Honest qustion: How have the Twins not fired Ryan and/or Molitor at this point?

[nicksaviking]

 

Really easy if you hire Antony.

*ducks and runs*

 

Ouch.

 

But in all seriousness, the longer this club goes into the season without making a change, I think the better the chance this team goes outside the organization to find people this off season.

 

Seriously, if Ryan and Molitor were fired right now, Anthony and Glynn would most assuredly take over. How would everyone feel if the team some how played .500 ball the rest of the way ensuring they get their interim labels removed come November?

 

 

[wsnydes]

Really, the only people in the FO that need to go are the decision makers.  The new decision makers can decide for themselves what other scouts and support staff need to be replaced.  

 

I was on the Dougie bandwagon when Molitor was hired.  I still think he'd be a good fit, but the toxicity of this organization has me pining for fresh blood.  I think it would make a world of difference in the FO and field staff at all levels.  The constant "inbreeding" within this organization over the last two decades has become a problem.

[gmarais66]

Although countless Twins' fans would like to see Ryan canned, it's just not going to happen. We can all say we want it to happen or it should happen, but the Pohlads are not going to fire him. They will chalk it up to bad breaks and stand firmly behind him, as the whole pattern continues in 2017. Even if Ryan somehow decided to quit, as it was mentioned earlier, Anthony would be hired as the new GM. Why? Because that's what the Twins do. They only hire from within. Many of the people on this forum probably weren't even born the last time the Twins hired a GM or manager from outside the organization. It's frustrating and demoralizing, but it's reality. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. That's the Twins' management in a nutshell.

[nicksaviking]

 

Honestly, I would rather fire Ryan now, let Anthony come in and prove he is no different, so he is ultimately "not retained" heading into 2017. Him failing now (Anthony) would insure that he wouldn't be back around in 2017 as the GM. You know damn well that if Ryan is fired at the end of the season, the clear odds on favorite to take over is Anthony or someone else internally.

 

And if Anthony doesn't fail? If the team played better no one would give him credit and we'd all demand he be fired anyway.

 

But of course he wouldn't.

[SwainZag]

 

I never said fire everyone, I said fire Molitor and Ryan. Let the interims (whoever they are) try to turn things around this year, then go into the off-season with the #1 priority of finding a new GM (who will run the whole FO) and let him pick and choose who stays and go in both the FO and the managerial staffs.

 

I know most of us don't have much faith in Anthony, but I am a little curious to see what he would do in a half season if he had 100% control (and not having to get approval from TR) to make the trades/moves needed. Fire Ryan, let Anthony handle the trade deadline, if by some chance he makes some real kickass trades, then let Anthony interview for the full time gig (along with plenty of outside org guys). If he falls on his face or proves to be Ryan 2.0, then he is simply not brought back in 2017 period.

 

 

 

The way I see it, not much is going to change if just Ryan and Molitor are fired.  I think a lot of people give Ryan more credit and more blame than he actually deserves.  It's not just one office atop of the mountain and he makes all the decisions.  Most of the decisions to promote/demote, draft, offer contracts, etc. come form specialized positions, assistants, etc.  If anyone really thinks that swapping out Anthony in for Ryan and Glunn in for Molitor for the rest of the season will bring on big changes in the way things are run, I think you are kidding yourself. 

 

If fans really want change, more than just the top figurehead needs to go.  

[Thrylos]

The Twins will find someone like Jerry and Stellie again to blame this disaster on.

 

Case in point:  The Twins are 15th in the AL in: ERA, H, R, ER, HR, WHIP, etc etc etc, and Ryan is waiting with open arms for their criminal (*) pitching coach to return from his 2 month paid vacation, while his job in the majors meanwhile is given to their 64 year old minor league pitching coordinator of a system that has not delivered a front line pitcher in about a decade.

 

If they cannot fire the pitching coach of the team with the worst pitching in the league, after he committed a crime, do you expect them to fire the manager and the whole front office?  

