Big Papi on the "Sano Experiment"

[Platoon]

Reusse ran into Big Papi. (fortunately not literally) This is what the Big Guy had to say about Sano in RF. I have come to believe that Ortiz will not be invited to many Twins Old Timers Games?

 

http://www.startribune.com/david-ortiz-can-t-figure-the-logic-in-moving-miguel-sano-to-the-outfield/372568961/

[gunnarthor]

 

 

Athletes have changed since the 70s.  I don't know if Sano will work but we will see big, big guys in the corners.  It used to be that you couldn't have 300lb offensive lineman in football, they were too slow and fat.  Now you see left tackles that can run impossibly fast and some guys are approaching 400 lbs.

[Pardon My Dinger]

So, this isn't related to the story, so I'm sorry about that, but for some reason, when I saw Ortiz, I immediately thought of this. If you haven't read this, do yourself a solid. 

http://www.theonion.com/article/david-ortiz-terrified-after-hearing-about-red-sox--20171

 

Now, on with the chlorophyll. 

[Platoon]

So, this isn't related to the story, so I'm sorry about that, but for some reason, when I saw Ortiz, I immediately thought of this. If you haven't read this, do yourself a solid. 

http://www.theonion.com/article/david-ortiz-terrified-after-hearing-about-red-sox--20171

 

Now, on with the chlorophyll.

 

I don't know about bats, but we had a 25 yr old guy in town ball who was terrified of mice. We stuck a toy stuffed mouse in his glove while he was on base. When he got back to the dugout and grabbed his stuff, the screams could be heard in the next county! When I turned back to the field, my base runner that was on second was running across the infield? "Where you going"? I asked. Turns out he was watching the commotion and got picked off second base, flat footed!

[Minniman]

The Twins are always moving players into new positions at the big league. How often has it worked?

 

I pretty much agree with Ortiz on this, but what do I know?

 

[Monkeypaws]

Those were thoughtful comments by David. Time will tell.

[nytwinsfan]

Yeah, Ortiz is right. Sano should be at 3B.

[Dantes929]

I don't buy it. There is anecdotal evidence for and against just about anything.   First of all I am not convinced that Ramirez is more athletic than Sano and Sano is certainly younger which matters and by Ortiz' logic no one should be playing outfield because they will be too tired by the end of the game.    Ramirez not being good in the outfield has no bearing on whether or not Sano will be any good.    If Sano in the outfield is a huge success then the next time a big guy is considered for the outfield that decision maker will point out that Sano was successful so his guy will be too and he will be just as wrong.  

On a different but somewhat related note does anyone think that maybe Park and Milone could be sold high right now in exchange for two good relievers opening the door for May to go back to the rotation, Sano to DH and Arcia to right field until Kepler is ready.   Ok, maybe there is no chance of that but if Park and Milone or Nolasco start out the regular season hot maybe this would be a solution to a lot of problems.    

[Dantes929]

 

The Twins are always moving players into new positions at the big league. How often has it worked?

 

I pretty much agree with Ortiz on this, but what do I know?

Cuddyer didn't have much time in the outfield before he was moved.   Danny Santana worked out quite well.   I don't think Bartlett was a fair example of it not working out because he wasn't gooing to work out no matter where they put him but Escobar and Nunez didn't look too good out there so I guess in my book they are running about 50% in this.    

[TheLeviathan]

Hanley was an infielder moved to the outfield last year?  That just HAD to have gone beautifully.  It's such a smart move that really helps give you a great outfielder every time.

 

- Twins

[dgwills]

I do appreciate that Ortiz gives his honest opinion when it comes to the Twins. It's not anything fans haven't said, but it's good to hear that players have similar concerns. Hopefully he's wrong this time. I think the odds are on his side though.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ortiz never learned to hit opposite field so I'm not sure his opinion carries much weight

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I will say, Reusse has already banged this drum twice this spring, and LENIII was pretty hot on Barreiro today about Berrios and Burdi being demoted. Expectations are being raised this year even with the print media apparently.

[Dr. Evil]

As a larger framed person, I can attest to what Ortiz is saying. When he dives and sprints he will feel it much longer than a prototypical outfielder will. It's not a matter of what he is capable of doing. It's a matter of what it will do to him. That's why I'm so against this move to the outfield. He is a rare talent and for a team obsessed with asset management, this is a poor decision.

[Linus]

Big Papi is hardly the objective source of Twins info. I think we can allow Sano to try and make the transition before we throw the last spade of dirt on the box.

[jimmer]

 

Cuddyer didn't have much time in the outfield before he was moved.   Danny Santana worked out quite well.   I don't think Bartlett was a fair example of it not working out because he wasn't gooing to work out no matter where they put him but Escobar and Nunez didn't look too good out there so I guess in my book they are running about 50% in this.    

Cuddy, despite his arm and the way he played the bag, was not a good OF.  Danny Santana, Bless his soul for the effort, also was not a good OF.

[sane16]

 

Cuddy, despite his arm and the way he played the bag, was not a good OF.  Danny Santana, Bless his soul for the effort, also was not a good OF.

Bad OF don't end up in CF.

