Mauer Says Concussions Blurred His Vision/Walk Away Joe merged threads

[jorgenswest]

The Twins don't know what is ahead for Joe. It is nice that Justin won a batting title in year 3 but not relevant. There would need to be a lot more cases of concussions and recovery times to have any hope in year 3. I suspect each path to partial or full recovery is very different.

 

It is very likely that Joe will need to moved to a part time role before his contract expires. That may happen this year if Vargas or Arcia push themselves forward. I don't now and have never questioned Joe's work ethic or commitment to the team and game. A knee injury cut Tony's career short. Kirby's was cut short by his vision. No one questioned them. We should not question Joe. We should question the Twins decision making at first base if he does not return closer to his previous level of performance.

 

It is sad that his career may have been derailed by the concussion. That concussion does not need to derail the team also.

[DocBauer]

To me, gut feeling, this is the very private Joe finally opening up...not apologizing...but explaining; "guys, I've tried my best, but to be honest, I just haven't been right the past couple of years. I'm feeling a little better, working hard, trying a few thinvs, and hoping for better."

 

And I hope we do see a renaissance of Mauer in 2016.

 

What he's not saying out loud, and perhaps not admitting fully, is that if things don't get better, he might be near the end. And for Joe, his family, and the Twins organization, some kind of buy out-stick with the team-personal services-retirement plan may be forthcoming.

[Winston Smith]

If he was having blurred vision he should be seeing a Dr and not playing baseball, imo. Of course, the Dr would be blurry.  

[DrNeau]

I'm glad he has finally came around to blame the concussions. That way we can ignore the increased strike outs and reduced contact rate before the concussions.

There have been a ton of excuses. Some he has made, and many more others have made for him. Either way, I hope to see an increase in production or there should be some consideration in platooning him. If someone is ill-affected by injury, that is. That is what he is now saying, after many documented quotes in 2014 and 2015 spring trainings where he said he was "feeling good", "feeling strong", etc.

 

Now here we are in 2016 and he states he has had vision problems for a few years. In a recent article it stated his "stretching" trainer reports Joe's progress to Perry Castellano, the Twins' strength and conditioning coach. The way it was stated, it makes one wonder what Joe's direct relationship is with the Twins' strength and conditioning coach. After Joe's comment today, it makes one wonder what his relationship with the Twins' medical staff is.

[Guest]

 

I thought he was healthy because he and the team said he was healthy, and he was getting more playing time than ever before in his career.  If his vision was regularly blurry last year, it's pretty inexcusable to push him like that.

It's not clear to me from the article just how much the team was aware of his vision problems. His comments about how much he shared with Molitor and others were pretty coy, pretty much admitting that he wasn't terribly forthcoming.

 

I'm not suggesting we let the Twins FO off the hook totally. We all could see Mauer hasn't been "right" so certainly the FO had to see the same thing. I'm just not sure we can assume that they "pushed" Mauer to play through potentially dangerous blurry vision.

 

[Thrylos]

Cannot help it:

 

http://gapingvoid.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/excuses-are-a-disease.jpg

[drjim]

 

To me, gut feeling, this is the very private Joe finally opening up...not apologizing...but explaining; "guys, I've tried my best, but to be honest, I just haven't been right the past couple of years. I'm feeling a little better, working hard, trying a few thinvs, and hoping for better."

And I hope we do see a renaissance of Mauer in 2016.

What he's not saying out loud, and perhaps not admitting fully, is that if things don't get better, he might be near the end. And for Joe, his family, and the Twins organization, some kind of buy out-stick with the team-personal services-retirement plan may be forthcoming.

 

I agree with all of this. I had some thoughts last year that he might be nearing a point of getting out. This strikes me as him feeling good and mentally giving himself one last good shot.

[nicksaviking]

I know this may sound biased coming from a fan who has concerns about Mauer and the spot he takes up on the 25-man, but this isn't right. If he's still having symptoms three years later and his brain has been damaged to the point that he needs sunglasses to function properly, where are his people telling him this game is unfortunately too dangerous for him?

 

If this was happening to a player in the NFL right now, it would be a pretty big deal and there would be pressure to stop him from playing even if he was somehow able to pass their cuncussion protocol. This isn't right.

[DocBauer]

I know this may sound biased coming from a fan who has concerns about Mauer and the spot he takes up on the 25-man, but this isn't right. If he's still having symptoms three years later and his brain has been damaged to the point that he needs sunglasses to function properly, where are his people telling him this game is unfortunately too dangerous for him?

If this was happening to a player in the NFL right now, it would be a pretty big deal and there would be pressure to stop him from playing even if he was somehow able to pass their cuncussion protocol. This isn't right.

It's not biased Nick, it's reality. In college football, and the NFL when they actually follow their own protocol, the things that Joe is saying now, he wouldn't be allowed in the field. And Joe is facing ML pitchers with 90+ MPH stuff? Forget production, let's talk about safety.

