DaveW: Dodgers trade for Dozier to be completed within the next 24 hours

[Cory Engelhardt]

The Twins can keep Dozier. The Dodgers can make essentially the same offer for Forsythe that they are making for Dozier.Earlier we had a thread on the ideal trade for Dozier. Should not the question be (for Twins fans): What is the least you would take for Dozier?

Are you certain the Rays would want the exact package for Forsythe that the Twins would want?

 

And I want Alvarez, but if he is off the table, I'd want (at the very least) De Leon, Lux, Buehler, and maybe another guy like Trayce Thompson, but I get if it is only 3 guys. That is the least I would want.

Course, if the dodgers wouldn't offer even that, I'd offer him to a few other teams to see if their best offer is at least that good.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Who wrote this? Just curious.

 

Eric Longenhagen at FanGraphs.

[Circus Boy]

This thread has so much momentum and been joined by so many that I do believe we've got ourselves a convoy.

[jimmer]

Another article about how Dozier to the Dodgers makes sense.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/211165654/brian-dozier-to-dodgers-is-obvious-winter-move/

 

'The Dodgers got roughly league-average performance out of their second basemen last year, but Chase Utley will be 38 on Dec. 17 and tailed off badly as the season went on, and Howie Kendrick (who played more outfield than second anyway) is now in Philadelphia. If the season started today, they'd be going with backups like Enrique Hernandez or Chris Taylor at second, and obviously that's not going to cut it.'

 

'So let's pick up this suddenly cold Hot Stove and get the inevitable "Jose De Leon, Brock Stewart and Trayce Thompson" -- or thereabouts, giving the Twins young pitching and hitting ready to contribute now -- "for Dozier" show on the road. Make it more interesting by including Yasiel Puig, if you must, or pitching prospect Walker Buehler. Minnesota won't likely find a competitor with a better need or offer than Los Angeles. The Dodgers won't do better than Dozier to fill their second-base spot. Time to make it happen.'

[DaveW]

I'm now hearing things are "heating up" again, Dodgers have same offer on the table, but apparently they are engaging on other ways for the Twins to get the "third" type of player they covet.

Stay tuned!!

[gunnarthor]

 

Check out how

 

 

Fernando Romero absolutely has the potential to be one. He isn't one yet, but he can be. Outside of him, I don't know if they meant someone else.

 

.

Depends in part on how you measure ace.  Sickels has a pretty good definition here.  An ace by that definition should have two plus pitches and a third average one. 

 

I think the Twins have three guys in the system who could be an ace if it breaks correctly for them - Romero, Jay and Thorpe.  Jay is probably the closest with most prospect places grading his fastball and slider as plus or future plus.  He has to work on control and durability but his stuff is pretty good.

[twins_89]

 

I'm now hearing things are "heating up" again, Dodgers have same offer on the table, but apparently they are engaging on other ways for the Twins to get the "third" type of player they covet.

Stay tuned!!

 

So, are the Dodgers trying to acquire a prospect from another organization? I guess I could see them trying to dump Kazmir or McCarthy while throwing in enough money to get a suitable prospect.

[snepp]

It may be time to get this back out there again, for any that missed it.

 

 

Moderator note - I am unlocking this thread on a trial basis for the sole and limited purpose of Dave keeping us updated and people talking about the potential impact of the trade.

 

There were a lot of good posts here, people. And some very funny posts. Overall, this was a very entertaining thread and there was some interesting analysis, But some feelings got hurt and some posts got too personal, so until I have worked that out with the parties I am unlocking this thread with two special ground rules:

 

1. No more joking, no matter how funny. Think of this as Windows startup mode until further notice..

 

2. No questioning of Dave's veracity, no matter how it is phrased. If you doubt Dave's veracity then please just go read another thread. This thread should not be about Dave.

 

I am disappointed that we came to a point where snepp had to close one of the most popular and entertaining threads in TD history. I believe that as a community we can and must do better than this.

 

We are all Twins fans and that is an important, eternal bond. If we wanted to be insensitive or to bicker then we could become Yankees fans. Let's remember that we are in this together and try to express our fundamental brotherhood by thinking about how the other person might feel. 

 

I did not have the privilege to grow up in the Twin Cities and for a decade I had to follow the Twins by radio. I did not meet a fellow Twins fan in person until I was 30 years old. You people make me feel sad when you fail to appreciate the value of your fellow Twins fans.

 

We moderators work hard to create a place where you can disagree and argue like you might with your best friend, NOT like you might argue in some anonymous forum. 

 

Please note that this lecture applies only to a handful of you, and they know who they are.

