Dozier to the Yankees for a Catcher?

[jsteve96]

Brian Doziers second half struggles continued, and his overall value went way down. I don't see his value going up much more with teams knowing exactly what he's going to try and do with the ball, with his pull % increasing dramatically every year, its only a matter of time all of his numbers drop quickly as well.. i'd try a Dozier for Sanchez trade maybe get a lower level arm as well? would you?

[Mike Sixel]

If you think Dozier is going to be "bad"*....aren't the Yankees that smart too?

 

that said, IF the Twins think Sanchez can stick at C, and IF the Twins think Polanco is near-ready, I'd consider a deal like that. Let's be real, they aren't getting Sanchez for other prospects, good prospects aren't traded for other good prospects, it just doesn't happen.

 

edit: I don't think he will be, btw.

[Kwak]

The Mets will be looking for a 2B.  Perhaps there is a catcher (or 2) that could be obtained?

[LimestoneBaggy]

IF they'd consider trading Dozier, I suppose the question is whether Polanco is a comparable second baseman (.661 OPS in Rochester/.739 in Chattenooga)?

[Winston Smith]

Dozier for Refsnyder and Murphy or Sanchez would work for me!

[jsteve96]

 

The Mets will be looking for a 2B.  Perhaps there is a catcher (or 2) that could be obtained?

 

IF they'd consider trading Dozier, I suppose the question is whether Polanco is a comparable second baseman (.661 OPS in Rochester/.739 in Chattenooga)?

AAA sample size is pretty small. sorta like that MLB sample size what does he have like a .950 OPS? ha

[Reider]

The Twins should be looking at and carefully considerng all of their options moving forward.

 

I'd rather keep Dozier than trade him away, but if the Twins can get the right player(s) in return for him and have a quality replacement for him at second base, I'd consider that. I'm just not convinced that this is the case, so I can't see the Twins trading him away at this point in time.

 

Given the Twins' current situation, it may make more sense to trade Plouffe (plus someone else?) away instead of Dozier, but then again, that might not be giving away enough to get what we need.

 

I just don't get the point of opening one hole to fill another. What makes sense to me is making moves that result in filling all positions adequately (at minimum). For instance, I would rather see Sano play 3rd base (he's already proven to be a good hitter and has a strong arm defensively) than go out on a hope and prayer that Polanco is magically ready to be a legitimate MLB 2nd baseman / hitter.

[Major League Ready]

 

Dozier for Refsnyder and Murphy or Sanchez would work for me!

I am not a big fan of trading Dozier but hey ... if they can get a great return you have to be willing to consider it.  That said the Yankees seem much less willing to give up top prospects than they have been in the past.  The package you suggest is pretty logical given Dozier would be blocking Refsnyder.  The Yankees are going to need to do something that pays immediate dividends if they want to be the favorite to win the East in 2016.  This might just work.

 

I wonder if Ramirez would consider a 1 year contract to rebuild value with a guarantee we would not make a qualifying offer?  Move Escobar to 2nd for 2016.

 

[Kwak]

 

The Twins should be looking at and carefully considerng all of their options moving forward.

 

I'd rather keep Dozier than trade him away, but if the Twins can get the right player(s) in return for him and have a quality replacement for him at second base, I'd consider that. I'm just not convinced that this is the case, so I can't see the Twins trading him away at this point in time.

 

Given the Twins' current situation, it may make more sense to trade Plouffe (plus someone else?) away instead of Dozier, but then again, that might not be giving away enough to get what we need.

 

I just don't get the point of opening one hole to fill another. What makes sense to me is making moves that result in filling all positions adequately (at minimum). For instance, I would rather see Sano play 3rd base (he's already proven to be a good hitter and has a strong arm defensively) than go out on a hope and prayer that Polanco is magically ready to be a legitimate MLB 2nd baseman / hitter.

It's much easier to find a good 2B, than a good catcher.  Or, why Dozier was moved to 2B from SS, and Murphy (Mets) was moved to 2B.

[jsteve96]

 

The Twins should be looking at and carefully considerng all of their options moving forward.

 

I'd rather keep Dozier than trade him away, but if the Twins can get the right player(s) in return for him and have a quality replacement for him at second base, I'd consider that. I'm just not convinced that this is the case, so I can't see the Twins trading him away at this point in time.

 

Given the Twins' current situation, it may make more sense to trade Plouffe (plus someone else?) away instead of Dozier, but then again, that might not be giving away enough to get what we need.

 

I just don't get the point of opening one hole to fill another. What makes sense to me is making moves that result in filling all positions adequately (at minimum). For instance, I would rather see Sano play 3rd base (he's already proven to be a good hitter and has a strong arm defensively) than go out on a hope and prayer that Polanco is magically ready to be a legitimate MLB 2nd baseman / hitter.

