Honest qustion: How have the Twins not fired Ryan and/or Molitor at this point?

[peterb18]

Really easy if you hire Antony.

*ducks and runs*

Your not serious about this? Anthony is not a baseball guy; he was hired by Terry Ryan out of the U of Minn.

and trained by Terry. We need a Tony LaRussa type as a president of baseball operations. I probably missed your point, or humor.

[gil4]

 

Click on your user name in the upper right; choose 'Manage Ignore Prefs.' Put in the username and choose Hide Posts and as much else as you think necessary.

 

I guess that's better than my suggestion, which would have been "scroll faster."  I'm not sure if I'm on his list, but that probably would have done it.

[old nurse]

 

The Twins will find someone like Jerry and Stellie again to blame this disaster on.

 

Case in point:  The Twins are 15th in the AL in: ERA, H, R, ER, HR, WHIP, etc etc etc, and Ryan is waiting with open arms for their criminal (*) pitching coach to return from his 2 month paid vacation, while his job in the majors meanwhile is given to their 64 year old minor league pitching coordinator of a system that has not delivered a front line pitcher in about a decade.

 

If they cannot fire the pitching coach of the team with the worst pitching in the league, after he committed a crime, do you expect them to fire the manager and the whole front office?  

Baby steps first.  Neil Allen has to go for his performance on and off the field.

 

(*) yes, last time I checked DUI was a crime.

Whether or not someone should retain a job over a victimless crime is one debate.  I doubt this debate would spring up over a player.  Are results any different for the starters under the interim coach?  SSS to be the retort on many other instances.

[old nurse]

 

Some is entertaining, but some is just stupid.

I guess I have grown immune or tolerant of it so I didn't consider that reason. Sometimes the entertainment value is guessing how stupid the comment

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Terry will have to retire he will never be fired imo.

yup and he might be convinced to retire in the offseason, but certainly not mid season

[Richie the Rally Goat]

In fairness....the question was about Ryan and Molitor, not the whole org.

i do understand the assumption of cleaning house. A team this bad is failing at almost every function

[Thrylos]

There is actually one person in the Twins' organization who Ryan might be grooming to be his successor and will be scarier than Antony (if that was not scary enough.)  This guy:

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JHlK6yu5Yf0/UGX77U9kRtI/AAAAAAAAgDQ/i-QoyVGsSLg/s320/ron+gardenhire+(12).jpg

[Richie the Rally Goat]

There is actually one person in the Twins' organization who Ryan might be grooming to be his successor and will be scarier than Antony (if that was not scary enough.) This guy:

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JHlK6yu5Yf0/UGX77U9kRtI/AAAAAAAAgDQ/i-QoyVGsSLg/s320/ron+gardenhire+(12).jpg

NO!

[Halsey Hall]

 

I guess that's better than my suggestion, which would have been "scroll faster."  I'm not sure if I'm on his list, but that probably would have done it.

Naaa, you're good to go.

[Platoon]

Really easy if you hire Antony.

*ducks and runs*

What is sad is that is exactly what's going to happen, if anything. I thought it was time for Gardy to go, but I also felt Molitor was the same old same old. Where he has disappointed me most is the apparent lack of discipline, I thought he would be more authoritative. There is only one thing that will move the Pohlads, and that's decreased revenue. This is not a baseball team for them, it's an entertainment venture. How the revenue comes in is a moot point to their bookkeepers.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I don't think pointing out that there are a few who defend him at every turn without exception is creating an us versus them model. It's pointing out the reality.  They may be quieter now than during the offseason, but they are there and it's obvious.  So when someone says that no one is supporting TR anymore, it's not wrong to say that's false. And they are entitled to be TR supporters.  There are also those who just want to slam Ryan at every turn as well.  The two extremes exist. Both exist and that's the truth of it.

 

Additionally, I didn't say on this site. There are Twins fans away from this site as well, both online and in real life.  Saying there are plenty of devoted TR supporters is absolutely true, cause there are. Just like saying there are plenty of devoted Mauer supporters is true as well. And everyone should be entitled to be a devoted supporter of their favorites.

 

If everyone is entitled to being a devoted supporter of their favorite, then why does it behoove you to feel the need to call them out?  You certainly won't be changing their opinion with statements like the one I responded to.

 

I'm going to be honest in that I would be shocked if there were even five regular posters on this site (who weren't front office members) that wanted TR to remain the GM of this team.  Truly shocked.  My point before is that you are the one creating the us vs. them model with the consistent need to call them out.  It gets a lot of very rational, intelligent individuals (who don't necessarily agree with you I'd add) feeling the need to defend what looks like a very irrational statement, especially if there's anything they've disagreed with you on.  It does nothing but inflame.  Nothing. 

