giving away third. No reason not to take it unless you're sitting on a ten run lead or something.

[ewen21]

Hey, if the Twins were shifting the defense then they were not conceding.  Dozier felt the Orioles conceded, but we did not so that means it is still "game on"

 

The kid was well within his right to beat the shift any way he could.  That is baseball

[ewen21]

 

I won't deny being in a huff about it.  I think it's absurd and baseball needs to move away from it.  Players need to be a lot less fragile about their egos and keep the game to this simple maxim:

 

Try to get them out.  Try not to get out.

 

Layering all this other nonsense on where Sisco "the kid" needs to get taught by someone.  Or "they" (usually the non-white players) need to play with more respect.  Preposterous.  Off-putting.  Soft.  Childish.  You pick the adjective.  It needs to go away. 

 

Get them out.  Don't get out.  Play ball.  Drop the rest.  Hopefully Dozier and the rest of the Twins play ball like that the rest of the year.

This.  So this.

 

Can this be over already??

[ewen21]

Put it this way.  If we are behind 7-0 and Morrison lays down a bunt to beat the shift, I am saying:  "Good for him. He should do that again"

 

Anyone think Dozier or anyone on the Twins would think he did something wrong?  How could it be a veteran on the Orioles would want to correct that????

[Blackjack]

 

Man, I bet we can get this thread to top the Joe Benson one.

 

By the way, where did Joe Benson end up??