Polanco has been ready to be a major league hitter since july last year. he was one of the quickest developers in the system and i believe he'd be very good at 2B, if not Eduardo moving there and sign a FA. while we'd also get a stud Catcher Gary Sanchez

[Reider]

It's much easier to find a good 2B, than a good catcher.

True

 

Or, why Dozier was moved to 2B from SS, and Murphy (Mets) was moved to 2B.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say, but I agree that it's easier to find a good 2nd baseman than a good SS. SS is an extremely tough position to play at a high level. It takes a special person to play the position. You are right here, there's a reason why Dozier was moved to 2nd base and it turned out to be a great move for both the player and the team. Dozier's skill set was meant for 2nd base, not SS.

 

I understand why others are less hesitant than me to want to trade Dozier away. I just think he adds so much value to the team. He's outstanding on defence and just imagine if he could hit behind a proper leadoff hitter? The Twins would have to get a substantial return in order for me to feel good about trading him away.

[Reider]

 

 

Polanco has been ready to be a major league hitter since july last year. he was one of the quickest developers in the system and i believe he'd be very good at 2B, if not Eduardo moving there and sign a FA. while we'd also get a stud Catcher Gary Sanchez

If Polanco can hit at the MLB level then I am open to bringing him up.

 

My one concern with building a team is that you develop players, then when they become all-stars you trade them away to fill other holes that you are unable or unwilling to fill through alternative means. The result is the organization is not unlike a dog chasing it's own tail around and is in a constant rebuilding phase.

 

Dozier was a huge part of the Twins nearly making the playoffs this year. In my opinion, he has been a part of the solution over the last few years. I wouldn't want to trade him away when the team is so close to a playoff run unless the return is well worth it and it makes sense moving forward both in the short term and in the long term. If the return makes sense for the rebuild then, no problem, pull the trigger. Otherwise, lets look at other options.

[jsteve96]

 

If Polanco can hit at the MLB level then I am open to bringing him up.

 

My one concern with building a team is that you develop players, then when they become all-stars you trade them away to fill other holes that you are unable or unwilling to fill through alternative means. The result is the organization is not unlike a dog chasing it's own tail around and is in a constant rebuilding phase.

 

Dozier was a huge part of the Twins nearly making the playoffs this year. In my opinion, he has been a part of the solution over the last few years. I wouldn't want to trade him away when the team is so close to a playoff run unless the return is well worth it and it makes sense moving forward both in the short term and in the long term. If the return makes sense for the rebuild then, no problem, pull the trigger. Otherwise, lets look at other options.

Dozier's second half hurt the Twins and his 3.5 WAR was not all star caliber, he was all star caliber up until the game i'll say. catching position needed more than 2nd Base and we have Michael, Polanco, and Bereford??? idk if he's still signed or not but i like a michael/Polanco attempt for sure

[Reider]

Dozier's second half hurt the Twins and his 3.5 WAR was not all star caliber, he was all star caliber up until the game i'll say.

Absolutely. Dozier wasn't the same hitter in the second half. He was still pretty good defensively, even though he did make a few errors. I would really like to know if he had some undisclosed injury or if he was mentally drained or if pitchers just figured him out. Also, I noticed Perkins fell off of the map after the all-star break as well. I'm sure there were more. The team just wasn't quite the same after the all-star break.

 

catching position needed more than 2nd Base and we have Michael, Polanco, and Bereford??? idk if he's still signed or not but i like a michael/Polanco attempt for sure

Yes, but none of those guys are proven at the MLB level. Unless Dozier is replaced at 2nd base with a proven player, you're just opening one hole to fill another, thus starting the development process all over again. How is your team going to win if you are continually starting from scratch at various prositions year after year? At some point you need to have a full roster of proven players if you want to make a playoff run. I know the Twins were very fortunate last year and had a few rookies have solid seasons (e.g. Rosario, Sano, Duffey etc..), but having that many players have breakout rookie seasons isn't the norm.

 

Show me 1) Which proven MLB player replaces Dozier @ second base and 2) What the Twins' infield would look like with Dozier gone in a trade. These are two things open for anyone / everyone to post. I'd love to see what people have in mind moving forward without Dozier around. It's easier to get on board when I can see the big picture. As of right now, I"m just not seeing it. I think i'd have a lot easier time parting with Plouffe unless a guy like Polanco steps up big and impresses me (e.g. can slap leather and put up good numbers offensively), similarly to the way the aformentioned rookies did this year. I could get get behind a rookie like that, but it's risky, there's no guarantee. Trading Plouffe seems more logical to me. Trading Dozier seems like a much larger risk.