[jimmer]

 

As a larger framed person, I can attest to what Ortiz is saying. When he dives and sprints he will feel it much longer than a prototypical outfielder will. It's not a matter of what he is capable of doing. It's a matter of what it will do to him. That's why I'm so against this move to the outfield. He is a rare talent and for a team obsessed with asset management, this is a poor decision.

and that pounding will affect him down the road too.  And, yes, obviously a poor decision.

[jimmer]

 

I will say, Reusse has already banged this drum twice this spring, and LENIII was pretty hot on Barreiro today about Berrios and Burdi being demoted. Expectations are being raised this year even with the print media apparently.

Still way softer than many a market.  If this was New York, Boston, LA, etc, they would be getting pounded constantly in print and radio for this ridiculous decision.

[jimmer]

 

Bad OF don't end up in CF.

Yes they do, comparatively speaking.. So do IFs who have almost  never play OF in their professional career. 

[brvama]

This idea of trying to fit everyone in a certain box seems shortsighted. If merely size is the indicator to whether a player can play a certain position, then Mauer should never had played catcher because he's too tall or Berrios will never be a good top of the line pitcher because he's too short. Point is let's see if Sano is atheletic enough to play the position. It may not work, but let see first.

[sane16]

 

As a larger framed person, I can attest to what Ortiz is saying. When he dives and sprints he will feel it much longer than a prototypical outfielder will. It's not a matter of what he is capable of doing. It's a matter of what it will do to him. That's why I'm so against this move to the outfield. He is a rare talent and for a team obsessed with asset management, this is a poor decision.

Barr, Anthony  LB 6-5 255.....As a larger framed person, Barr covers running backs and slot receivers in man coverage. Anyone who thinks that is easier than playing outfield in MLB, hasn't got a clue!

[TheLeviathan]

 

Barr, Anthony  LB 6-5 255.....As a larger framed person, Barr covers running backs and slot receivers in man coverage. Anyone who thinks that is easier than playing outfield in MLB, hasn't got a clue!

 

I'm not convinced his size makes this impossible, but there is a big difference between 16 times a year and 162.

[sane16]

 

Yes they do, comparatively speaking.. So do IFs who have almost  never play OF in their professional career. 

Santana was a good enough CF to keep Aaron Hicks in Rochester, so I'll go with the Twins evaluation of Santana's outfield abilities, while you can go with your own.

[jimmer]

 

Santana was a good enough CF to keep Aaron Hicks in Rochester, so I'll go with the Twins evaluation of Santana's outfield abilities, while you can go with your own.

And um, what  evaluation are you referring to?  The one where they pulled him back in the IF the following year?

 

The only reason he went to CF is because of poor roster management that forced them to throw an athletic IF to the OF because they trade two CFs and their backup plan wasn't ready.

 

You can appeal to authority at every turn as your argument if you like, because all evidence points to the Twins making the right call in regards to FA pickups, where to play players, etc. Like Twins said Correia would be good, Pelfrey would be good,  Bartlett could play OF and on and on.  Excellent evaluations. 

 

But since he's a poor infielder and they decided not to keep him as a permanent OF, I doubt they really think he's good enough to stay an OF.  And unbias metrics said he was a -5.4 UZR CF in only 500 something innings with zero defensive runs saved.

[sane16]

 

I'm not convinced his size makes this impossible, but there is a big difference between 16 times a year and 162.

16 games times sixty defensive plays per game = 960 times per season.

162 games times TWO chances per game = 234 chances per season.

Please don't tell me how strenuous it was for Torii Hunter in RF compared to Anthony Barr at OLB.

Do you think Hunter can play NFL OLB at age 39?

Apparently he could play MLB RF.

[sane16]

You can appeal to authority at every turn as your argument if you like, because all evidence points to the Twins making the right call in regards to FA pickups, where to play players, etc. Like Twins said Correia would be good, Pelfrey would be good, Bartlett could play OF and on and on. Excellent evaluations.

All evidence also indicates their judgement was good enough to get them baseball employment. Otherwise they would have been blog posters.

[Thrylos]

 

16 games times sixty defensive plays per game = 960 times per season.

162 games times TWO chances per game = 234 chances per season.

 

Chances are equivalent to tackles and tackle attempts and I suspect he does not have more than a dozen a game of those...   Plays are equivalent to opponent PAs.

 

Biggest consideration:  Football players have 6 days to recover.  Baseball players do not.   Also, unlike football players who only play the field, baseball players have to bat as well...

Cannot compare baseball to football in any way.  Different sports.

[Platoon]

Bad OF don't end up in CF.

They do when you traded your other two!

[gunnarthor]

 

The Twins are always moving players into new positions at the big league. How often has it worked?

 

I pretty much agree with Ortiz on this, but what do I know?

It's fairly common and not just with the Twins.  The same year the Twins had Santana in the OF, the Red Sox were doing the same thing with Mookie Betts.  Biggio, famously, came up as a catcher and never had an inning in the minors at second base.  Dale Murphy came up as a catcher and won gold gloves in CF.  Robin Yount and Paul Molitor were moved all over the diamond.  Sano is young and athletic.  He might not succeed but ...

 

As to recent Twins, Dozier, Plouffe, Cuddy, Mauer, Jacque Jones, etc were all moved around in the majors all with limited (or no) minor league reps.