 

How about this... instead of worrying about that small handful of individuals who will defend the FO at every turn, let's instead look at the content that's being presented and agree or disagree in a rational fashion that doesn't address "some posters" or "other posters"...  Just respond to the argument presented. I think you'll be surprised at the thoughts that get teased out when that card isn't played.  I think you'll also be surprised at how much less contentious threads can be when cards like that aren't played. 

[Platoon]

Some is entertaining, but some is just stupid.

Somedays it's a fine line! But if you hit the ignore button, how will you know? .

[Dr. Evil]

DaveW I agree on most points and parallel your frustration with my own. It's hard to feel like the Pohlads give a rip when they don't hold people accountable. There are a lot of Twins fans that are starving for a sign that something to get excited about is ownership's primary goal. In my eyes, for what it's worth, I wish they were as interested in winning as I am. Just looking for a sign.

[Rosterman]

You start interviewing candidates now with the agreed assumption that Ryan will step down at season's end, and being the good company man, he and his staff will work with the new guy (and his staff) in the transition. If you can officially hire a new general manager sooner rather than later, he can work ahead towards 2017 while 2016 continues to play to its end.

 

Regarding a managerial or coaching change, you do it. You either make Gene Glynn interim manager and leave the new hiring procedure to the next general manager, or elevate someone else from the minors with the official assumption that they may/may not have the job come next season...partly on the way they play it out with the current roster.

 

Like the Phillies handling of Andy MacPhail, you go ahead and make a change early under the assumption that it will be for the team going forth to next year. 2016 is still the responsibilities of the powers-that=be. And it should more than just a GM. You should hire a Pres/VP of Baseball Operations and a new GM and new assistant GMs. You can still keep someone around from the old days, if you wish...BUT DON'T JUST MOVE SOMEONE UP FROM WITHIN AT THIS POINT!!

 

With the 2016 season going as ism someone has to take a hit/fall during the season and someone has to leave come the end of the season. The sooner you can get an organizational jump, the better.

 

Of course, we may hear "WE CAN FIX THIS" from One Twins Way!

[jimmer]

If everyone is entitled to being a devoted supporter of their favorite, then why does it behoove you to feel the need to call them out?

because I was responding to someone who said TR had no more supporters? Do you think thats true? no? Neither do i and i said so in a succinct and non-insulting way. You wont convince me there is a problem with doing that. You have turned it into something more, not me.

[The Wise One]

Your not serious about this? Anthony is not a baseball guy; he was hired by Terry Ryan out of the U of Minn.

and trained by Terry. We need a Tony LaRussa type as a president of baseball operations. I probably missed your point, or humor.

There are a few thousand posts on this site from people who are not baseball people. They say how to run the Twins. I doubt if actual baseball knowledge from being at the professional level is necessary as all of these people have opinions that they are absolutely certain of their absolute correctness and brilliance.

[Han Joelo]

I don't want anyone fired. I'd rather see the team I root for--the whole damn lot of them--pull their collective heads out and start winning. Firing people is like popping pills when you get a boo boo. Tonight was a good start--Gibson was good, Dozier did things we expected, it turns out Hughes was also seriously hurt, and Berrios almost threw a no hitter.

 

Rub some dirt on it and quit whining.

[Champuckett]

 

Terry will have to retire he will never be fired imo.

 

[Pius Jefferson]

I'm starting to think the best we can hope for is a Gm-in-waiting being brought in and that person takes over for Terr Ryan starting in 2018. 

[DaveW]

If we fired Ryan and Mollie a month ago, there is a chance that Arcia would be getting a shot as the everyday DH, Sano would be rehabbing at 3B, and May would be stretching out to start.

 

Based on that I'd say there is absolutely good reason to make changes in season.

This guy gets it!

[DaveW]

Whether or not someone should retain a job over a victimless crime is one debate. I doubt this debate would spring up over a player. Are results any different for the starters under the interim coach? SSS to be the retort on many other instances.

DUI is far from a victimless crime...

If the player was as poor at their job as Allen was then there actually would be a good chance that they were cut from this team.

[DaveW]

I don't want anyone fired. I'd rather see the team I root for--the whole damn lot of them--pull their collective heads out and start winning. Firing people is like popping pills when you get a boo boo. Tonight was a good start--Gibson was good, Dozier did things we expected, it turns out Hughes was also seriously hurt, and Berrios almost threw a no hitter.

 

Rub some dirt on it and quit whining.

I want to see the team I root for eventually compete for a World Series, Terry Ryan has had 20+ years to "build" an organization that could win a title, he has failed, and to top it off the Twins are now in the midst of their worst season of all time.

 

Yes firing people does suck, but it absolutely needs to happen from time to time in sports.

 

Or they can keep everyone around, myself and most other fans will continue to miss 95% of the games as the Twins struggle to lose less than 100 games.