 

The Twins took a leap forward this year from last year and as of right now they are one step away from making the playoffs. I understand that without taking risks, there are no rewards. I am just not convinced that trading our all-star 2nd baseman is the right move to make in order to get the team into the playoffs in 2016 and beyond. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[stringer bell]

My problem with moving Dozier and/or Plouffe this offseason is that there is so much unproveness amongst the position players. In my book, over the last three years Dozier and Plouffe have proven themselves to be capable major league regulars. We had Sano, Hicks, and Rosario perform capably last year, but the year before Arcia, Santana and Vargas were all to some degree "breaking out" and all three ended up in the minors.                                                                                                                                                                                  Dozier put up a fine two and a half years, of near elite play at his position and had a bad 70-game stretch. Does it foretell his permanent decline? I don't think so. If he is close to the .840 OPS he had at the break, his value is a lot more than a good catching prospect.

[ThejacKmp]

 

It's a bit disingenuous to insist on a proven major league player, you sound like Gardy loving some vets!

 

I Don't agree with the concept of trading dozier because this isn't the only way the twins could get a catcher and I like some of the other ways better. That said, your logic is false. The twins have a gaping hole in their organizational depth chart at catcher. No one looks ready for next year and it's really doubtful anyone will be ready even the year after. Second base is not the same - the twins don't have some washed up vet who is "proven" there but in polanco/Santana and even Nunez they have some intriguing options that could fill in while solving their catching woes once and for all. They also could easily sign a second baseman for far less than a catcher demands (and catchers don't hit the market very often). Catcher is more important than 2b so your argument about opening another hole is flawed.

 

Its like if I'm doing yard work and I have a great leaf blower but no lawn mower. Yeah if I trade my blower for a mower raking becomes harder but the lawn mower is so much more valuable that the trade might be worth it.

[ThejacKmp]

 

A better argument against it would be "dozier is a top 5 second baseman, Sanchez will not be a top 5 catcher anytime soon. You weaken one position while not doing enough to upgrade the other, especially since there are other options out there."

 

To extend my stupid lawn care analogy, your leaf blower is brand spanking new and awesome and the lawnmower is a pretty cheap blah mower. You can find a different mower somewhere else and keep your sweet leaf blower.

[HitInAPinch]

I've mentioned this in the past.  It's been written that the Yankees are "desperate" to fix their 2B situation and are willing to pay big bucks for Murphy.  However, Cashman has been trying to move them away from their big spending days.  [ I did say, trying     ]  Dozier seems like a good fit for the Yankees. 

 

Sanchez is only 22, but who cares?  The link below gives some more current info on Sanchez.

http://riveraveblues.com/tag/gary-sanchez/

 

I believe the Twins are a lot further away from sustained success than most.  Let's face it:  they were in a playoff race that  was manufactured by MLB.  4 games over .500 is a great success, for any team coming off 4, 90 loss seasons.  The Twins did finish 2nd in the AL Central, 12 games out. 

 

If the Twins want to competitive  again next year, there's a lot of room for improvement.  Will Sanchez alone do that?  No.  It's early, but I wouldn't bet the house on any of the in-house catching prospects.  A trade for Gary Sanchez [ or similarly talented prospect ] might be the only hope.

 

It's also been reported the Yanks are looking for pitching.....

 

[Platoon]

When I view Doziers value I view the ceiling as something mid point between his first halves and second halves of the last two years. He can be a better hitter than he was the last two halves, but cannot be the hitter he was the first halves. Why? Because he is not a power hitter, period. And the only pitches he can hit with power, will be few and far between. To get to what I perceive as his real ceiling, he will have to start hitting the outside pitch to the right side, and he cannot hit HR in that direction. Doubles, sure. Decent fielder, and base runner, certainly. Regardless, I still think his value is at a peak now, as his gaudy first half numbers still allow the illusion of what he could be. I would trade him for an acceptable catcher in a heart beat. But, since I am posting this on a Twins site, I also know the chances of that happening are <0!

[sorney]

 

A better argument against it would be "dozier is a top 5 second baseman, Sanchez will not be a top 5 catcher anytime soon. You weaken one position while not doing enough to upgrade the other, especially since there are other options out there."

To extend my stupid lawn care analogy, your leaf blower is brand spanking new and awesome and the lawnmower is a pretty cheap blah mower. You can find a different mower somewhere else and keep your sweet leaf blower.

Raking is all fine and dandy for the first 5 minutes, then it sucks!!  Plus, more leaves just end up falling anyway.  

