Rookie manager decisions in Thursday's game

[Geneb]

The Thursday game is on Moliter. We go into extras w/o Sano, Trever or Rosiaro and with the pitcher hitting. He should have used Robinson to run for Sano or left Trever in the game. We're spotting the Tigers too much.

[DaveW]

You could write a 1,000 page novel on how much molitor has messed up this year. This would be page 984, 16 pages tonight dedicated to tonight's debacle.

[Kwak]

 

You could write a 1,000 page novel on how much molitor has messed up this year. This would be page 984, 16 pages tonight dedicated to tonight's debacle.

...and yet he is still better than Gardenhire.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

The Thursday game is on Moliter. We go into extras w/o Sano, Trever or Rosiaro and with the pitcher hitting. He should have used Robinson to run for Sano or left Trever in the game. We're spotting the Tigers too much.

 

I can sort of defend using a pinch runner for Sano in the 9th, but yeah, sometimes tie games go to extra innings!

 

Who'da thunk it?

 

Hard one to stomach tonight.

[DaveW]

...and yet he is still better than Gardenhire.

He isn't even close to being as good as Gardy was. Gardy would have this team 2-3 games

Up in the wild card race.

[TheLeviathan]

He isn't even close to being as good as Gardy was. Gardy would have this team 2-3 games

Up in the wild card race.

Or in Gardy terms: "comfortable, about to get swept position"

[Shane Wahl]

Robinson running for Plouffe was a mistake. Using Duensing there was a mistake. I am not sure about the other stuff. That Mauer strikeout was brutal.

[big dog]

Pinch-failing Danny Santana for anyone is a mistake, too.  Put him in to pinch-run, or as an emergency outfielder.  That's it.

 

This team is better when Dozier gets at least one hit a series, too.  I don't blame the manager for that.

[mikelink45]

Sano can't run - that's the reality.  Molitor using Duensing in the end was not good, but the bullpen has only so many arms and despite the fact that I think Duensing should have been gone a long time ago he is the veteran arm and without Perkins he has to be used.  If we blame anyone - look at Jepsen.   We should not have gone extra innings. 

[Mike Sixel]

Santana pinch hitting? I can't see how anyone defends that.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

 

I can sort of defend using a pinch runner for Sano in the 9th, but yeah, sometimes tie games go to extra innings!

 

Who'da thunk it?

 

Hard one to stomach tonight.

 

Yeah, they tend to go into extra innings when you sacrifice with a man on second and no outs. Hey, then they walk a hot hitter (Rosario) to face a defensive sub for his first at-bat (Suzuki). Huh, I didn't know they could do that.

 

Molitar bombed that game. I'm sitting there thinking, you know what would be awesome and maybe get Buxton's confidence going. If Molitar shows he has confidence in him and let's him swing away in the 9th. Imagine if he drives in the winning run in a big-time game with playoff potential.

 

But hey, had to get Robinson over to third, right. I mean, it's not like he was a PR brought in for speed in case we needed him to score from second.

[DaveW]

Yeah, I thought the exact same thing about the buxton at bat. Molitor loves to overthink things way too much and thus far it has burned him more than it has worked out.

[Dantes929]

 

You could write a 1,000 page novel on how much molitor has messed up this year. This would be page 984, 16 pages tonight dedicated to tonight's debacle.

I have read these and other boards enough to know it would be about 70 pages much like every other manager's would be a page for every loss..    No one questions the moves when Jepsen has a clean inning or Mauer (or Santana or whoever) gets a game winning base hit. 

[Mike Sixel]

When did Santana play well? I missed that part this year.

[Dantes929]

 

Yeah, they tend to go into extra innings when you sacrifice with a man on second and no outs. Hey, then they walk a hot hitter (Rosario) to face a defensive sub for his first at-bat (Suzuki). Huh, I didn't know they could do that.

