Everyday Shortstop

[Run Prevention]

Hi this is much first post on here but have been reading for a long time. We have talked a lot about Dozier and pitching lately, rightfully so. My question is what should we do at SS?

 

1. Start Eduardo Escobar I was a big believer in Escobar since the Liriano trade. He's show he can play with solid XB power. Do you trust him to bounce back?

2. Let Polanco continue to develop and pray he can become a leave average defender? The bat is already good enough.

3. Scrap the offense and get a defensive wiz up here like Engelb Vielma? The offense was pretty good And forward steps by Sano, Buxton,Kepler, and others could make this Viable.

4. Go outside the organization and if so who do you sign or give up to acquire them?

 

I am assuming Nick Gordon will not be ready until atleast June 2018. I would go with Escobar to start the season and if things go bad bring up Vielma. What would you do?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think Escobar gets one more shot personally. Lots of promise in 2015, and when he was healthy we saw the same promise in 2016, but not so much when he was playing hurt. I'd be fine with Escobar/Polanco in 2017, and with Gordon coming up the pipe, I'd probably consider keeping Escobar under contract as he's not a FA until (I think) the 2019 offseason.

[Run Prevention]

I think Escobar can be good offensively and adequate defensively. I do not trust Polanco's defense at SS. Escobar is under control for Awhile still but could get expensive via arbitration.

[zchrz]

Scary part is there are starting to be questions about Gordon sticking at short.  I would prefer a defensive wiz as the stop gap until the position can be better filled, opposed to bat first guys like Polanco and Escobar. 

[Thrylos]

The Twins starting SS for 2017 (and beyond) will (and should be) Jorge Polanco.

 

Let the kid play a full year at SS instead of being jerked around from position to position, and then we can talk about his defense...

(Same regarding Sano's defense @ 3B btw...)

[KirbyHawk75]

 

The Twins starting SS for 2017 (and beyond) will (and should be) Jorge Polanco.

 

Let the kid play a full year at SS instead of being jerked around from position to position, and then we can talk about his defense...

(Same regarding Sano's defense @ 3B btw...)

If I had to guess, I am betting Polanco is our starting second baseman this year.  

[Physics Guy]

 

Scary part is there are starting to be questions about Gordon sticking at short.  I would prefer a defensive wiz as the stop gap until the position can be better filled, opposed to bat first guys like Polanco and Escobar. 

Who has questions? 

 

John Sickels - Projects as a regular shortstop with an above-average glove who will hit for average, show some pop to the gaps, and steal 15-20 bases a year.

 

Pretty sure I read that Keith Law thought he would be at least average at SS.  If you've seen something to the contrary, please share.

[Physics Guy]

Trade Dozier for SP help, put Polanco at 2B.  Escobar at SS with Vielma an option if Esco doesn't get his OPS back close to .700.  I wouldn't be opposed to going defense first with Vielma if he can at least OPS above .600 and he is as good defensively as some claim.  Gordon at SS sometime late 2018 or 2019.

[Linus]

Definitely would rather have Esco at short than Polanco. Let's start playing guys where they can succeed with the glove.

[TheLeviathan]

Vielma's glove may be ready, but his bat isn't.  

 

Assuming Dozier is traded I think it's Escobar or someone we acquire.

[Physics Guy]

 

Vielma's glove may be ready, but his bat isn't.  

 

Assuming Dozier is traded I think it's Escobar or someone we acquire.

That's what I was assuming as well, but if Esco barely crawls above .600 OPS does it matter?

[zchrz]

 

Who has questions? 

 

John Sickels - Projects as a regular shortstop with an above-average glove who will hit for average, show some pop to the gaps, and steal 15-20 bases a year.

 

Pretty sure I read that Keith Law thought he would be at least average at SS.  If you've seen something to the contrary, please share.

 

I don't have quotes for it but have seen his defense questioned some in multiple places, could just be the errors.  Hopefully he sticks at short they really need him too.

[Platoon]

3.

[DJSim22]

 

Scary part is there are starting to be questions about Gordon sticking at short.  I would prefer a defensive wiz as the stop gap until the position can be better filled, opposed to bat first guys like Polanco and Escobar. 