Baby steps first.  Neil Allen has to go for his performance on and off the field.

 

(*) yes, last time I checked DUI was a crime.

[drivlikejehu]

Antony is not qualified to be the GM of an MLB organization, so even if the team happened to play a little better while he had an interim tag, it would be completely meaningless and not change anything about his suitability for the job. 

 

I do think there is a certain amount of failure that would make complete resistance to change effectively impossible. Now, Ryan will never be fired. That is a fact. Ryan will be involved in any future changes to the front office. That is a fact. But it could play out in several variants:

 

- Ryan is "promoted," hires new GM, either internally or externally

- Ryan "retires," advises Pohlad to hire internally or externally

- Ryan stays in place, makes no changes of note

- Ryan stays in place, makes substantial changes

 

Then there's the question of timeframe - for instance, he could do nothing this off-season, but after 90-100 losses next year finally bring in some new blood. Or he could continue holding out, of course.

 

I don't think Antony, for instance, is a lock to be the Twins next GM. He will be in the front office, but it's possible Ryan will convince Pohlad to spend more money on F.O. salaries since the player payroll will be low for the foreseeable future. In that way he could protect his guys while also trying to salvage his legacy to some extent.

[Halsey Hall]

 

April 7-17

May 8-19

June 9-15

 

3rd worst hitting in the AL

2nd worst pitching in the MLB

Worst fielding team in the AL

Worst record in baseball.

 

Things aren't exactly turning around, in fact things in many ways are getting worse and worse with these two at the helm. They inexplicably let Arcia, a 25 year old, 30+ HR type guy leave for absolutely NOTHING. All he has done since then? Torn the cover off the ball for the Rays to a 1.417 OPS thus far.

 

The few "tradable" assets the Twins do have, haven't been aggressively shopped thus far, their "strategy" with the young players still remains perplexing, and Molitor hasn't changed up his managerial approach at all (besides switching up the batting order 5 times a week)

 

At this stage, it's painfully clear to nearly everyone that Molitor and Ryan aren't cut out to be major league managers/general managers in 2016.

So thus, I ask, how on earth have neither of these guys been fired at this stage? Why are the Twins the only team in ALL of sports that would keep both of these guys around to continue to throw more gasoline on this dumpster fire of a season?

There is no sense in doing that until the season is over.

[lukeduke1980]

I could imagine owners holding the current GM responsible to cut payroll at the trading deadline to make up for decreased revenues.  

[nicksaviking]

 

 

 

 Now, Ryan will never be fired. That is a fact.

 

Ryan will be involved in any future changes to the front office. That is a fact.

 

Neither of those are facts.

 

History does not guarantee future.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Neither of those are facts.

 

History does not guarantee future.

 

Change could happen. But Pohlad will work with Ryan on any changes. I am 100% comfortable saying that is a fact. It's unavoidable really unless Ryan is fired, which will not happen outright. 

[Halsey Hall]

Is there a way to ignore something or someone on TD?

 

[Craig Arko]

 

Is there a way to ignore something or someone on TD?

Click on your user name in the upper right; choose 'Manage Ignore Prefs.' Put in the username and choose Hide Posts and as much else as you think necessary.

[Halsey Hall]

 

Click on your user name in the upper right; choose 'Manage Ignore Prefs.' Put in the username and choose Hide Posts and as much else as you think necessary.

Cool!  Thanks, that will save me time wasted.

[Mr. Brooks]

If we fired Ryan and Mollie a month ago, there is a chance that Arcia would be getting a shot as the everyday DH, Sano would be rehabbing at 3B, and May would be stretching out to start.

 

Based on that I'd say there is absolutely good reason to make changes in season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Plenty of reason to, give someone a shot at being an interim manager to gain some experience/audition for a role here or somewhere else next year.

 

If you can bring up Dougie and he can get them to play close to .500 ball, then I think the next GM seriously interviews him for the permanent position. I'm sure Dougie would take the job/experience as well, even if the odds of him sticking around with a new GM weren't great.

