2016 outfield

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't get the desire to trade Rosario (yet).  You trade from surplus when you have something that can replace him, and I don't see that for Rosario in 2016 at least.  It could happen at some point, but Rosario earned that job and there isn't an inhouse replacement that is likely to outperform him as of right now.  Buxton and Kepler will likely eventually get there, but they aren't there now, and if the team wants to be competitive, then keeping Rosario in the OF is the right choice.  Moving Sano or Plouffe to the OF isn't a good idea.  I would think that watching baseball the Twins play ball the last few years should be evidence enough that you cannot just slot a guy into the OF and get decent defense, and poor OF defense makes a pretty big difference.  I do agree that some OF help may be needed, but I think it's in the team's best interest to give Arcia another shot, and they need to find room for Vargas too at some point.  Only way to do that is to trade Plouffe (who is redundant at this point) and not go out and get some big name OF.  I could definitely go for a Cuddyer/Nolasco swap as suggested here as long as Cuddyer understands that he won't necessarily be an every day guy, but that's more a bad contract/bad contract swaps where the bad contracts better address the current needs of the teams trading.

[mikelink45]

 

you mean when we added a FA DH like Chili Davis, a FA starter like Jack Morris, a 3b like Pags?

Or when they traded for a starter like Blyleven?

We have already done the adding - Hughes, Nolasco, Santana, one year of Torii Hunter, and of course Boyer, Jepsen, Cotts, and a few more in the bullpen, plus our two center fielders who began the season with us.  Its time to concentrate the other direction now. 

[kab21]

 

We have already done the adding - Hughes, Nolasco, Santana, one year of Torii Hunter, and of course Boyer, Jepsen, Cotts, and a few more in the bullpen, plus our two center fielders who began the season with us.  Its time to concentrate the other direction now. 

There will always be a few veterans added to fill out a roster.

 

Cuddyer would be ideal if he was happy with starting 60-80 games at OF/DH/1B as a bench player.  It is important to have the right veteran players around as the young players come up.  And you really don't want a top prospect like Kepler up as a 4th OF'er getting inconsistent playing time.  He should either be up and starting almost every day or in AAA.

 

I think the Twins could make a deal work if the Mets picked up 4-6M of the contract (reducing it to 6.5-8.5) and sent back a top 30ish prospect. 

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Cuddyer signed a two year deal and is owed $8.5m in 2016.

 

Sounds like a perfect carrot for the Twins to offer to take on when they trade for Matt Harvey.

[Vanimal46]

The Twins aren't going to sign Span to a multi-year deal and then trade him 4 months into his new contract when Buxton is ready to take over. That will not bode well for any future FA signings...

 

It's the same situation that they had with Willingham. Should have sold him off after the first season but didn't pull the trigger so they wouldn't ruffle any feathers.

[ashbury]

Sounds like a perfect carrot for the Twins to offer to take on when they trade for Matt Harvey.

The anti-Duensing!

[awinter]

 

  I could definitely go for a Cuddyer/Nolasco swap as suggested here

If TR can convince the Mets to do this, then he's a genius! I love this trade, but I don't see any benefit to the Mets. They dump one year of Cuddyer to take on multiple years of Nolasco, so this isn't a salary dump. This move makes their pitching staff worse, and it seems the Mets are more likely to trade away one of their talented pitchers because they don't have room for all of them. If I'm the Mets, I'd much trade Cuddyer straight up for a low level prospect or package Cuddy + cash for a little bit better of a low level prospect.

[Mike Sixel]

Can someone explain why adding a bad fielding OF that isn't hitting well is a good idea?

[James]

 

Can someone explain why adding a bad fielding OF that isn't hitting well is a good idea?

Because he's a fan favorite.  And that way everyone can vent about how TR is always trying to get the old group back together!

 

I don't understand the idea.  I love Cuddy.  I hope the Mets come back this year and he ends up with a WS ring.  I do not want him back on the Twins.  That shipped sailed a long time ago. 