 

I agree with this, the pitchers need all the help they can get, and we just are not good enough defensively at SS right now.  I like Polanco better at 2nd base.  If Vielma or someone similar is in the mix, would they consider a late innings SS replacement putting him in and limiting at bats?  You rarely see it at SS, but I hope they at least think about it. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

That's what I was assuming as well, but if Esco barely crawls above .600 OPS does it matter?

 

I guess it depends if you think Vielma can be more than a terrible hitter.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Good talking point, Run Prevention.

 

If Escobar can return to his 2015 form he is an average SS, maybe slightly above. Not elite.

I would expect he may be a better 2B, if indeed Polanco is playing SS.

 

Vielma has historically had a pretty good OBP and in AA last year a .271 batting average. No pop to speak of and not terribly impressive, but maybe by 2018 or so he could be a passable enough hitter to trot him out there.

 

Right now MLB pitchers would eat him for lunch. (IMHO)

 

[DocBauer]

Vielma has potential, no doubt. Even with injuries hampering him last season he didon't suck at the plate. He shownever enough to think he could hit a little, get OB a little, provide some speed, etc. But he is by no means the answer for next season. You want someone who hits a buck eight to maybe two hundred at the ML level, then fine. But give the kid a chance to be healthy again and grow.

 

In both '14 and '15 Escobar proved he could do the job. Maybe not elite, but both offensively and defensively he showed he could do the job. Before 2016 began, I felt he could be THE GUY as long as he got breaks to prolong his ability/production. You can't just give a "baçkup" the job over a whole season and just cross your fingers.

 

I don't blame a so-so season last year on him with injury and intermittent playing time. But with/if Dozier gone, you HAVE to make a decision of sorts. You either comit to Escobar at SS ànd bring in another quality utility guy, OR, you bring in another legit starter/challenger for the spot, even on a 1 year while preparing for Gordon/Vielma.

[Vanimal46]

Not the biggest Escobar fan, but he can be a serviceable SS for next season. Ideally I think he's better suited for a utility IF role. If Dozier is traded, I'd like to look outside the organization for SS depth. 

Zack Cozart is a name being thrown around on other forums. Erick Aybar maybe. Or look to trade for someone else. 

[Doomtints]

I don't understand the love for Vielma.  He has not hit well at any level and his fielding looks sub-par.  He is speedy, sure, but I don't see any way he blossoms into a player who can survive in the majors for more than about a year and a half.  

 

Nick Gordon is 2 years younger and only 1 level below Vielma in the minors.  Likely they will both be ready for the majors at the same time.  Vielma is fine for minor league filler, but the best course of action is to just keep Escobar until Gordon is ready.  I am far from excited by Escobar but there is no way Vielma is better than he is, especially for 2017.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't understand the love for Vielma. He has not hit well at any level and his fielding looks sub-par. He is speedy, sure, but I don't see any way he blossoms into a player who can survive in the majors for more than about a year and a half.

 

Nick Gordon is 2 years younger and only 1 level below Vielma in the minors. Likely they will both be ready for the majors at the same time. Vielma is fine for minor league filler, but the best course of action is to just keep Escobar until Gordon is ready. I am far from excited by Escobar but there is no way Vielma is better than he is, especially for 2017.

Vielma's fielding is not sub par. It's widely considered the best in the organization and among the best in all of the minor leagues.

 

That said, I don't think he'll be able to hit enough. Some think he can, we'll see.

[Doomtints]

 

Vielma's fielding is not sub par. It's widely considered the best in the organization and among the best in all of the minor leagues.

That said, I don't think he'll be able to hit enough. Some think he can, we'll see.

This would have to be from scouting reports (or more ikely, second-hand from someone else who has read a scouting report and wrote a blog post about it).  Any good fielding by him certainly does not show up on paper.  Gordon looks just as good if not better at fielding.

I have learned to completely ignore second hand scouting report information (blogs) and go by the stat sheet.  After the Aaron Hicks debacle I would have hoped every Twins fan learned that lesson too.  Forget about the ditto head opinions, we gotta start looking at the numbers or directly reading the scouting reports ourselves.  

[Mr. Brooks]

This would have to be from scouting reports (or more ikely, second-hand from someone else who has read a scouting report and wrote a blog post about it). Any good fielding by him certainly does not show up on paper. Gordon looks just as good if not better at fielding.