[old nurse]

 

DUI is far from a victimless crime...
If the player was as poor at their job as Allen was then there actually would be a good chance that they were cut from this team.

Alcoholism affects  more than the alcoholic. DUI as the singular crime is victimless.   Your other analogy is pure hogwash in terms of what Thrylos said. Allen has 20 years experience coaching pitching. The guy must be masterful at something to keep getting hired. Will he be the fall guy for the injuries and inconsistencies.? You bet. Might even take Mollie with him

[DaveW]

Alcoholism affects more than the alcoholic. DUI as the singular crime is victimless. Your other analogy is pure hogwash in terms of what Thrylos said.

Bad players (and even decent ones) get cut all the time across sports for being convicted of crimes.

 

I mean I feel bad he is an alcoholic and hope he gets help, but sorry, that doesn't excuse his actions of getting in a car wasted and driving. He definitely should know better, and if he doesn't or can't control himself, then perhaps he should stay in rehab or goto jail so he doesn't drive drunk again.

[DaveW]

What is sad is that is exactly what's going to happen, if anything. I thought it was time for Gardy to go, but I also felt Molitor was the same old same old. Where he has disappointed me most is the apparent lack of discipline, I thought he would be more authoritative. There is only one thing that will move the Pohlads, and that's decreased revenue. This is not a baseball team for them, it's an entertainment venture. How the revenue comes in is a moot point to their bookkeepers.

FWIW attendance is now in the bottom 7 in the major leagues and continuing to fall. Also at this stage I imagine the already shrinking season ticket holder base is taking a significant hit for 2017 renewals as well.

 

The Pohlads certainly will have taken notice. The big question is, will they actually do something about it? Or let GM for life (their words, not mine) Terry Ryan continue to call the shots?

[DaveW]

If you plan to move outside the org with a new general manager - and the Twins should do just that - the guy is going to want to pick his own manager. That puts Mientkiewicz in a bad spot.

 

If you plan to find a new GM, let it ride.

This is true, however Dougie is already well respected in the baseball circles already, if he comes up, gives the team a jolt then he at least puts himself in consideration for the job to the new GM.

 

If the GM then decides to go with someone else, then perhaps Doug catches on somewhere else anyways.

 

Dougie will be a major league manager sooner rather than later anyways, I'd love to see him get his shot now and see what he can do with the youngsters. What's the worst that can happen? Seriously.

[DaveW]

And if Anthony doesn't fail? If the team played better no one would give him credit and we'd all demand he be fired anyway.

 

But of course he wouldn't.

If Anthony made some good trades, and somehow the Twins started winning at a 90 win clip (i.e. a playoff team) I would certainly give him credit and a shot to "stick" around if he could prove that he simply wasn't TR 2.0

 

I have nothing against Anthony at all, he very well could be a much different GM then TR, nobody knows.

 

That is why I would like them to give him the shot now (you have 3-4 months to prove yourself) rather than give him all of 2017/2018/2019 to prove himself.

 

Its not a stretch to say that if Ryan is fired/retires, that the clear odds on favorite to be the next GM is Anthony. Most people don't like that, myself included, but it is the reality of the situation, he is the clear odds on favorite at this stage.

 

Thus why not give him his shot now? If he turns things around? Keep him for 2017. If he doesn't (much more likely) then let him go at the end of the year as well.

[Thrylos]

 

FWIW attendance is now in the bottom 7 in the major leagues and continuing to fall. Also at this stage I imagine the already shrinking season ticket holder base is taking a significant hit for 2017 renewals as well.

The Pohlads certainly will have taken notice. The big question is, will they actually do something about it? Or let GM for life (their words, not mine) Terry Ryan continue to call the shots?

 

Yes, the Pohlads certainly took notice.

 

And they have their President sign every single act from soccer, to little league games, to circus, to redneck concerts, to tractor pulls, to demolition derbies to make up for the cash, no matter how it messes up the ballpark field.

 

That's St. Peter's job and not Ryan's 

[Thrylos]

 

If Anthony made some good trades, and somehow the Twins started winning at a 90 win clip (i.e. a playoff team) I would certainly give him credit and a shot to "stick" around if he could prove that he simply wasn't TR 2.0

 

How do you feel about Bill Smith?  He definitely turned that junk that Ryan left without dealing (Mauer, Santana, Hunter) into a 90 win team, until he decided to let GardyNAndy make the personnel decisions for him...

[DaveW]

How do you feel about Bill Smith? He definitely turned that junk that Ryan left without dealing (Mauer, Santana, Hunter) into a 90 win team, until he decided to let GardyNAndy make the personnel decisions for him...

I think Bill Smith gets blamed way more than he should.

 

He wasn't a great GM, but he wasn't as bad as people say.