 

My prediction is that we start the season with Rosario/Hicks/Arcia or FA for an outfield, with Buxton and Kepler in AAA gettiong every day at bats.  Buxton probably shows back up in the big leagues by May or June.  That FA will be someone not very noteworthy that most will complain about, but plays ok and is traded or outrighted once Buxton is up.  That probably means rolling with 5 OF to start the year, as they'll also have a prototypical 4th OF that can play all 3 positions/pinch run.  I could be way off base, but we'll see.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Buxton was clearly over matched at the plate last season, why does he NEED to be opening day CF?  His glove is obviously ready, but I see nothing bad in letting him hit some AAA pitching next season and not throwing him back into the fire. 

 

Because at some point your all-world prospects need to do it at the highest level.  There's nothing for Buxton to learn in Rochester that he can't learn better in Minnesota.  You also have to look at the fact that Buxton cut his k-rate every month and raised his OPS every month, despite having a terrible BABIP in Sep/Oct.  He was also perfectly acceptable against righties, OPS'ing .704 against them for the year, which is only 20 points behind league average for CF's.  If anything, let him sit against lefties, but it's time to see if Buxton is going to be an all-star, or just a starter.

[nicksaviking]

 

Can someone explain why adding a bad fielding OF that isn't hitting well is a good idea?

 

He can also play 1B, 2B and 3B.  Also pitcher.  And if push came to shove, probably SS and C, which is clearly an area of need.

 

Besides, he'd be brought in to mentor the young kids and then given another role within the organization when he's done playing. 

[kab21]

 

Can someone explain why adding a bad fielding OF that isn't hitting well is a good idea?

Because he is still a competent player.  That is who you want as a 4th OF'er provided you have a corner OF'er that can field CF (like Rosario, Hicks, Buxton or Kepler) for a couple of days if needed. 

 

Having Cuddyer allow the Twins to start Buxton and Kepler in AAA unless they dominate spring training.  He can start at the beginning of season or backup Arcia and when it is time for one of the prospects to move up then he can move into a sub role and be a legit PH off the bench.  I would prefer that to signing another Shafer or Robinson.

 

As far as the comment regarding Buxton having nothing to learn in AA/AAA that isn't true.  He has played a total of 73 games there and has missed a lot of games the last two seasons.  He has enough raw talent that he might be able to skip those levels but most likely he has plenty to learn in the minors.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Because at some point your all-world prospects need to do it at the highest level.  There's nothing for Buxton to learn in Rochester that he can't learn better in Minnesota.  You also have to look at the fact that Buxton cut his k-rate every month and raised his OPS every month, despite having a terrible BABIP in Sep/Oct.  He was also perfectly acceptable against righties, OPS'ing .704 against them for the year, which is only 20 points behind league average for CF's.  If anything, let him sit against lefties, but it's time to see if Buxton is going to be an all-star, or just a starter.

 

Buxton showed that he's not ready to do it at the highest level.  There's nothing wrong with giving him sometime in Rochester.  It's part of that development.  If he's figured it out, we'll all be clamoring for him in a month after he puts up a 300/400/500 line in Rochester.  In the mean time, there's no harm in making him earn it.  He didn't do that this year.

 

I fail to see how forcing him in the lineup will make him better.  I would think watching guys like Carlos Gomez flounder for years because it was too soon should be plenty of evidence as to why an AAA stint wouldn't be bad.  Heck, 2 years of Aaron Hicks is another good example, and while he's not Buxton as a prospect, I think we can all safely conclude at this point that there are advantages to letting guys develop in the minors.

[BrianTrottier]

 

The Twins need a proven OF that will:  hit, hit for power, play solid defense, and provide leadership--someone like Cespedes.  The savings from Hunter's contract and Pelfrey's contract will cover Cespedes deal.