 

I have learned to completely ignore second hand scouting report information (blogs) and go by the stat sheet. After the Aaron Hicks debacle I would have hoped every Twins fan learned that lesson too. Forget about the ditto head opinions, we gotta start looking at the numbers or directly reading the scouting reports ourselves.

 

Which numbers are you talking about?

Can you put some numbers into context that show him to be sub par defensively?

Can you cite a single source that says his fielding is subpar?

[Rosterman]

Right now, Polanco at short and assume Dozier won't be here in 2018, when Gordon comes up and Polanco can move to second. No reason to start Escobar, yet. I think Polanco will work his butt off and not have a soph slump.

 

[mazeville]

Depends on what they do with Dozier. If the trade offers just aren't there you keep him and use Polanco at shortstop until Nick Gordon is ready and hope Polanco can make the necessary adjustments to improve his fielding. Then, when Gordon comes up and assuming Dozier goes somewhere else in free agency, or gets traded next summer, you move Polanco to second and put Gordon at short. In that case, Vielma is your backup.

 

If they trade Dozier, which seems more likely than not at this point, you insert Escobar at shortstop until Vielma is ready or hope he is solid enough to keep it until Gordon is ready.

 

You do indeed open up a bit of a hole at short if you trade Dozier, which is the biggest reason for keeping him around and is why the Twins should only accept a real good package in return. But, that said, I remain convinced the team CAN get that sort of return.

[dougd]

The one minor league game I have seen was in Knoxville, Felix Jorge's first game for the Lookouts. He had a no-hitter or close thru 4, but in the 5th the Cub's farm team had several straight line drive base hits. Vielma was playing 2nd that night. With the bases loaded and two outs, a hard shot up the middle hit second base and bounced high in the air. Vielma jumped, caught the ball barehand, and threw to Garver at first while in the air to get the out. I am a believer, and hope to see him in the majors soon. 

[Twodogs]

 

Right now, Polanco at short and assume Dozier won't be here in 2018, when Gordon comes up and Polanco can move to second. No reason to start Escobar, yet. I think Polanco will work his butt off and not have a soph slump.

 

 

Gardy, is that you???

 

[Twodogs]

A couple of years ago everyone was all excited about Danny Santana?  Who is to say that Polanco will continue to do the things we saw for about a month last year??  I think it is always very risky to trade something that you know for sure for something that you don't know for sure.  Dozier has been pretty consistent over the last 3 years or so.  I think the Twins would be getting ahead of themselves if they feel like they can just plug someone in for him.  Now a top flight starter, I'd do that, but not many teams are going to do that for the Twins.  Top flight starters are just too valuable.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This would have to be from scouting reports (or more ikely, second-hand from someone else who has read a scouting report and wrote a blog post about it).  Any good fielding by him certainly does not show up on paper.  Gordon looks just as good if not better at fielding.

I have learned to completely ignore second hand scouting report information (blogs) and go by the stat sheet.  After the Aaron Hicks debacle I would have hoped every Twins fan learned that lesson too.  Forget about the ditto head opinions, we gotta start looking at the numbers or directly reading the scouting reports ourselves.  

The scouting reports weren't really wrong about Hicks, though. He scuffled badly when he came into the league but he scuffled at everything so it's not as if defense was some isolated issue with the guy.

 

The past two years, he has been an above average defender in most (if not all) metrics.

[alarp33]

 

This would have to be from scouting reports (or more ikely, second-hand from someone else who has read a scouting report and wrote a blog post about it).  Any good fielding by him certainly does not show up on paper.  Gordon looks just as good if not better at fielding.

I have learned to completely ignore second hand scouting report information (blogs) and go by the stat sheet.  After the Aaron Hicks debacle I would have hoped every Twins fan learned that lesson too.  Forget about the ditto head opinions, we gotta start looking at the numbers or directly reading the scouting reports ourselves.  

 

You have learned to ignore defensive scouting reports because Aaron Hicks couldn't hit? That seems logical. 

[Doomtints]

 

Which numbers are you talking about?
Can you put some numbers into context that show him to be sub par defensively?
Can you cite a single source that says his fielding is subpar?

 

Didn't I say I already did those things?  Why would I do them again for you?  You have two hands, no?