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

I'm now hearing things are "heating up" again, Dodgers have same offer on the table, but apparently they are engaging on other ways for the Twins to get the "third" type of player they covet.

 

Stay tuned!!

DaveW, what does this mean?

[Rhino and Compass]

I think that one of the things keeping this from happening is that the Dodgers recognize that the Twins have to make a move as much as they need a 2b. As valuable as Dozier is right now, he isn't the difference between Minnesota being a playoff team and not during the final two years of his contract, and I suspect the new front office is loathe to extend a middle infielder into their mid-30s while rebuilding. In order to extract value from him in order to get back to the playoffs, he needs to be moved, and every day that ticks by is an erosion of his functional value. Unfortunately for the Twins, there just aren't any other suitors for Dozier, but there are a handful of other 2bs out there, admittedly less productive, but also less expensive while still being better than what LA has right now. 

There is no motivation for the Dodgers to finish this right now, and they may simply be waiting for a new front office to blink, and for the value to come down a bit. If a trade ever does come to fruition, I'll be happy with it, nearly without regard for the return, because I know it was the best one on the table, and so long as there are young pitchers coming back, there is a chance they could be on the next Twins team in the postseason.

 

Also, hi, I'm new here, but have been lurking in this thread since what feels like the mid -90s

[jimmer]

 

I think that one of the things keeping this from happening is that the Dodgers recognize that the Twins have to make a move as much as they need a 2b. As valuable as Dozier is right now, he isn't the difference between Minnesota being a playoff team and not during the final two years of his contract, and I suspect the new front office is loathe to extend a middle infielder into their mid-30s while rebuilding. In order to extract value from him in order to get back to the playoffs, he needs to be moved, and every day that ticks by is an erosion of his functional value. Unfortunately for the Twins, there just aren't any other suitors for Dozier, but there are a handful of other 2bs out there, admittedly less productive, but also less expensive while still being better than what LA has right now. 

There is no motivation for the Dodgers to finish this right now, and they may simply be waiting for a new front office to blink, and for the value to come down a bit. If a trade ever does come to fruition, I'll be happy with it, nearly without regard for the return, because I know it was the best one on the table, and so long as there are young pitchers coming back, there is a chance they could be on the next Twins team in the postseason.

 

Also, hi, I'm new here, but have been lurking in this thread since what feels like the mid -90s

Yeah, I keep reading people talking about replacing Dozier's offense next year. Who cares?  I mean really?  Who cares?  We only have him for two more years and he's gone.  We aren't contenders in those two years and even with his offense, we're nowhere near contenders.  But we do need pitching badly and he's the best chip to get it.

[DaveW]

So, are the Dodgers trying to acquire a prospect from another organization? I guess I could see them trying to dump Kazmir or McCarthy while throwing in enough money to get a suitable prospect.

Not sure, I haven't heard of anything involving a third team so I doubt it.

 

I still get the sense that the twins don't want a salary dump either, dodgers would need to at least pick up a decent chunk i think.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Not sure, I haven't heard of anything involving a third team so I doubt it.

I still get the sense that the twins don't want a salary dump either, dodgers would need to at least pick up a decent chunk i think.

Why would the twins have to dump salary?

[jimmer]

 

Why would the twins have to dump salary?

He means, the Twins don't want someone else's salary dump.

[snepp]

Why would the twins have to dump salary?

A salary dump from the Dodgers onto the Twins.

 

 

edit: sniped by Jimmer!

[Cory Engelhardt]

Got it. But man, there are still some good players to be had

[goliath]

Andy Mccullough, LA TImes Dodger beat writer on Dodger Talk tonight, thinks Dodger/ Twins match up well, talks on going, but Dodgers reluctant to give up their prospects.  He thinks it will happen, but doesn't give timeline.  He likes Dozier more than Forsythe, and doesn't see Kinsler as a possibility.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

They were going for it last year too, and they signed Utley over better options (Zobrist, Murphy, trading for Neil Walker). And Utley was coming off a worse season then too.

 

And for all intents and purposes, Utley is still their incumbent second baseman, even if he's not technically signed right now -- I don't see him signing anywhere else until the Dodgers close that door, especially now that the Angels have acquired a 2B. Born and raised in LA, plus he can get more money, more playing time, and a better shot at the postseason in LA than anywhere else.

Mad Props for using "intents and purposes" correctly. Drives me bonkers to see "intensive purposes". What the heck is an "intensive purpose" anyway?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

This thread has so much momentum and been joined by so many that I do believe we've got ourselves a convoy.

