Berrios or Santana?

[John Kelsey]

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?

[bluechipper]

I'm a huge Berrios fan, but it's still Ervin Santana for me.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Santana all the way. While Berrios has been lock-step with Ervin in performance, he doesn't have much of a track record of consistency. I'll need to see a lot more of Jose before he supplants Santana at the top of the rotation.

[h2oface]

I have moved on to Berrios, on the inconsistency of Santana's last three starts, of which 2 (one I witnessed in LA on Pujols' historic night) were horrible, and very bad. Since May 7th, his starts were horrible, great, bad, great, very good, horrible, great, very bad. Granted, he had a remarkable first month of the season. But Santana does not have the movement on the ball that Berrios has. I think Berrios is our best pitcher, regardless of his short career, and inconsistency. But neither are aces, in my book. Berrios has a chance to be an MLB ace, and not just the teams best pitcher, with time. Santana's career totals (which include 2007/9/12), steroid use, & lack of "electric stuff", will never let him be in my mind. Plus, I was not impressed with him cowardly throwing at Zunino the other day the first pitch after Zunino's 3 run homer on a pitch he offered that was right down the middle. The response was way above the waist, and way too near the head, and I am not a fan a pitcher ever throwing at a batter, anyway. 

[stringer bell]

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

[goulik]

The gap is closing but if playoffs or World Series started tomorrow... Santana

[mikecgrimes]

 

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?

 

Santana can go 9 but at this point there's a 25% you would trade in his start for a Gibson start.  Santana is the game one guy just because he's a veteran and the game 2 starter is just as valuable, but in a one game playoff I might go Berrios.

[Shaitan]

Santana without question. Experience matters.

 

Santana will give you 6-8 innings. Berrios 5-7.

[twinsnorth49]

Erv, need to see more of how Berrios handles things when the shrapnel starts flying. Santana is a pretty cool customer and can work his way through a game in a variety of ways when things aren't going well.

[mikecgrimes]

 

 

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

 

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin.  I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago.  That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself

 

Santana without question. Experience matters.

 

Santana will give you 6-8 innings. Berrios 5-7.

 

Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

[Mike Sixel]

Berrios, and not close. Not even a little close for me.

[Shaitan]

 

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin.  I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago.  That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself

 

 

Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

The average IP so far isn't really relevant to me. First, Santana has more starts. Second, given their ages, Santana won't get a pitch limit in a postseason game. They'd run him until he's out of gas. They'll never do that to someone Berrios' age. Molitor has pulled Santana early a lot this year (there's a PPress article on it if you care) to "save him for later in the year." Those rules don't apply in postseason.

 

Regardless of IP, I'd still trust Santana more. As I said above, experience matters. Berrios is still pretty raw. Either way, it's a solid 1-2 right now.

[USAFChief]

I'm just glad Berrios has made the question reasonable.

[Loosey]

Even when the Twins had Santana and Radke, I think Radke was starting game 1, at least in the early years of Santana.  I assume the veteran calm in game one is a factor.

 

So for now, I say Santana.

[Richard Karn's Beard]

I think if the Twins find themselves in the playoffs you go with the pitcher who has consistently been the best pitcher all year.  That obviously could dramatically change between now and then.  If the game is at home I'd lean toward Berrios.  If it is on the road you might go with the experience of Santana.  

 

I believe the risk you run with a young pitcher is them getting knocked around early and then you have big trouble the rest of the series.  High risk, high reward type stuff...but often times the equation of youth + high risk = problems.  It's similar to the mathematical equation that holds true in my life: alcohol + strangers = problems

 

Any way you slice it, it's fun to be talking about these types of scenarios.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

Unfortunately, Berrios is one injury away from being the Twins' top pitcher.

 

No Jinx intended

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin. I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago. That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself

 

 

Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

talk about consistency. Santana has 3 complete games and averages 6.78. Berrios has not had a complete game, and averages 6.64. Berrios seems like he has thrown up fewer clunkers this year, but maybe that's selective memory.

[jimmer]

 

talk about consistency. Santana has 3 complete games and averages 6.78. Berrios has not had a complete game, and averages 6.64. Berrios seems like he has thrown up fewer clunkers this year, but maybe that's selective memory.

Berrios has had one game (out of seven) where he didn't do well and his FIP is a whole point less than Santana's.  Santana is still the top guy because he's been doing it longer, but Berrios has been impressive.

[Respy]

Trust? Santana.  Berrios has looked great, but the sample size is too small.  

[kab21]

I actually trust Berrios more but Santana would still start game 1 of a series. Or the play in game. I don't know...

[Pardon My Dinger]

I'm actually going to go Berrios on this one. I "trust the stuff."

[70charger]

Yes

[Doomtints]

 

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?

 

Berrios is the future ace of the team. As the Twins are not likely to go to the playoffs, whoever is the "ace" or "game 1 starter" right now is probably not important to consider. But if we must, it's Santana.

[Sssuperdave]

This Berrios run reminds me so much of Liriano in 2006, when he was 10-1 at the All-Star break. He was dominating even more than Johan Santana, but I don't think anyone considered him an Ace yet. I don't think it's possible to be an Ace after half of one season, though it is obviously possible to pitch like one, which Liriano did and Berrios is doing. Unfortunately the ace-level performance didn't stick with Liriano, but I'm sure hoping it will with Berrios!

 

There are a few key differences between the a Berrios/E Santana comparison and a Liriano/J Santana comparison though...

 

• I think Berrios' success is more repeatable since Liriano's success depended upon torking up the Slider to an unhealthy level, which caused TJ surgery.
• I'm awed by Berrios' "makeup" (work ethic, committment, attitude). This isn't to take anything away from Liriano, but Berrios seems to stand above the rest on this.
• E Santana certainly isn't the ace that J Santana was, so the bar for Berrios to clear isn't as high as Liriano's was to be the team's best pitcher. 

So, all that to say I'd still call Santana the Twins best pitcher or ace, but Berrios could change that with a couple more months like he's been having.

 

 

 

 

[Doomtints]

Liriano's dominance as a rookie is something we will never see by a pitcher ever again.

 

Berrios is playing well, but his first season is a vastly different story. This is his second season now.

 

Berrios is on a more typical MLB track. He is probably the real deal.

[Sssuperdave]

Actually, while Liriano was still a rookie in 06, he did throw 23.2 innings in 05 with a 5.70 ERA.  Berrios threw 58.1 innings last year.  Obviously more than Liriano, but I don't think the difference in experience is as significant as you make it sound.

 

Though I agree that Berrios is probably the real deal.

[mikecgrimes]

I don't think Santana will start game one over Berrios anymore

[twinfan]

Santana is #1, Berrios is #2 but I'm hoping Hughes gets back to his early Twins form. He can be better than both of them- despite the home runs. I know. I'm a dreamer.

[John Kelsey]

I'll take Berrios. 

[mikecgrimes]

 

Liriano's dominance as a rookie is something we will never see by a pitcher ever again.

 

 

Not often, but of course we will