Mauer Says Concussions Blurred His Vision/Walk Away Joe merged threads

[DocBauer]

and Doc asked you for this opinion?

LOL

 

I didn't ask for nuttin!

 

I simply wrote what I feel.

 

Honestly, the more I have read, the more I have reflected, the more I have thought about things...in all seriousness...I find myself cringing at the thought of Mauer standing at the plate and staring down 90MPH+ fastballs the past couple of years, and perhaps next year as well. I truly hope 2016 is different, and all his hard work, and therapy pay off.

 

But factual or not, doesn't it sound just a little bit like the proverbial fighter who could have "X" happen to him the next time he gets hit hard?

 

I mean, agree to disagree with me, thats fine, i get it, but we really are talking about a guy admitting the ball coming at him at home plate the past couple of years at 90 plus has been blurry.

[DocBauer]

The only thing I disagree with, Doc, is your assertion that there have always been Mauer doubters. I think Mauer had fans in everyone for a long time. Then there was the bilateral leg weakness (still not sure what that is), which was the season that coincided with the team collapse (63-99). It was hard to see photos of a smiling healthy-looking Mauer from the waist up, rehabbing down in Fort Myers while the team was going in the tank up in Minneapolis. I think only at that point did it really get sour for a few people--the vocal minority you mentioned.

I get it. I really do. But then again...I did say they were a minority. ☺

[formerly33]

 

Secondly, I find your inference that I wouldn't advise Mauer to walk away if he were hitting .330 to be deeply insulting. If he was hitting .330, he probably A) never received a concussion to begin with, or hadn't received any harmful or lingering effects from said concussions. The entirety of the article was concern for Joe, and his future.

 

While I do believe you were well-meaning in your post, this does somewhat confirm Dave's point. If Joe had hit .330 last year and said this year that he's been having issues with his eyes all along, etc., there would have been a single short article and it would have blown over quickly. So yes, I do seriously believe that your reaction would have been different had Mauer hit .330 last year.

 

You do express a valid concern for Mauer, though, and I appreciate that. However, in answer to your "And now we are hearing about sunglasses and keeping one eye open and one eye closed between innings to conserve your eyes .... This sounds like a solution ... somewhere between a nap and desperation," I must point out that we shouldn't view this as an ineffective, quack remedy as it falls into the exact same category as stretching.

 

Finally, What Is Bilateral Weakness? A straightforward, easy to understand explanation I found just for Hosken Bombo Disco.

[DocBauer]

Great post.

 

And no, the post, and my thoughts, aren't about whether Mauer hit .300 or better last season. Again, if he had, if would mean he hadn't been affected, or it had never happened in the first place. At the very least, we would be hearing what we are hearing now, yes?

 

To use football as an example, I am a big Peyton Manning fan. Thankfully he played for a couple of teams I could cheer for. Lol Had he played for the Cowboys, my opinion might be different. Lol

 

I have absolutely loved watching Manning play. In the same manner as I've greatly enjoyed watching Mauer. But Peyton is almost 40, his arm strength is defiantly fading. His neck has been giving him trouble for a couple years now. (That is not a thing to be taken lightly) And now we hear he will need hip replacement surgery when he retires.

 

I really want Manning to retire at this point, on top, before he suffers additional injury. Could he play again? At least at an acceptable level? Yeah, he might be able to. It's his choice. But I would say the same thing to him at this physical point in his life.

[Pius Jefferson]

It will be interested to see what happens in three years when his contract  ends. He'd be 36 and if he doesn't get better would he retire. 

[DaveW]

Plus that whole pesky PED thing hanging over his head....oh and that old sexual

Assault that just got reported on again, it's probably time for Peyton to go for those reasons and the fact that he and is literally falling apart, plus Peyton was terrible

This season when healthy. (Joe was close to average overall in terms of hitting)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I like the Manning analogy. With both Mauer and Manning it's been a little bit of everything. Like a poster on another thread stated, it really needs to come down to what Mauer can do on the field. Maybe with a part time or platoon role, Mauer's numbers will recover and we can all get along again.

[DaveW]

I like the Manning analogy. With both Mauer and Manning it's been a little bit of everything. Like a poster on another thread stated, it really needs to come down to what Mauer can do on the field. Maybe with a part time or platoon role, Mauer's numbers will recover and we can all get along again.