 

The best player on my Big Red Huskers mens basketball team had a very hard tumble a couple days ago, flipping over the back of an opponent. He was pretty seriously concussed. He missed the next game a few days later and is out, reportedly, for the next game. This is basketball we are talking about. Just like the other half of the beloved, talented and dangerous M&M boys, this is tragic as can be. But forget sports tragedy...this is getting real life serious.

[formerly33]

Not playing a game of he said, they said, I said, but, this is interesting news considering there have been a lot of split discussions concerning Mauer suffering post concussion issues vs Mauer aging and just losing it. (Or not working hard, etc)

 

My question, and it's an honest one, not trolling, do we applaud Mauer for being a gamer and trying to play and help his team, or, do we chastise Mauer and the Twins for not telling anyone and continuing to play Mauer, particularly in high leverage lineup spots, despite knowing of this issue?

I personally feel like they're desperate to figure out what's up (familiar, huh? ), and they're jumping at this possibility. Could be the problem, but it might also not be (in the  long run, that is). It doesn't sound good, though.

 

Seems like this could have significant implications for the roster.

Morneau ... ?

[Seth Stohs]

Morneau had his disastrous comeback in 2011, but then had a 112 OPS+ in his first full year back from the concussion, and had largely abandoned power hitting by the time he won his batting title in Colorado.  Mauer doesn't have that option.  It would be nice to see him cut his K's down like Morneau did, though, and squeeze some more effectiveness out that way.

 

And Span's hitting issues started before his concussion, and he was only 30 when he "bounced back" (likely had nothing to do with the concussion, though).

 

It seems Mauer has fallen harder, longer than those guys.  This news about his vision isn't encouraging either.

 

I'm not implying he'll win another batting title. I'm just saying that it's possible he's not completely done and can return to being a .300 hitter.

[Seth Stohs]

Re: vision issues and concussions.

 

Nothing new.  Has always been on the CDC checklist.

Correct. This isn't new or surprising information. It was expected. Good days and bad days. Only really new info is the plan to wear glasses.

[Seth Stohs]

It's not clear to me from the article just how much the team was aware of his vision problems. His comments about how much he shared with Molitor and others were pretty coy, pretty much admitting that he wasn't terribly forthcoming.

 

I'm not suggesting we let the Twins FO off the hook totally. We all could see Mauer hasn't been "right" so certainly the FO had to see the same thing. I'm just not sure we can assume that they "pushed" Mauer to play through potentially dangerous blurry vision.

I don't understand why there has to be blame. We don't know what Molitor or those in the front office knew. Not sure it would matter. Joe said there have been good and bad days.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm just not sure we can assume that they "pushed" Mauer to play through potentially dangerous blurry vision.

Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. Just meant they played him too much to the detriment of the team, that's all. Probably should have at least kept him on his routine of 1-2 days off per week, etc. Wouldn't have solved anything, but would have given others some opportunity (maybe Sano comes up a month earlier last year), lessened the pressure on Joe, and made it easier to transition him to a part-time role if needed. Instead, they tried to make him into an iron man.

[Riverbrian]

What matters is, if the Twins are to be a WS contender, I don't think they can accommodate a first baseman sucking up 650 PAs with a sub-.750 OPS.

We could absorb it at 1B if our catcher hit .850 plus.

 

Go get em Murph!!!

[Riverbrian]

It's not clear to me from the article just how much the team was aware of his vision problems. His comments about how much he shared with Molitor and others were pretty coy, pretty much admitting that he wasn't terribly forthcoming.

 

I'm not suggesting we let the Twins FO off the hook totally. We all could see Mauer hasn't been "right" so certainly the FO had to see the same thing. I'm just not sure we can assume that they "pushed" Mauer to play through potentially dangerous blurry vision.

I'm sympathetic to concussion issues however I'm not comfortable with a player playing compromised.

 

If Joe wasn't forthcoming... I'm not cool with that and if Joe was forthcoming and Molly said get in there anyway... I'm not cool with that either.

 

It ain't good if Joe is playing baseball like me trying to read my cellphone.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's nothing new in this article except the sunglasses. But then, I'm not around the team every day. In fact I would say that this article actually raises more questions than it answers. 

[Kwak]

This revelation is fishy to me.  What is the purpose of raising the point now?  As opposed to when the symptoms first appeared--or after Joe retires?  Are we to conclude that the symptoms persist?--or no longer present?

[D. Hocking]

 

Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. Just meant they played him too much to the detriment of the team, that's all. Probably should have at least kept him on his routine of 1-2 days off per week, etc. Wouldn't have solved anything, but would have given others some opportunity (maybe Sano comes up a month earlier last year), lessened the pressure on Joe, and made it easier to transition him to a part-time role if needed. Instead, they tried to make him into an iron man.