 

Molitar bombed that game. I'm sitting there thinking, you know what would be awesome and maybe get Buxton's confidence going. If Molitar shows he has confidence in him and let's him swing away in the 9th. Imagine if he drives in the winning run in a big-time game with playoff potential.

 

But hey, had to get Robinson over to third, right. I mean, it's not like he was a PR brought in for speed in case we needed him to score from second.

Sacrifice was not done in order to score Robinson on a base hit but on a wild pitch, infield grounder or mainly a sacrifice fly.   Again if any of these things happen no one comments on what a mistake it was to have Buxton bunt.   On the other hand if Buxton swings away and makes an out without advancing the runner and the next guy hits a deep fly ball I promise there would be posts saying what a lousy move it was not to have Buxton bunt.   

My general rule of thumb is to respect a post criticizing a move that the poster thinks was dumb even though it worked out or praising a move that the poster thinks was smart but didn't work out.    Needless to say I don't read a whole lot of either of those.

[Seth Stohs]

I don't get Molitor's Santana thing, but other than that... a manager makes so many decisions in a game. I think we know that he is smart and he has all the information in front of him, and he knows it. But I never have any problem with a manager going with his gut. Can't always go by the book.

 

I thought it was a bad matchup with Duensing, but there weren't a lot of options, so hard to know. Tonkin hasn't exactly been good either. 

 

I don't get all the pinch-running, but I didn't have a huge issue with the pinch running when he did. You have to go for the win in the 8th and 9th. 

 

It's way too easy to be a morning-after (or even in-game) manager, and it's good for discussion. But it's up to the players. 

 

Mistakes were made by the players. Jepsen was due for a blown save. Hicks had a couple of mistakes. People don't always get hits, and errors get made. I don't expect to agree with everything a manager does, but second-guessing everything makes little sense either.

[Secondary User]

 

...and yet he is still better than Gardenhire.

 

From an actual game strategy stand point, is he?  Say what you will for the effect of a manager on player development, motivation and what not, but if you look at the tangible aspects (strategic decision making), is he really any good?

 

He's a rookie manager to the extreme having no managerial experience, and the team is ahead of schedule anyway, so I'm not going to call for heads to roll, but it has to be disconcerting to see some poor decision making

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

He isn't even close to being as good as Gardy was. Gardy would have this team 2-3 games
Up in the wild card race.

I don't disagree that Gardy WAS a better manager than Molly is today, but year 3 of the rebuild had him defeated. Gardy wouldn't have had this team in a position to compete. He had a bad case of the Screwits when he got canned. It's too bad, he will make a very good manager again for the Tigers or whoever hires him.

[Squirrel]

Moderator Note: This is not a Gardy vs Molitor debate so don't go there, please. Discuss last night's in-game decisions, that's what this thread topic is.

[bizaff]

My first thought when Mauer came up in the 10th was to bunt - think that's a mistake?

 

I found this: http://www.tangotiger.net/welist.html which shows it only gives you about 2% better chance to win.  But Mauer RISP, gut, blah blah.

[Old Twins Cap]

I was at the game, till 12:30 a.m. 

 

I looked up in the 9th or 10th inning at the Twins box score on the jumbotron, they had no hits on the board.  Every player who had a hit was out of the game.  That looked really funny, at the time.

 

Plouffe is continuing to look very sluggish.  Sure he got a key hit, but everything about his body language says, "I'm beat tired".  No reason he did not nail runner going to second in the ninth on Hicks' overthrow.  Had him dead to rights.

 

Mauer.  If that's your superstar, if that's the guy who will carry you, the Twins are in real trouble.

 

They lost to a last place team, and Detroit was without Cabrera, using rookie and cast-off pitchers, and the Twins managed to look listless doing it.  Not a happy occasion.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sacrifice was not done in order to score Robinson on a base hit but on a wild pitch, infield grounder or mainly a sacrifice fly. 

In the previous at-bat, Nunez advanced to second on a passed ball from the same pitcher, no sacrifice required.

