Article: Official Winter Meetings Tuesday Thread

[DaveW]

 

Well he's not going to get signed by a contender due to his qualifying offer, so if he wants more money or opportunity he'll have to go to a bottom-10 finishing team. He wouldn't have to move his family since he'd know full well that it would be a half-season stint if he performs, and a 1-season stint if he doesn't.

Plenty of teams would give up that first rounder for him.

[mazeville]

 

Moncada is a significantly better prospect then Sano or Buxton.

 

He's not a "significantly" better prospect than Buxton, whose ceiling remains sky high. But that's exactly who it would have taken to get Sale.

[Comrade Bork]

What about the offense production? No way Polanco is going to hit for the power numbers Dozier has put up as a Twin.

 

Granted Polanco only had 270 AB's but he hit.280 with a decent walk rate. I'd take that at 2B.

 

Remember when the twins gave up 100 more runs than the 14th place team in the AL? We are not going to be able to seriously upgrade our pitching this off-season but we can improve our team defense. Who cares if you hit home runs if the pitching staff has put you in a hole too deep to climb out of.

[DaveW]

 

He's not a "significantly" better prospect than Buxton, whose ceiling remains sky high. But that's exactly who it would have taken to get Sale.

Yes he is.

Edited December 6, 2016 by DaveW

[mazeville]

The Red Sox's trade for Chris Sale is EXACTLY why teams should never, ever, ever stop pushing to get prospects. 

 

They bid aggressively for Moncada and drafted well in Benintendi. They have so many prospects they could easily afford to package two of the best ones, plus two more, in a deal to get one of the best pitchers in the league. And they're still stacked. 

 

People on this site would debate left and right about the possibility of trading Buxton for Sale because, let's face it, Buxton is the big hope this team has to reach competitiveness (along with pitching, of course). The Sox have a BUNCH of guys on Buxton's level, so many that it was no problem trading some of them. 

[mazeville]

 

Yes he is.

 

No. He isn't. Just because Buxton struggled early on does not make him any less talented or diminish his potential. He is still very young. You would certainly consider Moncada a better prospect at this point because of Buxton's struggles, but Buxton's ceiling remains every bit as high at this point.

 

Buxton is faster. He plays center field (which is a more important position than second or third base) and has plenty of power potential. 

[DaveW]

 

The Red Sox's trade for Chris Sale is EXACTLY why teams should never, ever, ever stop pushing to get prospects. 

 

They bid aggressively for Moncada and drafted well in Benintendi. They have so many prospects they could easily afford to package two of the best ones, plus two more, in a deal to get one of the best pitchers in the league. And they're still stacked. 

 

People on this site would debate left and right about the possibility of trading Buxton for Sale because, let's face it, Buxton is the big hope this team has to reach competitiveness (along with pitching, of course). The Sox have a BUNCH of guys on Buxton's level, so many that it was no problem trading some of them. 

100x this

It truly illustrates just how poorly this team was ran over the last decade.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Apples and oranges.  They will move Castro to the OF, so you need to compare his value with that of (let's say) Aaron Hicks.  Both can co-exist in the same Yankee's lineup

Thrylos, I'm not sure what your point is. Read the comment I was responding to.

 

again, that wasn't the question being responded to.......

What Mike Sixel said.

[DaveW]

 

No. He isn't. Just because Buxton struggled early on does not make him any less talented or diminish his potential. He is still very young. You would certainly consider Moncada a better prospect at this point because of Buxton's struggles, but Buxton's ceiling remains every bit as high at this point.

 

Buxton is faster. He plays center field (which is a more important position than second or third base) and has plenty of power potential. 

Buxton may be faster, but Moncada is clearly the better base stealer at this point.

 

Buxton does have him beat in the field (and arm) no doubt, but give me Moncada's other three tools over him in a heart beat.

[Vanimal46]

 

Plenty of teams would give up that first rounder for him.

It's still very early in the FA period, so that may ring true... But as of late, it's been pretty quiet on Joey Bats rumors. If he doesn't have any real offers on the table, I would hope the Twins jump in to offer a contract. 

[mazeville]

 

100x this

It truly illustrates just how poorly this team was ran over the last decade.

 

Indeed. Drives me nuts. Poor drafting, development and not nearly enough aggressiveness on the international free agent market. 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, I'd trade Buxton for Moncada......since risk does factor into value. There has always been real risk Buxton wouldn't hit like an elite player. And, somehow, he has a low base stealing percentage.

 

Moncada has a super high floor compared to Buxton. 

 

But really, it was about Buxton and Stewart and 2 random prospects....for Sale. If the Twins were as loaded as the Red Sox, this would be a no brainer. It's what you get when are aggressively spend money on international free agents, and draft better than other teams.....

[mazeville]

 

Well, I'd trade Buxton for Moncada......since risk does factor into value. There has always been real risk Buxton wouldn't hit like an elite player. And, somehow, he has a low base stealing percentage.

 

Moncada has a super high floor compared to Buxton. 

 

But really, it was about Buxton and Stewart and 2 random prospects....for Sale. If the Twins were as loaded as the Red Sox, this would be a no brainer. It's what you get when are aggressively spend money on international free agents, and draft better than other teams.....

 

Exactly. Buxton is far more valuable to the Twins than Moncada is to the Red Sox because the Sox have many more top-tier prospects than the Twins.

 

Again, if we had three Buxtons, nobody would bat an eye at the Twins trading one of them for Chris Sale. That's basically what the Red Sox had. 

 

I just feel frustrated that the previous front office completely wasted all of those years of losing. 