Not even close to the same.

Manning is significantly older

Manning is dealing with more injuries

Manning plays a more physical sport

Manning just won a title

Manning has some bad press/possible suspension hanging over his head.

Manning can not even throw the ball more than 15-20 yards now. (Joe can still hit better than a ton of major leaguers)

 

Though I would never tell him to do one or the other.

 

A more apt comparison might be Sidney Crosby? But even then it's an apples to oranges comparison.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Yes, as mentioned previously in this thread, some have been made on his behalf by the media. I'm not blaming Joe for every one, rather listing. It is, however, a rather alarming list. Curious when the tide will turn, and the media will stop allowing excuses, and start demanding some answers to some very simple questions. If this was Philly or NY, some of these things would have been addressed by now.

 

The tides already turned with Mauer. Instead of numerous columns filled with outrage there's more of an apathy of how fall his numbers have fallen.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Not even close to the same.

Manning is significantly older

Manning is dealing with more injuries

Manning plays a more physical sport

Manning just won a title

Manning has some bad press/possible suspension hanging over his head.

Manning can not even throw the ball more than 15-20 yards now. (Joe can still hit better than a ton of major leaguers)

Though I would never tell him to do one or the other.

A more apt comparison might be Sidney Crosby? But even then it's an apples to oranges comparison.

I was thinking in terms of both players suffering concussions and other injuries but still able to play competitively.

[nicksaviking]

Serious question, are those that think the Twins/MLB shouldn't stop Mauer from currently playing also against the NFL's new concussion directives?

 

I understand the personal liberty point of view, I am just curious if people view these situations similarly.

[Paul Pleiss]

 

If every athlete who has had a couple of concussions hangs it up will there be anyone left to play?

Would it be so bad if they did?

[jimbo92107]

Concussions drove me out of football after the eighth grade, and looking back, I'm glad. Had one in baseball, too, but that was a freak accident - ball thrown from the outfield hit me in the back of the head while I was pitching batting practice. Thing is, I didn't notice long term symptoms back then, unlike a concussion I suffered several years ago when I was hit by a car on my bicycle. That one didn't seem so bad at the time - I never lost consciousness, but I felt weird and disconnected for six months after that. 

 

Concussions seem to affect you in different ways depending on age, accumulated damage, etc. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that Joe Mauer "had his bell rung" a few times in football, where he played quarterback up through high school. When I was a kid, defensive players were coached to make sure the QB was knocked down on every play. I'd drop back to pass, get rid of the ball, and then wham, get smashed in the head. The whistle didn't matter much. So, after the third time I'd been knocked unconscious in a couple games, they switched me to wide receiver, and never threw me the ball, which was fine by me!

 

If Mauer went through that kind of rough treatment, it could have accumulated, and then made it worse when he started getting pummeled by baseballs as a catcher. If he suffered from anything like the symptoms I did, then playing pro baseball just sounds crazy to me. What if he catches another ball in the side of the head, or a knee to the head like Morneau? 

 

I learned my lesson a long time ago. Stopped playing collision sports and took up tennis. Baseball's not supposed to be much of a collision sport, but we all know better, and baseball players don't wear super-protective helmets. 

 

I agree with Doc that if Mauer is still feeling concussion symptoms, he should take a year off. Maybe come back in 2017 if he's symptom free. What he's doing right now is flirting with personal disaster. 

[big dog]

 

A fair response to this by the Twins would be to limit Joe to 81 games, and directly cite his comments on his own health as reasoning.

Players who are hurt get to play half the games?  How did you decide that number was a fair response?

[Blackjack]

We all knew when Joe signed that big long term contract that the last few years would see a decline in performance but unfortunately the concussions sped up that process.

 

I don't see Joe retiring early, not so much because of the money, he's already made plenty, but because the team is improving and has great potential. Every player wants to win a ring and I think he'll stick around and hope to get to the World Series.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

I agree with Doc, if he is still having issues three years later, maybe he should put his family and health first, over more money that his family will never need. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

To be fair to Doc, he's not a Mauer basher looking for a new angle -- I can tell he's a genuine fan.  And I hope Joe hears some messages like this in his circles.