 

Do you think Torch was "hesitant" to take the Wild role mid season? Knowing that baring a miracle he wouldn't be the Wild HC in 2017?

 

Most importantly, you need to show to the players, the fans and everyone else that utter failure is NOT acceptable. Fire Ryan and Molitor now, let Antony or whoever run out the string for the rest of the year as the GM (can't be worst than Ryan) and let Dougie get a shot to get the ML team playing a little bit better.

If you plan to move outside the org with a new general manager - and the Twins should do just that - the guy is going to want to pick his own manager. That puts Mientkiewicz in a bad spot.

 

If you plan to find a new GM, let it ride.

[old nurse]

The decision makers are only as good as the people helping them make the decisions. A long time back Johnson said that they were looking at the effectiveness of the scouts and letting go of some, hiring new ones.  The glacial pace of player development  aside, the prospect rankings could indicate some effectiveness in that department. Not the Gordons and Stewarts, but the Granites, Rosarios, Gonsalves and the like. The international talent pipeline appears to be effective in finding talent

Pohlad made a comment in that they were looking at the effectiveness oft he player development system. The result, if any, should be interesting. Prospect after prospect has come into the system. Not many are coming out better. One could argue that  it is Stell's thing to fix. One could say that more likely the trainig and teaching staff.  The minor leagues have won games. They are not bring talent up to major league level. That could bring up the argument that he scouts are only finding AAAA talent. The circular argument.

 

[old nurse]

The Pohlad method. They did not go outside the organization when McPhail left. They did not go outside the organization when Smith was deemed to be one level of management too high. If they do not view anyone as capable, Ryan will not go anywhere.

[old nurse]

 

 

Is there a way to ignore something or someone on TD?

You want to miss some of the entertaining content?

[Mike Sixel]

 

The decision makers are only as good as the people helping them make the decisions. A long time back Johnson said that they were looking at the effectiveness of the scouts and letting go of some, hiring new ones.  The glacial pace of player development  aside, the prospect rankings could indicate some effectiveness in that department. Not the Gordons and Stewarts, but the Granites, Rosarios, Gonsalves and the like. The international talent pipeline appears to be effective in finding talent

Pohlad made a comment in that they were looking at the effectiveness oft he player development system. The result, if any, should be interesting. Prospect after prospect has come into the system. Not many are coming out better. One could argue that  it is Stell's thing to fix. One could say that more likely the trainig and teaching staff.  The minor leagues have won games. They are not bring talent up to major league level. That could bring up the argument that he scouts are only finding AAAA talent. The circular argument.

 

is the international pipeline good?

 

Putting aside 1 year, where they broke the bank, what has it delivered? I honestly don't know......but I see Sano, Kepler, Polanco, all brought in for REAL money, in 1 year. 

 

I admit, there may be others, I don't know the answer, hence the question.

[nicksaviking]

 

Change could happen. But Pohlad will work with Ryan on any changes. I am 100% comfortable saying that is a fact. It's unavoidable really unless Ryan is fired, which will not happen outright. 

 

Fact: Calvin Griffith will trade away all our good players.

Fact Calvin Griffith will never sell this team.

 

Even if you're 100% comfortable with something, that doesn't make it fact, simply a belief.

[Kwak]

I was in Chicago in the 80's. The Cubs fired EVERYBODY!--right down to the telephone operators and the janitors. A new GM was installed (Dallas Green) who then hired everybody (including some who had been fired!)--and the very next season the Cubs won their division! Maybe lightning can strike twice?

[FargoFanMan]

If we fired Ryan and Mollie a month ago, there is a chance that Arcia would be getting a shot as the everyday DH, Sano would be rehabbing at 3B, and May would be stretching out to start.

Based on that I'd say there is absolutely good reason to make changes in season.