 

Dozier - I don't think anyone on this roster should be untouchable sans Sano, however Dozier has high enough value I think you shoot for more than just Sanchez

[nicksaviking]

I like Dozier and think he can be a very good ballplayer, but he might actually be hurting the Twins in the way they're using him.  Even during his excellent 1st half of the season, he only had a .328 OBP, the Twins have to do better than that for the top of the order but I'm not sure the Twins and Molitor would actually move him down the lineup.

 

I'd be willing to trade him for a nice return, however Daniel Murphy, Howie Kendrick and Ben Zobrist are all free agents.  It's hard to say if the Twins would be able to leverage Dozier's lower contract against those guys, or if the glut of 2B is too much to overcome.  Also, if 35-year-old Zobrist is only able to get a two-year-deal, I'd be all for trading Dozier and overpaying for Zobrist.

[Steve Lein]

 

I like Dozier and think he can be a very good ballplayer, but he might actually be hurting the Twins in the way they're using him.  Even during his excellent 1st half of the season, he only had a .328 OBP, the Twins have to do better than that for the top of the order but I'm not sure the Twins and Molitor would actually move him down the lineup.

 

I'd be willing to trade him for a nice return, however Daniel Murphy, Howie Kendrick and Ben Zobrist are all free agents.  It's hard to say if the Twins would be able to leverage Dozier's lower contract against those guys, or if the glut of 2B is too much to overcome.  Also, if 35-year-old Zobrist is only able to get a two-year-deal, I'd be all for trading Dozier and overpaying for Zobrist.

 

It's not your prototypical OBP from a top of the lineup guy, but it's still decent. Also, despite the second half decline, because of everything else he does, he was one of 13 players in all of MLB to score 100+ runs. I don't think he was hurting anything in this regard.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Brian Doziers second half struggles continued, and his overall value went way down. I don't see his value going up much more with teams knowing exactly what he's going to try and do with the ball, with his pull % increasing dramatically every year, its only a matter of time all of his numbers drop quickly as well.

I don't understand this thinking at all. People have been predicting doom and gloom for Dozier four years running.

 

And it hasn't happened. So please, stop predicting it... One doesn't get to claim "I predicted that!" after being wrong about it the first five times it didn't happen.

 

Also, the Twins have no one to back up Dozier so no, they should not trade him. Maybe at some point in 2016, Polanco makes his case and the situation changes.

[dgwills]

The Yankees have Rob Refsynder who is a pretty good prospect at 2nd and is ready to play at the mlb level. I would think that he'll get a shot this year. Trading Dozier this year seems a bit early. I would wait and  see if Polanco is busting down the door next year  with his bat, but not good enough defensively to play SS. I'm not sure if I like Gary Sanchez as a prospect anyways. There are a lot of questions about his defense at catcher.

[mazeville]

I'd totally consider trading Dozier to fill a need. But given his second half struggles in each of the past two years, I think you'd have a tough time getting comparable value for him. 

 

To be honest, the Twins should consider trading ANYBODY as long as they get comparable value. That includes Buxton and Sano. The real question is whether they'd receive that value in return. I tend to think the Twins would be more likely to get comparable value for Plouffe than they would Dozier because Dozier is an all-star second baseman when he's playing well, but has had real struggles in the second half of each of the past two seasons. 

 

I don't think any team would give up the prospects/players worthy of an all-star second baseman for Dozier. 

[ScottyB]

If you're thinking of trading Dozier, think out of the box - Plouffe to 2B.  With Polonco as a backup option.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If you're thinking of trading Dozier, think out of the box - Plouffe to 2B.  With Polonco as a backup option.

But then why wouldn't you just trade Plouffe?

 

The best case situation with Plouffe at second is he replicates Dozier's 2014/15. The worst case situation is he simply cannot handle defensive duties at second base.

 

Middle infielders aren't just plug and play. If you don't need a third baseman, trade your extra third baseman... Don't trade your second baseman and hope your third baseman can handle the position.

[SwainZag]

With Dozier you get production of a corner infielder at 2B.  Over 70 XBH and he is signed to a very team friendly deal as well.  Yes, he struck out too much and had a poor 2nd half, but that just isn't exactly replaceable....and not to mention he plays above average defensively.  I do think Dozier is out of position in the lineup at leadoff, but I don't see how you can hold that against his value.

[dxpavelka]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but YES, in a heartbeat.  The other factor here is that everybody on this thread is overlooking the obvious in house 2B replacement-a guy who hit .267 at the big league level in 2015 with 46 extra base hits and played more games at 2B in his minor league career than any other position-EDDIE.  He would be a better fit as a 2B than OF and would free up OF space for Kepler/AB Walker/Arcia or whatever random veteran TR brings in to fill the Torii role, OR Trevor Plouffe.

[Hrbowski]

Dozier for McCann? You have to be kidding me.