 

Why not let Buxton see a few pitches to give Rondon a chance for another wild pitch, without giving up an out right away?  (Plus, Buxton hasn't look all that great bunting, so despite his speed, his chances of reaching via bunt are probably pretty low. He probably has a greater chance of forcing an error if he swings away, and given his recent reduction in K's, he may even have a better chance of advancing the runner that way, especially if Detroit has to play in for the bunt.)

 

Why wasn't Robinson used to pinch-run for Sano, instead of using our last backup 3B option with Plouffe due up representing the winning run (in other words, strong pinch run candidate)?

 

And why the heck was Rosario removed from the game when we lost the DH?  After we already lost Sano, Plouffe, and Hunter -- why not keep the guy who's 2-for-3 with an IBB, and sub out Robinson, even if his spot is due up a little sooner?

 

Why is Aaron Thompson on the 40-man roster sitting at home waiting for his pink slip, while we're running out of position players?  Even having Doug Bernier on the bench last night lets us pinch run for Plouffe and not lose Rosario or the DH spot in general.  (Of course, Danny Santana could have still been available if he wasn't our primary pinch hitter....)

[Kwak]

The Twins are permitted to use their entire 40-man roster in September--why aren't there more of them here?  That decision is beyond Molitor's level, he can only use those "available".  As far as the decision to use Duensing?  True he has failed too frequently--but then so have the "other available options".  Some pitchers "weren't available"--and I believe that that decision came from above Molitor.

 

This entire discussion, nay the entire thread, emanate from the pattern 1) Twins Lose a game  2) Dave goes on a witch hunt  (Ryan is cheap/foolish, Molitor is stupid/inexperienced, and/or (player) is no good/used incorrectly).  However, there is never a corresponding thread when the Twins Win despite the decisions of (Ryan, Molitor, and the use/misuse of no good players.  Yes, sometimes the Twins win despite themselves.

[Dr. Evil]

We don't get to see the behind the scenes stuff like Molitor does. This guy may be fighting a fever or that guy is run down or the other guy had a great batting practice and appears to be really energized today....etc..... I like that Molitor sometimes doesn't go by the book. By the book is a safe place for a manager. He is willing to include what he is seeing on a day to day basis as well as his baseball sense. I like that about the guy and I think he brings a lot out of his players. Optimism being one of them.

[KGB]

 

We don't get to see the behind the scenes stuff like Molitor does. This guy may be fighting a fever or that guy is run down or the other guy had a great batting practice and appears to be really energized today....etc..... I like that Molitor sometimes doesn't go by the book. By the book is a safe place for a manager. He is willing to include what he is seeing on a day to day basis as well as his baseball sense. I like that about the guy and I think he brings a lot out of his players. Optimism being one of them.

We have a roster full of players who are preforming worst than last year but a team that is winning a lot more games.  There has to be something positive happening within the locker room and coaching staff.

[SwainZag]

I have no problem with the pinch running in the 9th.  They were playing to win with no outs.  Sano has had recent hammy trouble and Trevor runs like he is pulling a trailer.  Losing their bat if the game goes to extras isn't ideal, but you gotta play to win in that situation.

[Loosey]

I have disagreed with the pinch running decisions most of the season.  Especially the times he has done it in tie games with 2 outs.  That being said, last night I agreed with Nunez for Sano with no outs. Even Trevor with no outs made sense.

 

They just couldn't hit a fly ball until there were 2 outs.

[DaveW]

 

I have no problem with the pinch running in the 9th.  They were playing to win with no outs.  Sano has had recent hammy trouble and Trevor runs like he is pulling a trailer.  Losing their bat if the game goes to extras isn't ideal, but you gotta play to win in that situation.

You have to PR Sano since he is the tying run in that situation. I'm more concerned with the Buxton bunt and bringing in Duensing.

[SweetOne69]

Could somebody fix the title of this thread, last night was Wednesday?

[KGB]

 

Could somebody fix the title of this thread, last night was Wednesday?

No need too, if we lose tonight, I sure we'll have the same topic tomorrow