 

Yes - concussion issues aside -- I have felt a couple of years (last year and I believe 2013) the team and/or Joe was very sensitive to the criticism that he does not play enough and their main goal was to have him play a record number of games for the season.  There were a few  times when I thought he needed a break, but I think they kept him in so they could say -- see, Mauer is on track to play a record  number of games.

 

 

[Craig Arko]

Will wait and see the results.

[Platoon]

As for not saying more, or taking some time off, I would imagine Mauer looked back at his episode of leg issues which someone else labeled bi lateral leg something, and decided "NAH, I ain't goin there again"! Athletes don't get to these levels without being uber competitive. And almost all, in any sport, will try and play on. But it's also likely that the most difficult place to hide concussion issues would be hitting a baseball. From both a safety and production standpoint, the results could be at best disappointing, and at worst disastrous. Even now I don't think he has admitted the extent of his injury. He looked lost at the plate last year, not only in the swings he missed, but in the called third strikes. I always contended a lot of them were the result of him being no longer the recipient of the "catchers strike zone", but now it appears some were the result of just not being able to pick up the ball.

[Platoon]

This whole topic has made me think of Josmil Pinto. Quite a bit younger. Hopefully if he is patient, and lucky, he still has a career ahead of him.

[Guest]

 

Correct. This isn't new or surprising information. It was expected. Good days and bad days. Only really new info is the plan to wear glasses.

Ir's not "new" that occasional blurriness is on the CDC checklist for people who have had a concussion.

 

But, at least to me, it is very new and surprising information to learn from Mauer, himself, that he was experiencing occasional blurriness while at the plate over the past couple of years and that he was not necessarily making his manager or others aware of this.

 

As for why this information is coming out now, I don't see anything nefarious about the timing. I suspect it could be as simple as because he was asked about it. He didn't call a press conference to announce it, he was asked questions about the topic by a columnist during the course of an extended interview.

 

[spinowner]

There are many of us who have been saying over the course of the last two seasons that the correlation between his concussion and the decrease in his offensive production is so significant that it's highly likely that the former caused the latter. This newly-surfaced information certainly lends support to that hypothesis, but even if he didn't notice any specific symptoms concussions can cause subtle changes that aren't readily apparent to the sufferer. Looking back, none of his previous injuries resulted in much of a change in his hitting skills. And it's rare for an elite hitter to experience such a precipitous dropoff at his age. There's a principle in logic called Occam's Razor which states that the simplest explanation is also the most likely one. It appears to me that it applies here.

[DrNeau]

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's nothing new in this article except the sunglasses.

Correct. This is a newly-released excuse. Previously, it was:

 

* No longer seeing the ball well at the plate because he's not catching.

* Umpires are no longer giving him the benefit of calls at the plate because he no longer catching.

* Defensive shifts by opponents

* Being pitched around

* Unlucky

* Weak legs... he's not getting as many squat workouts, because he hasn't been catching BP

 

Hate to say "here we go again with the excuses", but here we go again with the excuses.

 

I truly hope this year he breaks out, though. If not, some accountability is in order.

[nicksaviking]

This isn't an excuse, it is pre-emptive PR. If Mauer shows up at spring training wearing sun glasses while hitting and we didn't know this, everyone would be jumping to conclusions.

 

What this should be viewed as though, is a cry for help. The league has to be extremely tone deaf in not knowing the current cultural temperature regarding concussions. Someone needs to intervene here and say if the NFL and their history of indifference toward player safety is doing something about this, we probably better act too.

[spinowner]

*sigh*
I realize that some people refuse to accept the idea that Mauer's concussion is a very reasonable and highly likely explanation for the decrease in his offensive production. But I do not understand why some people refuse to accept the idea that Mauer's concussion is a very reasonable and highly likely explanation for the decrease in his offensive production.

[DrNeau]

It's not an insult to call it an excuse. If it's a valid reason to excuse poor production, then it is a valid excuse. If it's not, it's not. Regardless, it's an excuse. It's not such a big deal to call it that.

[Craig Arko]

If Mauer shows up at spring training wearing sun glasses while hitting and we didn't know this, everyone would be jumping to conclusions.

He recently discovered Stevie Wonder?

[drjim]

 

This isn't an excuse, it is pre-emptive PR. If Mauer shows up at spring training wearing sun glasses while hitting and we didn't know this, everyone would be jumping to conclusions.

What this should be viewed as though, is a cry for help. The league has to be extremely tone deaf in not knowing the current cultural temperature regarding concussions. Someone needs to intervene here and say if the NFL and their history of indifference toward player safety is doing something about this, we probably better act too.

 

They did move him from catcher.

 

You can't fully eliminate the risk of concussions, but you can take steps to reduce the likelihood. The issue in football is not necessarily the occasional concussion but the repeated pounding from repeated hits. That is just not an issue in baseball, if he is still able to function (albeit at a slightly diminished capacity), it is kind of up to the player at that point.