 

But, it's quite possible we are making a bigger deal of this concussion than necessary.  Joe says he's had trouble picking up the ball at times the past couple years, which is disconcerting, but we still don't really know the degree to which that is true.  He could be having trouble identifying the pitch for purposes of hitting it successfully but still have the same ability to bail to avoid a beanball, which would lessen his risk of life-changing injury to about the same as it is for other players, or his own risk before the concussion.  In that case, there's really no new danger to continuing to play.

 

Of course, as Mauer himself says, pro athletes are wired a bit differently, so it's quite possible Mauer is incapable of making that objective assessment.

[Craig Arko]

They let him drive, too.

 

http://youtu.be/H-_6DeeKgcs

[theBOMisthebomb]

Would it be so bad if they did?

Not necessarily. I believe in choice and people being allowed to make their own decisions. I have wondered if football has a long term future as the knowledge and impact of concussions increases. When I talk to young parents today many of them refuse to let their children play football. Participation rates in football are way down in football hotbeds like Eden Prairie. The NFL and football are still popular today but I wonder what things will look like in 20-30 years? Playing any type of'contact' sport, any sport, activity, walking across the street, leaving the house has at least a small factor of risk involved. It will be interesting to see how society reacts. I don't think many high school athletes that play full-time escape without one incident of a shot to the head - does society ever reach a point where they tell people they cannot play a sport and stop a chance at a scholarship, pro contract, etc. How do we deal with these social issues and their impact?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But he was a league average player with this going on.

League average hitter might be more accurate, although Fangraphs has him trending back on that too (-4.3 batting runs alone for 2015).  Add in a little negative base running, and average defense, and it's quite possible to view Mauer's overall performance as below average even before a positional adjustment (which obviously drags him down even further, -0.8 bWAA and roughly -2.0 fWAA in 2015).

[Mike Sixel]

Ya, I don't know how you call him league average, if you are comparing him to 1B or DH......

[diehardtwinsfan]

Given the amount of time that Mauer has needed to recover, I think it can be safely said that 2013 wasn't likely the first time he had his bell rung so to speak (whether that was in HS as a football player or even as a pro baseball player, who knows).  That said, I think he has about 69 million reasons to stick around for 3 more years.  I get that his contracts are guaranteed, but I suspect that like it or not, Mauer probably doesn't like the idea of collecting that money without performing. 

 

As for hanging it up... well, that's up to him.  I'd probably think about it if I were in his shoes (but to be fair, I'd probably keep playing if I was him as well), as he's taking some risks. Concussions have links to ALS and CTE where as bi-lateral leg weakness is often associated with ALS.... not exactly a way to go if you ask me.  I guess I just hope he understands the risks.  That's probably the biggest problem most athletes face with these types of issues.  They don't understand the risk.  The reward is often worth it, but the risks are very real.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Ya, I don't know how you call him league average, if you are comparing him to 1B or DH......

 

I wasn't comparing him to other 1B or DH.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I wasn't comparing him to other 1B or DH.

 

So, compared to SS and CF and C and pitchers? What is the point of comparing him w/o context?

[USAFChief]

I think it's beyond possible that a MLB player "doesn't understand the risks. "

 

He has access to the best doctors available and almost certainly has heard, from several of them, what the risks are.

[Seth Stohs]

 

So, compared to SS and CF and C and pitchers? What is the point of comparing him w/o context?

 

Just to show that he's not as terrible as some people seem to think. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Just to show that he's not as terrible as some people seem to think. 

Not sure who those "some people" are, but they don't seem to be here.  Was somebody claiming that Joe Mauer's recent hitting would be bad for a catcher?  Actually I seem to hear the exact opposite of that (that, in the hypothetical world where Mauer was still catching, he's be significantly more valuable right now).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That said, I think he has about 69 million reasons to stick around for 3 more years.  I get that his contracts are guaranteed, but I suspect that like it or not, Mauer probably doesn't like the idea of collecting that money without performing. 

On the other hand, he may view that as fair compensation given the risks he was previously assuming while catching.

[Squirrel]

Moderator note: I merged two threads because there are just too many currently in the same subject. Since article threads can't be merged, I've merged the other two as reflected in the title.

[Craig Arko]

Interesting little read. I presume Mauer had to pass the concussion protocol to return to playing.

 

http://mayohealthhighlights.startribune.com/2016/02/05/hard-hitting-facts-about-concussion/