 Arcia?  DH, PH, and emergency OF use only.  Hicks/Buxton?  Keep one, trade the other.  Be realistic, we're not looking at two  Willie Mays here.

 

I am astounded that people treat Hicks and Buxton as the same types of players. Buxton >>>>> Hicks.

[Kwak]

 

I am astounded that people treat Hicks and Buxton as the same types of players. Buxton >>>>> Hicks.

1) Not yet. 2) I said "keep one, trade the other".  3)  Twins are in need of a second (actually a second and a third) "big-power-hitter" type to complement Sano;  neither Hicks or Buxton are that guy--they are in the traditional CF type of player, which though rather valuable, but different.

[Steve Lein]

 

I am astounded that people treat Hicks and Buxton as the same types of players. Buxton >>>>> Hicks.

 

Except you have to take into account their current MLB performance when clamoring for Buxton in the bigs to start the year.

 

Hicks >>>>>>>>>> hitter than Buxton right now.

 

Buxton > better fielder than Hicks right now...

 

Potential is not the same thing as production.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Buxton showed that he's not ready to do it at the highest level.  There's nothing wrong with giving him sometime in Rochester.  It's part of that development.  If he's figured it out, we'll all be clamoring for him in a month after he puts up a 300/400/500 line in Rochester.  In the mean time, there's no harm in making him earn it.  He didn't do that this year.

 

I fail to see how forcing him in the lineup will make him better.  I would think watching guys like Carlos Gomez flounder for years because it was too soon should be plenty of evidence as to why an AAA stint wouldn't be bad.  Heck, 2 years of Aaron Hicks is another good example, and while he's not Buxton as a prospect, I think we can all safely conclude at this point that there are advantages to letting guys develop in the minors.

 

You can't prove you're ready to do it at the highest level until you do it at the highest level.  Let's say he starts in Rochester, slashes .350/.450/.650, gets called up, and puts up his same June stats, then what was the point?  Put him in the bigs, trust his talent and desire to get better, and believe that his month-over-month improvement last year is real, and not just a fluctuation.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Cuddyer for Nolasco. Done and done.

A magician for a disappearing act ...

[Reider]

 

The Twins aren't going to sign Span to a multi-year deal and then trade him 4 months into his new contract when Buxton is ready to take over. That will not bode well for any future FA signings...

 

It's the same situation that they had with Willingham. Should have sold him off after the first season but didn't pull the trigger so they wouldn't ruffle any feathers.

The funny part about this is that the Twins have already traded Span away. If he's willing to come back after already being traded away, then he already knows the risk he is taking (which would be the same with any team, the risk is always there) and obviously wouldn't have any hard feelings towards the Twins about being traded the first time.

 

Also, there's nothing saying that the Twins would have to trade Span away. They could trade another outfielder instead. Or depending on how long the contract is and how long it takes the young guys to develop (remember, the Twins only have 2 of 4 outfield spots filled for 2016), the Twins may not have to even consider trading an outfielder.

 

Reality is the Twins do in fact have a lead off hitter issue, which has existed ever since they traded Span away. They also just lost Torii Hunter to retirement, and they were also very close to making the playoffs. Denard Span could pretty much solve all of those problems (solid outfielder, solid lead off hitter, could be a good role model and mentor to the young guys, and could also help the Twins make a push for a playoff spot).

 

Of course things all lead back to what your goals are. If the Twins don't care about those things mentioned above, then they don't have to sign anyone. They can just go with the youth movement. However, if they want to take another step forward next year and make the playoffs, they are going to have to go out and get a few players in the off season.

 

 

[Major League Ready]

 

Because at some point your all-world prospects need to do it at the highest level.  There's nothing for Buxton to learn in Rochester that he can't learn better in Minnesota.  You also have to look at the fact that Buxton cut his k-rate every month and raised his OPS every month, despite having a terrible BABIP in Sep/Oct.  He was also perfectly acceptable against righties, OPS'ing .704 against them for the year, which is only 20 points behind league average for CF's.  If anything, let him sit against lefties, but it's time to see if Buxton is going to be an all-star, or just a starter.