[Loosey]

 

Also, if they would sign him then both Park & Vargas would be in Rochester unless they are dealt.

And  Bautista would be in Minnesota.  I think that is a fair trade-off.  

[BuxtonBandwagon]

Thinking about what the Red Sox have done is really impressive. Jackie Bradley Jr(who struggled early but found success), Bogaerts, Betts, Bennintendi(who was taken after Tyler Jay), Moancada, Swihart, and they still have Devers(a top 20 prospect in the minors). That is a heck of a line up that they have developed.

 

Let's hope the twins can develop the our young players and prospects the same. A lot of them have shown potential but need to sustain it. We have lots of elite talent (Buxton, Sano) and lots of very good talent (Kepler, Polanco, Gordon, Rosario). So obviously one day if we can get the most out of these guys like the Red Sox have their prospects and develop our young pitching we can be looking at a bright future.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Lol - I meant next year they'll lose 106.

I thought it was the exchange rate. 103 US losses = 106 Canadian

[markos]

 

But really, it was about Buxton and Stewart and 2 random prospects....for Sale. If the Twins were as loaded as the Red Sox, this would be a no brainer. It's what you get when are aggressively spend money on international free agents, and draft better than other teams.....

Maybe in December 2013. A similar Twins package would have been:

Moncada -> Buxton

Kopech -> Berrios

Basabe -> Polanco

Diaz -> <shrug>

 

Interesting that the White Sox chose this deal over the reported Robles/Giolito package from the Nationals.

[amjgt]

If the Twins signed Bautisa, he might finally get over the hump and catch Mauer in career Target Field homeruns (Joey Bats 14 vs Joey Slaps 22)

 

 

 

 

 

Trademark on Joey Slaps, by the way

[amjgt]

That's a total "Thome is my Homie" shirt in the making.

 

Team Joey:

Silhouette of Bautista flipping a bat ("Bats" underneath)

next to

Silhouette of Mauer slapping a single to left ("Slaps" underneath) 

 

 

 

 

Parker would sell roughly 1,000,000 of those.

[Riverbrian]

Rumors being floated that 4 or 5 teams are in on Brian Dozier.

 

Rumors being floated that the Dodgers are looking at Solarte for 2nd Base. 

 

Both Rumors probably floated by the Twins and the Dodgers to get each other's attention... So... I assume the Dodgers are still the front runner.

 

It's my logic and it holds no value. 

 

 

[Loosey]

 

That's a total "Thome is my Homie" shirt in the making.

 

Team Joey:

Silhouette of Bautista flipping a bat ("Bats" underneath)

next to

Silhouette of Mauer slapping a single to left ("Slaps" underneath) 

 

 

 

 

Parker would sell roughly 1,000,000 of those.

Can I buy one right now?  How do I pre-order.

 

[bluechipper]

 

Moncada is a significantly better prospect then Sano or Buxton.

Maybe now he is, but at their peak value, Buxton would be considered a better prospect.

 

A stat that might be of interest is their minor league strikeout numbers: Moncada: 24%, Buxton: 21%. 

[Vanimal46]

 

That's a total "Thome is my Homie" shirt in the making.

 

Team Joey:

Silhouette of Bautista flipping a bat ("Bats" underneath)

next to

Silhouette of Mauer slapping a single to left ("Slaps" underneath) 

 

 

 

 

Parker would sell roughly 1,000,000 of those.

I would wear this shirt on a daily basis.... 

Someone start a kick starter right now! 

[bluechipper]

 

The Yankees are sort of in a rebuild.  Well, as much of a rebuild as the Yankees the do.  Does 2 years of Dozier get them to where they want to be which is always World Series Champions?  I'd so they are not contenders in 2017 and depending on what offseason moves they make in the next year are probably not in 2018.  So they would be trading their future World Series contending pieces away for a player that will be available in 2019 when they could get him with big $ if they want him then.

 

Teams going for it now are teams I see wanting Dozier.

Well the Yankees are talking about a $90M deal with Chapman, so I'd say they're going for it, while breaking in their young guys at the same time.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Maybe now he is, but at their peak value, Buxton would be considered a better prospect.

 

A stat that might be of interest is their minor league strikeout numbers: Moncada: 24%, Buxton: 21%. 

 

To add to that, Moncado's strikeout rate ballooned to 31% at AA. And in a display of irresponsibly short sample sizes - Moncada had a 12/1 K/BB rate in his 20 MLB plate appearances last year.

[lukeduke1980]

 

If the Twins signed Bautisa, he might finally get over the hump and catch Mauer in career Target Field homeruns (Joey Bats 14 vs Joey Slaps 22)

 

 

 

 

 

Trademark on Joey Slaps, by the way

Do we have an update on the 35 lb squats yet?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Maybe now he is, but at their peak value, Buxton would be considered a better prospect.

 

A stat that might be of interest is their minor league strikeout numbers: Moncada: 24%, Buxton: 21%. 

 

Based on them both being the top prospect in all of the minors? 

[d-mac]

 

People in two different, non-Twins front offices have told me today that they're convinced Brian Dozier will be traded. Lotta Dodgers steam. @https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/806229313938980866

 

I obviously haven't figured out how to embed tweets yet. So if anyone cares to school me, that'd be cool. 

[bluechipper]

 

Based on them both being the top prospect in all of the minors? 

I'm not sure what this means, but I think Buxton 2 years ago was a better prospect than what Moncada is now.

[Vanimal46]

 

 

When there's this much smoke, there's gotta be a fire soon for Dozier. I think he's gone by the end of the week.