Jack Morris Elected to Hall of Fame

[jimmer]

Along with Alan Trammel.  Congrats to them both.

[jud6312]

I just don't understand how a guy with a 3.90 ERA, 0 Cy Youngs, and virtually none of the "milestone" numbers gets in. Congrats, I guess, but I just don't see it.

 

And, yes, I remember '91. But this postseason "domination" that everyone remembers so fondly? 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA.

 

 

[jimmer]

 

I just don't understand how a guy with a 3.90 ERA, 0 Cy Youngs, and virtually none of the "milestone" numbers gets in. Congrats, I guess, but I just don't see it.

 

And, yes, I remember '91. But this postseason "domination" that everyone remembers so fondly? 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA.

I don't think Morris deserves it either, but I still congratulate him anyway.

 

Wish Whitaker had made the ballot and got it with his double play partner.

[mudcat14]

Overdue!

[nicksaviking]

I did not see that coming for Morris. Trammel had gotten most of the post ballot love, I thought there was more of a divide on Morris.

 

Awesome news, good for Jack.

[Thrylos]

Good for them.  They might now put a premium to their autographs.

 

I just don't get the need for a back door to the hall of fame.

[Bill Brown69]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21732811/jack-morris-alan-trammell-elected-baseball-hall-fame-modern-era-committee

 

Why I the first to pick up this??

 

[Monkeypaws]

Wait what?! Hell yeah Bill Brown!

[USAFChief]

Congrats to both of them.

[Platoon]

I still believe that the Game 7 performance was the single best individual one I have witnessed. I always felt that he fought the home plate umpire all night over the corners, virtually daring him not to call it a strike. To me it seemed almost a battle of wills, which Morris eventually won. I doubt I will ever experience such intensity in an athletic setting again. Everything was aligned just so.

[rikker49]

Morris had the most WINS of any pitcher in the entire decade of the 80's. 3 World Series rings/3 different teams. Ace of those teams. Bulldog. '91 Game 7. Yeah, he deserves it. Congrats Jack!

[Bill Brown69]

The reality on Jack's case is 14 consecutive opening day starts for 3 different teams. All 3 of those teams won a World Series. 

 

Normal logic says you put your best pitcher out on opening day so he must have been viewed as the best pitcher for 14 years and 4 World Series winning teams.

 

Then there is that whole Game 7 thing. Sometimes a moment is big enough for a career.

 

Jack is by no means the best player in the Hall, but he is not even close to the worst either. He probably isn't the worst going in this year.

[Tom Froemming]

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers. I shared this on Twitter last night, here's some JAWS scores of just some Twins pitchers who were ranked above Morris:

 

Luis Tiant 55.7

Johan Santana 48.1

Jim Kaat 44.9

Frank Viola 44.4

Kenny Rogers 43.5

Brad Radke 40.9

Bartolo Colon 40.4

Camilo Pascual 39.9

Jack Morris 38.4

 

You get some much different results when looking at Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor, which only places Kaat above Morris. Neither metric is perfect but both provide some context, and no matter how you slice it, Morris going in lowers the bar in some respects. A lot of pitchers on the outside looking in saying "if he got in why not me?"

[ashbury]

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers.

Baseball should be celebrating its great players more, not less.

 

I'm in favor of a "big" HoF, and then a new Inner Circle that is more restrictive than the current Hall, which would recognize the current way we think of the hierarchy within the Hall anyway. It wouldn't eliminate arguments, but would frame the arguments in a more positive way for the game.

 

Until such a day, welcome to the Pantheon, Alan and Jack!

[gunnarthor]

 

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers. I shared this on Twitter last night, here's some JAWS scores of just some Twins pitchers who were ranked above Morris:

 

Luis Tiant 55.7

Johan Santana 48.1

Jim Kaat 44.9

Frank Viola 44.4

Kenny Rogers 43.5

Brad Radke 40.9

Bartolo Colon 40.4

Camilo Pascual 39.9

Jack Morris 38.4

 

You get some much different results when looking at Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor, which only places Kaat above Morris. Neither metric is perfect but both provide some context, and no matter how you slice it, Morris going in lowers the bar in some respects. A lot of pitchers on the outside looking in saying "if he got in why not me?"