Mercy sakes!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd5ZLJWQmss

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Mad Props for using "intents and purposes" correctly. Drives me bonkers to see "intensive purposes". What the heck is an "intensive purpose" anyway?

I always use "intensive purpose" in all that I do, so it is never wrong when I use it!

[gSutter]

 

Mad Props for using "intents and purposes" correctly. Drives me bonkers to see "intensive purposes". What the heck is an "intensive purpose" anyway?

I always use "intensive purpose" in all that I do, so it is never wrong when I use it!

The saying is "for all in tents and porpoises" it's supposed to be used in situations where you are addressing people who are camping and dolphins.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

The saying is "for all in tents and porpoises" it's supposed to be used in situations where you are addressing people who are camping and  WITH dolphins.

FIFY

[Jham]

 

The saying is "for all in tents and porpoises" it's supposed to be used in situations where you are addressing people who are camping and dolphins.

First post since this fall when work monitored my internet usage and blocked the forum section of the site. And I'm using it to let you know I plan on stealing your phrase and using it as often as possible from now on. 

[HitInAPinch]

 

Andy Mccullough, LA TImes Dodger beat writer on Dodger Talk tonight, thinks Dodger/ Twins match up well, talks on going, but Dodgers reluctant to give up their prospects.  He thinks it will happen, but doesn't give timeline.  He likes Dozier more than Forsythe, and doesn't see Kinsler as a possibility.

Considering their non-issue with an enormous payroll, I find the "reluctant to give up their prospects" kinda weird.

[HitInAPinch]

Wow, commentary petered @ 10:31pm last night?  Time to give it up??      

[AlwaysinModeration]

When they agree on this deal, if it includes both De Leon and Alvarez, that would be more than almost every pundit (and thread-visiting Dodgers fan) has speculated or expected.

 

I certainly hope that there is a third and possibly a fourth player in the deal. Prospects stature can change a lot in a year or two. Imagine, for example, if two years ago the Twins had offered up Alex Meyer, Aaron Hicks, Oswaldo Arcia and Fernando Romero in a trade. That package would have netted just about any player on the trading block, and Romero would have been the throw-in in the deal.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

 

The saying is "for all in tents and porpoises" it's supposed to be used in situations where you are addressing people who are camping and dolphins.

Is "camping with the dolphins" kinda like "sleeping with the fishes"?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Considering their non-issue with an enormous payroll, I find the "reluctant to give up their prospects" kinda weird.

Why? They can't really count on buying more prospects, especially with the new international rules. And it's not realistic to spend $20+ mil on every position annually -- developing some pre-FA/arb stars is still the key to building a juggernaut.

[laloesch]

 

Except that it's been rumored De Leon and Alvarez are already offered and the hold up is whomever is the #3 and maybe the #4.  I'm saying if we miss our on getting De Leon and Alvarez because of haggling over #3 and #4 pieces, it's a failure.

 

And, to speak to your first point, while I understand the Twins want Bellinger or Alvarez, I'm not sure wise is the word I'd use if a deal fails because they couldn't get one of them.  Not getting Alvarez or Bellinger shouldn't be a deal buster.

 

For me, if they CAN get De Leon and Bellinger/Alvarez, then they'd be smart to take it regardless of who else is in there (or if there even IS anyone else).

 

I will be really ticked off if the Twin's FO ego gets in the way of a trade for De Leon and Alvarez plus a lesser prospect (if indeed that offer is truly on the table). We DESPERATELY need the pitching prospects.  Get it done already!  

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think that one of the things keeping this from happening is that the Dodgers recognize that the Twins have to make a move as much as they need a 2b. As valuable as Dozier is right now, he isn't the difference between Minnesota being a playoff team and not during the final two years of his contract, and I suspect the new front office is loathe to extend a middle infielder into their mid-30s while rebuilding. In order to extract value from him in order to get back to the playoffs, he needs to be moved, and every day that ticks by is an erosion of his functional value. Unfortunately for the Twins, there just aren't any other suitors for Dozier, but there are a handful of other 2bs out there, admittedly less productive, but also less expensive while still being better than what LA has right now. 

There is no motivation for the Dodgers to finish this right now, and they may simply be waiting for a new front office to blink, and for the value to come down a bit. If a trade ever does come to fruition, I'll be happy with it, nearly without regard for the return, because I know it was the best one on the table, and so long as there are young pitchers coming back, there is a chance they could be on the next Twins team in the postseason.

 

Also, hi, I'm new here, but have been lurking in this thread since what feels like the mid -90s

 

Welcome to the site!