If this were true, why would you ever send a prospect to AAA

[Mike Sixel]

He can also play 1B, 2B and 3B.  Also pitcher.  And if push came to shove, probably SS and C, which is clearly an area of need.

 

Besides, he'd be brought in to mentor the young kids and then given another role within the organization when he's done playing.

See, this time I think I got it......

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

If this were true, why would you ever send a prospect to AAA

 

Because not every prospect is Byron Buxton?

[DocBauer]

Michael Cuddyer is absolutely in my top 5 all time Twins players. I was pretty well devistated when he left. I wept for days! 

 

OKokokokokok....I exaggerate...somewhat. But in truth, he really is one of my favorite, top 5 all time. He might even be #1. And I would not be depressed were he brought back and could still play a little. I'd probably even be a little bit tickled. But the reality is he just doesn't fit here.

 

IMO...defense, talent, and the ability to play/perform at at least a "decent" level at the bottom of the order to begin the season, Buxton will be with the Twins from day one. Rosario will also be starting. Hicks has the option of starting, working as a sort of quasi-platoon with Arcia, (meaning there doesn't have to be set parameters), or even being a 4th OF should Arcia surprise and thrive. And before too long, Kepler will make his appearance as an OF/1B.

 

Even if Plouffe is traded, allowing Sano to play 3B full time, DH could still be Vargas or Arcia, Pinto as a darkhorse. There is also a different spare OF once Kepler arrives. 

 

This is before we even consider a veteran to fill the role. That is the one area where Cuddyer could have actual value. But other than that...assuming he were even available and wouldn't cost much via trade chips...he just doesn't fit.

[stringer bell]

 

Michael Cuddyer is absolutely in my top 5 all time Twins players. I was pretty well devistated when he left. I wept for days! 

 

OKokokokokok....I exaggerate...somewhat. But in truth, he really is one of my favorite, top 5 all time. He might even be #1. And I would not be depressed were he brought back and could still play a little. I'd probably even be a little bit tickled. But the reality is he just doesn't fit here.

 

IMO...defense, talent, and the ability to play/perform at at least a "decent" level at the bottom of the order to begin the season, Buxton will be with the Twins from day one. Rosario will also be starting. Hicks has the option of starting, working as a sort of quasi-platoon with Arcia, (meaning there doesn't have to be set parameters), or even being a 4th OF should Arcia surprise and thrive. And before too long, Kepler will make his appearance as an OF/1B.

 

Even if Plouffe is traded, allowing Sano to play 3B full time, DH could still be Vargas or Arcia, Pinto as a darkhorse. There is also a different spare OF once Kepler arrives. 

 

This is before we even consider a veteran to fill the role. That is the one area where Cuddyer could have actual value. But other than that...assuming he were even available and wouldn't cost much via trade chips...he just doesn't fit.

Disagree quite a bit with your take, Doc. Cuddyer has taken on a part-time role for the Mets, so he has experienced starting 1-2 times a week and coming off the bench to pinch hit. Further, as a right handed hitter who has always hit lefties well, he could be a platoon with Arcia or Vargas. He has played first base almost as much as Mauer and could give Joe days off against tough left handers. Injuries also happen and having a veteran player around for depth at four positions is a nice backup. The problem is Cuddyer's contract--he is due $12.5M next year and trading Nolasco and a prospect might even be doable, but Nolasco is guaranteed about the same money in 2017, while Cuddyer pact is up in 2016. I've never heard a teammate say a bad word about Cuddyer. He is a different type than Torii, but well-respected by both the teams he has played for and his teammates.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

I think they'll want a role-player veteran for the OF, someone who'd be credible starting regularly for a stretch (say, if Buxton and Kepler don't make the team out of spring training) but wouldn't be completely wasted as a part-timer or reserve.