And as I've pointed out before, fip based WAR has Morris much higher as well with guys like Hubbel and Palmer. I don't think Morris "lowers the bar" (although we'll see a few articles about that in the next few days) any more than Andre Dawson did. Morris' HOF candidacy was its own narrative, not always about the player himself. 

 

Morris and Trammell are actually fairly close HOF cases - both had 7 4+ WAR seasons (Morris in 16 seasons, Trammell in 18), career WAR totals are within margin of error of each other, neither would be in the upper half of their position in the hall but neither would be the worst. Admittedly, pitching standards have been held higher than any other position by the hall voters. Neither won any major regular season awards but both have a WS MVP. And the 80s as a decade have been underrepresented by hall voters so it's good to see them both in. 

[gunnarthor]

Bummer for Simmons. His election will help Mauer down the road.

 

[nicksaviking]

On the main ballot, a lower percentage of all players who played MLB baseball get in now than they did 30-40-50-60 years ago. There is 33% more players playing MLB baseball today than in 1968 and 47% more than in 1960, yet it seems the exclusivity standards didn't really change.

 

They didn't change despite the fact that the players getting in when these exclusivity standards were created weren't even playing in an integrated game, meaning they were missing out on playing some of the best competition yet setting the bar for everyone who eventually would.

 

I agree with the bigger Hall approach. 

[Don Walcott]

I'm very happy for both Jack and Trammel. They are both very important players from that era, which is underrepresented. I especially like that HOFers from their era were voting on them and their peers.

 

I already read a sour grapes article by Jay Jaffe. He and others are so wed to their own systems of thinking that they can't see the forest for the trees. It's not "new school" v. "old school". We're all fans, and maybe we value different things or see things differently. Get over it.

[PDX Twin]

IMHO, the HOF should not be just about statistics. It should be about which human beings should be recognized for extraordinary achievement on the baseball field. On one side, baseball is a game of numbers; one the other side it's a game of stories.

 

Morris had multiple extraordinary achievements and the 1991 Game 7 was a historic performance, the kind that creates a memorable story for all of us who could bear to keep our eyes open to watch it.

[Mr. Brooks]

On the main ballot, a lower percentage of all players who played MLB baseball get in now than they did 30-40-50-60 years ago. There is 33% more players playing MLB baseball today than in 1968 and nearly 47% more than in 1960, yet it seems the exclusivity standards didn't really change.

 

They didn't change despite the fact that the players getting in when these exclusivity standards were created weren't even playing in an integrated game, meaning they were missing out on playing some of the best competition yet setting the bar for everyone who eventually would.

 

I agree with the bigger Hall approach.

But when you expand and add more players, you are adding to the bottom, not the top. So it shouldn't affect how many guys get in.

If you contracted 15 teams right now, not a single player hitting the road ever had a chance if being an HOF.

[Tom Froemming]

I just don't care for the process. For 15 years hundreds of writers voted and these two didn't make it in. Then it goes to a committee of 16 guys to review their cases and come to a conclusion? Why can't the veterans committees be bigger? 

 

And take a look at the committee. You think fellow St. Paul native Dave Winfield wasn't biased? How about Bobby Cox, John Schuerholz or Don Sutton, all of whom worked for the Braves in 1991. Paul Beeston was the Blue Jays President when they had Morris and Bob Elliot was the Jays writer for the Toronto Sun during the same period.

[gunnarthor]

 

But when you expand and add more players, you are adding to the bottom, not the top. So it shouldn't affect how many guys get in.
If you contracted 15 teams right now, not a single player hitting the road ever had a chance if being an HOF.

Integration didn't add to the bottom. Adding players from other countries isn't adding to the bottom. Babe Ruth dominated in an era where the talent pool was significantly limited but he and others of his time are overly represented in the HOF. 

 

[Doomtints]

This will retire the conversations about whether or not Morris is worthy.

 

This also is a nice sign for Johan, who will probably be voted in by the old timers if he doesn't make it in via the (often clueless and overthinking) writers.

