Sano & Buxton

[Ncgo4]

We are now 19 games into the season and our two superstars-to-be are having frightfully dismal starts to the season. I'm sure it's too early to panic, but here's where I'm at a loss. I'm a fan not a baseball person. So I'll ask a question of the baseball people. Given that our dynamic duo has been out a whole year, do we just have patience and wait or is there something the coaching staff should be or maybe is already doing?

 

Any input is really appreciated.

[gbg]

Way too early to panic. Only 18 games for Buxton and 17 for Sano. They're shaking off a ton of rust, as you allude to.

 

I'm sure the coaching staff down there are playing VERY close attention to these two young studs.

[DocBauer]

Patience.

 

Despite all of the amazingly difficult things there are to do, learn, overcome and accomplish in all of sports, I firmly believe that the most difficult thing to do is still to consistently hit a round baseball with a round bat that is not only coming at you somewhere between 70 and 100 mph, but is bending, twisting, diving and generally moving around.

 

Sano missed everything but a couple days of ST. Now he has to find his groove and timing. Buxton obviously played more, but also missed significant time. AND, there is the self imposed pressure of trying to be great, and trying to be so right away.

 

Personally, Ive felt that anyone expecting either or both up by mid season were dreaming. I would be fine if both struggled the entire first half, but played good defense, took some walks, and just kept working toward a strong second half.

[Seth Stohs]

Buxton's last 5 games - 6-18 (.333) with five walks. Even some of his outs have been loud. 

[Seth Stohs]

He has 7 walks and 1 strikeout in his last 8 games.

[stringer bell]

I just posted something about Buxton and Sano.   I messed up the math and said Buxton was 6-15, 6-18 was right.  I think it is important that he is taking walks and not striking out.  It looks like it will be a while before Sano dominates.

[SydneyTwinsFan]

Yep, Buxton's last 5 games have seen .333/.478/.500 with 3 SB and 5/1 BB/K.  Hoping that represents a corner turned. 

Confident Sano won't be far behind.  As others have said, there's plenty of rust for these two to shake off

[gunnarthor]

Lots of patience required.  Remember, Sano missed all of last year and is still only 22.  He's a year and half younger than Kris Bryant.  He could spend the whole year in AA and still be ahead of the curve.

 

But I think both he and Buxton will figure things out sooner rather then later.  He's still taking walks and isn't striking out that much (for a slugger who missed a year).  They both are huge talents and usually talent wins out. 

[cmb0252]

A mixture between rust and small sample size. Both of them will figure it out.

[Hrbowski]

They will get going. Both are coming of lost seasons; we have a lot of reasons to believe that they are going to get going.

 

1. Proven track record

2. Unbelievable talent

3. They are finally healthy

 

I could name more, but I'm gonna go watch that NFL thing.

[TheLeviathan]

One of the biggest reasons to doubt either of these guys are up before the All-star game was the need to knock off a LOT of rust.  I'm not worried about their numbers, I don't expect guys that missed that much time to be firing on all cylinders this quickly.

[drivlikejehu]

I'm slightly worried about Sano. He hit under .240 in AA in 2013... to put it another way, he's only been a complete offensive player at the advanced-A level and below. His value is all tied up in his bat, and so the longer he struggles to hit, the more question there is of whether he will reach his potential.

 

I understand he's coming off injury, and that may have even been an issue holding him back before it was discovered, and that's he's still young, and that you can't teach his kind of power, etc. But most top MLB hitters crushed AA, often at a young age.

[bulldozier14]

 

I'm slightly worried about Sano. He hit under .240 in AA in 2013... to put it another way, he's only been a complete offensive player at the advanced-A level and below. His value is all tied up in his bat, and so the longer he struggles to hit, the more question there is of whether he will reach his potential.

 

I understand he's coming off injury, and that may have even been an issue holding him back before it was discovered, and that's he's still young, and that you can't teach his kind of power, etc. But most top MLB hitters crushed AA, often at a young age.

Sano will hit bombs. He has close to 80 power- not only at A+, but among all baseball players. He hit another one tonight. He has also shown an ability to draw walks, even at AA. When his average was .240 in 2013, his OBP was .344. Give him some time...he will be able to hit home runs and hopefully get on base enough to be a solid player, if not a star. 