 

Span is too deserving of a full-time starting role to fit there, but there seem to be a lot of veteran free agent outfielders who roughly fit the profile. Gerardo Parra, Matt Joyce, Rajai Davis, Will Venable, Steve Pearce? Alex Rios if the Royals don't bring him back? Nori Aoki if the Giants don't exercise his option? There's also the DFAed Domonic Brown, for a disappointing-ex-top-prospect angle, though maybe that's not the mojo the Twins want around.

[DocBauer]

Disagree quite a bit with your take, Doc. Cuddyer has taken on a part-time role for the Mets, so he has experienced starting 1-2 times a week and coming off the bench to pinch hit. Further, as a right handed hitter who has always hit lefties well, he could be a platoon with Arcia or Vargas. He has played first base almost as much as Mauer and could give Joe days off against tough left handers. Injuries also happen and having a veteran player around for depth at four positions is a nice backup. The problem is Cuddyer's contract--he is due $12.5M next year and trading Nolasco and a prospect might even be doable, but Nolasco is guaranteed about the same money in 2017, while Cuddyer pact is up in 2016. I've never heard a teammate say a bad word about Cuddyer. He is a different type than Torii, but well-respected by both the teams he has played for and his teammates.

An excellent rebuttle. One that I can't dismiss. Actually sounds like something I would say. Lol But let me clarify my comments somewhat, using some a couple points you have made here.

 

In my personal opinion, probably by mid-season it is very likely we see a roster of Suzuki and whoever at catcher, Sano, Escobar, Dozier, Santana, Nunez and Mauer in the infield with Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, Arcia and Kepler in the OF. Even with Plouffe gone that's a full 13 man roster.

 

As you state, we're not going to get him for Nolasco, and he's going to earn in excess of $12M for a role player. I'm not saying he couldn't help. He could, in exactly the ways you stated. But contract and roster crunch, no matter how much I love Cuddy, he just doesn't fit.

[kab21]

 

You can't prove you're ready to do it at the highest level until you do it at the highest level.  Let's say he starts in Rochester, slashes .350/.450/.650, gets called up, and puts up his same June stats, then what was the point?  Put him in the bigs, trust his talent and desire to get better, and believe that his month-over-month improvement last year is real, and not just a fluctuation.

It's possible that he can essentially skip AA/AAA (only 73 games) because of his immense raw talent but it is a stretch to say that he has nothing to learn at the level.  He was overmatched his first time up in the majors even if you look at his month over month improvement. 

[kab21]

 

 

An excellent rebuttle. One that I can't dismiss. Actually sounds like something I would say. Lol But let me clarify my comments somewhat, using some a couple points you have made here.

In my personal opinion, probably by mid-season it is very likely we see a roster of Suzuki and whoever at catcher, Sano, Escobar, Dozier, Santana, Nunez and Mauer in the infield with Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, Arcia and Kepler in the OF. Even with Plouffe gone that's a full 13 man roster.

As you state, we're not going to get him for Nolasco, and he's going to earn in excess of $12M for a role player. I'm not saying he couldn't help. He could, in exactly the ways you stated. But contract and roster crunch, no matter how much I love Cuddy, he just doesn't fit.

There is no reason that the Mets can't include as much cash as they want in a trade.  If they include 6M then it is very reasonable.  We don't know if the Mets want to get rid of Cuddyer though.

 

I would be surprised if all 5 of those OF'ers are successful and healthy at the same time next year.  You certainly don't call a prospect like Kepler up until there is a starting role for him (or it is late August). 

[jsteve96]

this is how i line up OF to start season; Rosario, Hicks, Arcia.. Possibly Hayward in RF if Twins pay up. id say Arcia and hicks will have short leashes with Buxton and Kepler on the verge and don't forget about Adam Walker soon.. Sano also could play RF if they had to.