[nicksaviking]

 

But when you expand and add more players, you are adding to the bottom, not the top. So it shouldn't affect how many guys get in.
If you contracted 15 teams right now, not a single player hitting the road ever had a chance if being an HOF.

 

Adding the Negro League players and later Latin and Asian players isn't adding to the bottom. The pool of talent has greatly expanded from what we probably still consider baseball's hayday.

[ashbury]

But when you expand and add more players, you are adding to the bottom, not the top. So it shouldn't affect how many guys get in.

If you contracted 15 teams right now, not a single player hitting the road ever had a chance if being an HOF.

It's a fair point, but not really relevant. In addition to the replies so far, I'll mention that the US population by itself is nearly three times the size as in Babe Ruth's day. Had there been no baseball expansion, the 16 teams would be packed thrice as deep in high-end talent, because the bell-curve still has the same shape but the greater number of candidates moves the cutoff line higher.

[dbminn]

Congratulations to Jack Morris! Too bad he'll never make it in the Hall of WAR - but then again, Sandy Koufax wouldn't be in HOF by that measure either.

[mikelink45]

I love this election.  Two deserving men.  The only thing negative is that Jack will no longer get all the free national publicity.  Now that he is in we will move on and we will write about the next close vote getter.  But does Jack deserve to get it?  Yes.  Most definitely.  He was described often by broadcasters and writers as a future Hall of Famer.  We might someday get the statistical hall of fame, but right now it is the baseball hall of fame and it should reflect the fan and the feelings that they have for the player.

 

Jack was a trusted pitcher in multiple lineups and rotations.  He was good for opening day and for critical matches.  Players and management had trust in him.  No one said, wait, check his ERA before we put him on the mount.  How many years would we have gladly inserted him into the Twins rotation?

 

Stat complilers  get in and always will, but certainly players just feel like they belong there.  

 

Trammel is interesting because he was always good.  He was steady, he was dependable, but never did Ozzie's backflip, scorched the bases like Aparicio, or slugged homeruns like Banks.  Being dependable and consistent has lots of value and today that got recognized. 

[Mr. Brooks]

It's a fair point, but not really relevant. In addition to the replies so far, I'll mention that the US population by itself is nearly three times the size as in Babe Ruth's day. Had there been no baseball expansion, the 16 teams would be packed thrice as deep in high-end talent, because the bell-curve still has the same shape but the greater number of candidates moves the cutoff line higher.

All great points. My mistake.

[ashbury]

Trammel is interesting because he was always good.  He was steady, he was dependable, but never did Ozzie's backflip, scorched the bases like Aparicio, or slugged homeruns like Banks.  Being dependable and consistent has lots of value and today that got recognized. 

He was no Steady Eddie Bressoud. Alan Trammell was, in addition to being dependable and consistent, *really* good.

 

Really, really good. A plus defender at a premium position, who could hit. He could hit well above the league average most seasons during his prime. His team might have been happy with his bat if he had played at first base, those years. But he didn't play first, he played SS, meaning you could go out and get a bat-only guy for first base if you liked. And you didn't have to substitute him out in the late innings for defense - no, if his bat had been bad, he might still have been the late-inning defensive substitute.

 

I might be seriously underselling him by saying he's really, really good. He was *really*, really, really good. Greatest SS ever? No. But a long-standing oversight has finally been corrected.

[jimmer]

Congratulations to Jack Morris! Too bad he'll never make it in the Hall of WAR - but then again, Sandy Koufax wouldn't be in HOF by that measure either.

I keep hearing/reading people slam WAR as to why Morris wasnt making it in before. There are sooooo many old school reasons you can point to to explain why he didnt make it. No need to even mention WAR.

 

Like, for examples, for his career his ERA was only 5% better than league average. ERA is pretty old school. Or his low K/9 ration and his high BB/9 ratio. Or never winning a CY. All old school reasoning.

 

And,lets face it, the first 5 or so years on the ballot, newer things like WAR were barely mentioned, much less being used as some kind of barometer for HOF worthiness or individual season awards worthiness. Pretty sure Fangraphs was the first site to have a WAR stat and Fangraphs itself wasnt even in existence until Morris had been on the ballot for like 3 years.