I think that Ryan should have been fired around June 1st. It sends a clear message that this will not be tolerated. Who cares if it's in season. Of course Antony would have been interim but the best thing about that is he immediately feels the pressure. Watching his mentor get canned after 20+ years sends urgency that no one is safe and this needs to be turned around. Not the season but this thinking. Under pressure people do one of two things. They either fold or rise to the occasion. Maybe Antony has what it takes. Who knows when you have a 20 year "legend" telling you what to do. Under pressure maybe he rises to the situation. Who knows. All in all though I think you send that message in season. It forces everyone to think outside the box and question themselves. Then you have longer to evaluate who your new gm might be because let's face it Antony is not gonna succeed. If he does well then awesome. But of a better option is out there you jump on the chance when that last World Series out is made. Or before depending on who it is. As for Molitor. You give him the season unless things really take a nose dive. Reality check though. This will not and won't ever happen as long as there is a pohlad in the owners box. If it was me though I'd be all over stirring up the nest and seeing just what we have in the front office. It's sink or swim time no matter if it's December or June.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Fact: Calvin Griffith will trade away all our good players.

Fact Calvin Griffith will never sell this team.

 

Even if you're 100% comfortable with something, that doesn't make it fact, simply a belief.

 

That may be semantically true, but if the probability is extremely close to 100%, then it's fair to say in a colloquial manner. 

 

If the distinction really matters, then fine - there is a minuscule chance Ryan will be fired. It is the least likely scenario imaginable. Therefore, it's not a possibility worth really considering.

[KirbyDome89]

 

How would you know that? Also, there are approximately 300-350 regular posters on this board. Of that group, 80% of the posts are by 20% of the members. That is hardly a representative example of the millions of loyal Twins fans out there.

I think you've confused loyalty with blind acceptance/support

[old nurse]

 

is the international pipeline good?

 

Putting aside 1 year, where they broke the bank, what has it delivered? I honestly don't know......but I see Sano, Kepler, Polanco, all brought in for REAL money, in 1 year. 

 

I admit, there may be others, I don't know the answer, hence the question.

Thorpe, Diaz, Minier, Wu, Javier, Ynoa,  Landa, Vargas, Hendriks, Sacedo, Vielma, Romero are/were not good prospects?  Arcia is already forgotten?

[Halsey Hall]

 

You want to miss some of the entertaining content?

Some is entertaining, but some is just stupid.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thorpe, Diaz, Minier, Wu, Javier, Ynoa,  Landa, Vargas, Hendriks, Sacedo, Vielma, Romero are/were not good prospects?  Arcia is already forgotten?

 

Not sure if any of them are good, or not. I like some of them as prospects, but they Twins have received very little in terms of MLB production from the international world in the last 20 years, I think. I could clearly be missing someone they signed out of Latin America in that time that helped the MLB team.

 

My bad on Arcia, I thought he was drafted out of PR.....I missed him for sure.

[nicksaviking]

 

I think that Ryan should have been fired around June 1st. It sends a clear message that this will not be tolerated. Who cares if it's in season. Of course Antony would have been interim but the best thing about that is he immediately feels the pressure. Watching his mentor get canned after 20+ years sends urgency that no one is safe and this needs to be turned around. Not the season but this thinking. Under pressure people do one of two things. They either fold or rise to the occasion. Maybe Antony has what it takes. Who knows when you have a 20 year "legend" telling you what to do. Under pressure maybe he rises to the situation. Who knows. All in all though I think you send that message in season. It forces everyone to think outside the box and question themselves. Then you have longer to evaluate who your new gm might be because let's face it Antony is not gonna succeed. If he does well then awesome. But of a better option is out there you jump on the chance when that last World Series out is made. Or before depending on who it is. As for Molitor. You give him the season unless things really take a nose dive. Reality check though. This will not and won't ever happen as long as there is a pohlad in the owners box. If it was me though I'd be all over stirring up the nest and seeing just what we have in the front office. It's sink or swim time no matter if it's December or June.

 

Welcome to the board!

[Dr. Evil]

I am a supporter of getting rid of Terry Ryan. So, he does have a remaining supporter.