[Physics Guy]

 

I'm slightly worried about Sano. He hit under .240 in AA in 2013... to put it another way, he's only been a complete offensive player at the advanced-A level and below. His value is all tied up in his bat, and so the longer he struggles to hit, the more question there is of whether he will reach his potential.

 

I understand he's coming off injury, and that may have even been an issue holding him back before it was discovered, and that's he's still young, and that you can't teach his kind of power, etc. But most top MLB hitters crushed AA, often at a young age.

Bulldozier already hit on most of what I was going to say.    .240 is fine when you OPS .915.    My guess is that he was pitched around plenty and took walks when pitchers were nibbling.    I suspect he will be fine.    I worry less about the bat as I do whether he will be able to play 3B.

[mudcat14]

Interestingly, only 7 of their combined AB's have come against lefties. They are 3-7, with a triple & HR.

 

Overall, I think they have just been too eager. Buxton is showing more patience as of late. Sano will too.

[Rosterman]

Sano is still young. Think Trevor Plouffe. He will figure it out. He may not be as great as we want him to be, but he should supply power. Will he listen. Will he be moved to the outfield. I don't think he will be another Aaron Hicks, who also may surprise us as he sees his major league career quickly slipping away and start to drive and thrive.

 

The pressure on Buxton has to be tremendous. Some can go with it. Others...well...

[shs_59]

As The Brilliant Seth Stohs states above.

 

Some of the outs for both players have been "loud" outs.  I"m not worried at all.

 

The Rust had to be shaken off and , even though maybe some of us were "fooled" by spring training into thinking those 2 guys were a little more "ready to go" than they actually really were. (is apparent)

 

Now , if these 2 are doing much of the same another 2 months from now. 

 

Then ill be worried.

 

But if they're both still in AA 2 months from now , i wouldn't be surprised if Sano's more normal line went from

 

0-4, 2 K's or 1-3 , HR , 1 K , 1 BB to something like:

 

2-4, 2B , BB , K

 

and for Buxton

 

he's already coming out of it.

 

Essentially the only thing i'm going to keep an eye on is the amount of K's both players (particulary Sano) are racking up.

 

Hopefully they both Begin to K a little less.

 

I think they are both doing a Great job currently!.

(Remember, AA is a big Jump From High A )

 

which Buxton and mostly Sano too are both doing for the 1st time.

 

 

[drivlikejehu]

Hitting .240 in AA is much different than doing so in the bigs. If Sano is too vulnerable, MLB pitchers will eat him alive regardless of his raw power.

[tobi0040]

It should be noted, that as horrible as Sano's average is.....he has 4 HR and 12 BB's in 17 games. A pace of 38 HR, 114 BB over 162 games.  And his OPS of .684 isn't too bad for missing the entire previous season and shaking off the rust.

 

Buxton, even though he has not been on base a ton is on pace for 63 SB.

 

Goes to show how talented these guys are.

[gil4]

 

They both are huge talents and usually talent wins out. 

 

That's especially true with hitters.  With pitchers, it's usually health (or lack thereof) that wins out.  if anyone would like to worry about a prospect, Kohl Stewart might be a better choice.

[Old Twins Cap]

What about errors?  Haven't seen or heard much about their defense.  Prolly a good thing, right?

[mikelink45]

I worry about the entire progression of minor league players in the Twins system.   I watch the cubs, astros, etc get their players up and in the bigs and they seem to have a more major league ready transition.  Think of Hicks, Arcia, Vargas...  What is it with the Twins system that make slow progression more common that quick impact in the big leagues?

 

[adorduan]

Sano has been iffy in the field so far.

[gunnarthor]

 

I worry about the entire progression of minor league players in the Twins system.   I watch the cubs, astros, etc get their players up and in the bigs and they seem to have a more major league ready transition.  Think of Hicks, Arcia, Vargas...  What is it with the Twins system that make slow progression more common that quick impact in the big leagues?

Not sure any of that is true, most rookies struggle.  Harper and Machedo, for instance, are the exceptions.  Cubs fans have already given up on Javier Baez and Jon Singleton is struggling back in AAA.  And do you see how dominating Brad Peacock, Matt Dominguez and Jonathan Villar are?  No? Those are top 100 prospects out of the Astros systems that have failed (although Peacock is still with the org).  Mike Olt was a top 25 prospect and the centerpiece of the Garza trade for the Cubs.  Now he's a bench player.

 

 

[kab21]

 

Sano is still young. Think Trevor Plouffe. He will figure it out. He may not be as great as we want him to be, but he should supply power. Will he listen. Will he be moved to the outfield. I don't think he will be another Aaron Hicks, who also may surprise us as he sees his major league career quickly slipping away and start to drive and thrive.

 

The pressure on Buxton has to be tremendous. Some can go with it. Others...well...

even this is a knee jerk reaction based on <1 month of play after 1 year off.

[Sam Morley]

I don't think that Sano has ever been pitched to in the minors. I bet he offers at a lot of pitches that are less than ideal. This seems to show up in his high K totals. When a hitter both Ks and walks a lot, something weird is going on. For the first few weeks of the season he was hitting in front of Dalton Hicks in the lineup, and Hicks was crushing. I kept expecting Sano's average to start going up, but apparently even Dalton Hicks batting 400 isn't enough to protect Sano. Now that the lineup has shuffled, and Sano is down in the lineup, we might see a change with his stats, but we've already seen a dip in production from Hicks. In Parker's article on Kennys Vargas' struggles, he mentions hitters' progression in the major leagues, and pitchers' adjustments. They start out challenging hitters with fastballs in the four spot. When a hitter proves he can handle that, there's an adjustment, and the young hitter has to start from square one. I bet if Sano was in the bigs right now, his average would be way higher. I bet, at least for a while, he'd hit 300, because pitchers would actually be challenging him. I don't think that we will really see how good he is until he gets to the big leagues. He's not even getting a chance to really play in the minors. I also agree with other statements that there is some rust after a year off, but I think that's less of a factor than him trying to deal with being pitched around in every single at bat. I haven't seen any Chattanooga games yet though, so maybe I'm wrong.

[tobi0040]

 

I don't think that Sano has ever been pitched to in the minors. I bet he offers at a lot of pitches that are less than ideal. This seems to show up in his high K totals. When a hitter both Ks and walks a lot, something weird is going on. For the first few weeks of the season he was hitting in front of Dalton Hicks in the lineup, and Hicks was crushing. I kept expecting Sano's average to start going up, but apparently even Dalton Hicks batting 400 isn't enough to protect Sano. Now that the lineup has shuffled, and Sano is down in the lineup, we might see a change with his stats, but we've already seen a dip in production from Hicks. In Parker's article on Kennys Vargas' struggles, he mentions hitters' progression in the major leagues, and pitchers' adjustments. They start out challenging hitters with fastballs in the four spot. When a hitter proves he can handle that, there's an adjustment, and the young hitter has to start from square one. I bet if Sano was in the bigs right now, his average would be way higher. I bet, at least for a while, he'd hit 300, because pitchers would actually be challenging him. I don't think that we will really see how good he is until he gets to the big leagues. He's not even getting a chance to really play in the minors. I also agree with other statements that there is some rust after a year off, but I think that's less of a factor than him trying to deal with being pitched around in every single at bat. I haven't seen any Chattanooga games yet though, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

I don't think the K's and BB's are that weird.  It tells me that he is not going to be a Cabrera type player.  He will profile more like Adam Dunn. He has a good eye at the plate, but when he offers he really goes for it.  What you see a lot of are K's, 2B's, and HR's.

 

[gil4]

 

What about errors?  Haven't seen or heard much about their defense.  Prolly a good thing, right?

 

There's a big error in the third sentence - p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y.   </GrammarNazi>

 

[Ncgo4]

Well, clearly Buxton is reading this forum. All you analysts talking about patience (by me and by Buxton at the plate) has proven prophetic. .455 since my post, including doubles, triples and SB's, so you fine people have clearly figured this out.

 

Crazy numbers, and encouraging for a major league team that is showing just enough to make minor league talent seem even more important for the near future.

[Vanimal46]

Thank god that Buxton has started tearing the cover off the ball lately. That's very encouraging to see. Sano however.... is a struggle bus. Any concerns from anyone else he could be the next Adam Dunn?