The Twins Don't Need a Full Rebuild. They Need a Direction.

[NYCTK]

21 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

What was the direction they set, they 6 players on expiring contracts which is typical for the Twins and they traded three relievers.  Falvey had a history of sending away relievers before their contract year and did so again with Jax and Duran.  He felt he could build a bullpen on the fly.

And even after they faltered in August, we saw no younger guys come up to see what they could do.  

I don't understand this narrative of he was starting something, look at his history, he wouldn't call up younger players unless he had to instead opting to sign one year contracts on vets who had little or no upside.

 

How many trade deadlines did Falvey trade away 11 players? 

You can try to act as if it wasn't a clear signal of a rebuild, but you don't actually believe that. 

[HarmonK03]

4 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

How many trade deadlines did Falvey trade away 11 players? 

You can try to act as if it wasn't a clear signal of a rebuild, but you don't actually believe that. 

Which of the players on expiring contracts were they going to bring back.  Duran and Jax followed the pattern of Pressley, Rogers and other relievers.  The only trade that didn't follow the pattern was Varland.  And when did Falvey in 10 years ever rely on young players unless forced to.

So I am looking history and trends and I will believe what that tells me.

You can look at the same trends and decide something else, that is up to you, but please don't tell me what I believe.

[HeresWaldo]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

I'm a little sorry you invested the time to construct this argument, because it has nothing to with the point I was making.  Sometimes this site requires an extreme amount of self-discipline to avoid going down a series of rabbit holes, and often that is not my strong suit but right now I'm going to try.  

I gave you a baker's dozen, not a couple, of good major league starts.  You have stopped defending that particularly bad take, so I feel like I accomplished what I set out to do.  

 

You and I are defining "good" differently, and that's fine. I can absolutely see why if you believe he's had 13 good starts you'd take issue with my stance. I hope similarly you can see why a sabermetrically-minded person like myself who sees a total of four good starts would view things differently. 

[Linus]

The title of the post is apt. Many mistakes have been made by the FO but ownership, and their inability to pick a lane and stick to it, are arguably a bigger problem. Must be frustrating to work for an organization that has a new long term plan every year. 

[ashbury]

39 minutes ago, HeresWaldo said:

You and I are defining "good" differently, and that's fine. I can absolutely see why if you believe he's had 13 good starts you'd take issue with my stance. I hope similarly you can see why a sabermetrically-minded person like myself who sees a total of four good starts would view things differently. 

At least you're up to four now.  If you still see 18 "terrible" starts as you originally stated, then we two sabermetrically-minded people are going to have a difficult time communicating.

This is very much a tangent to the thread's purpose so I don't plan to pursue this further.

[jkcarew]

While there may be a path to productive alternatives that DON’T include a full rebuild…a full rebuild would still be more of a “direction” than they’ve been able to muster up in recent years. Shooting for maintaining indefinite mediocrity is not a direction. It’s standing in one place and spinning.

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I wonder if Tom P realizes that him pivoting away from the rebuild already in progress only prolonged the situation? Probably not, since that requires some level of baseball knowledge and none of the younger Pohlads besides Joe seems to have that.

It can't be overstated how much the Pohlads have knee capped this organization since the end of 2023. I remember through the GM meetings in December, Falvey said he still didn't have a budget to work with. Because the Pohlads were too busy trying to boot Joe out of the picture. 

They've been diverse in their knee-cappings too.   Professional screw-ups.

Doing well and generating buzz?  Slash payroll!!!

Doing poorly and announce you're selling the team?  Psych!!!  We're keeping it you sorry suckers!!!

A solidly below .500 team with every regression alarm blaring and several primo assets you could sell in a seller's market?  Buy baby buy!

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

They've been diverse in their knee-cappings too.   Professional screw-ups.

Doing well and generating buzz?  Slash payroll!!!

Doing poorly and announce you're selling the team?  Psych!!!  We're keeping it you sorry suckers!!!

A solidly below .500 team with every regression alarm blaring and several primo assets you could sell in a seller's market?  Buy baby buy!

The incredible thing is there are people on this website that believe Tom P is different than the other 3 Pohlads we’ve dealt with over the last 40 years. Tom Pohlad handing a couple of $20 bills to Trevor Plouffe one night, the equivalent of throwing pennies at someone for Tom, won people over. 

[DocBauer]

I have a lot of love for some things Falvey has done, even though I have disagreements with some of his moves. His lieutenant was Zole. I like a few things he has done when he took over the BIG CHAIR. But I also dislike a lot of the roster moves he's been in control of. Does he get credit for some changes on the fly for the roster and a decent trade deadline? Or is he also responsible for some very questionable roster moves, especially late in the season?  

I'm in favor of a new voice.  

The problem I have with a "new voice" is I'm wondering if the organization hasn't been on that course the last couple of seasons.

Again, I'm really frustrated for roster construction the past few seasons that really disappointed me. But how much is that the FO to blame vs ownership? What might Falvey have done post 2023 if his legs weren't cut out beneath him. 

And Zole is suddenly the problem? Maybe he is. He might have done OK in the trade deadline, but I've also seen roster mistakes that make NO SENSE. 

II'm OK with a new voice as I haven't always agreed with the Falvey lead FO, or Zole behind. But I don't think they've been terrible. I just think they didn't always embrace the talent available. BUT, they have ALSO been in charge of changes currently taking place. 

 

[ashbury]

7 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The incredible thing is there are people on this website that believe Tom P is different than the other 3 Pohlads we’ve dealt with over the last 40 years. 

It's Pohlads all the way down.

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, ashbury said:

It's Pohlads all the way down.

I am envious of the Angels who finally escaped Arte Moreno… Hopefully we can rejoice in a year or 2 after the new CBA is in place 

[jkcarew]

22 hours ago, bean5302 said:

My point is Tom Pohlad has his own responsibilities, but choosing which players are on the roster isn't one of them unless his direct comments in regard to making roster decisions are to be ignored.

Pohlad may not have provided an expansive budget the moment he walked into the job; however, the front office is free to use that budget any way they see fit. While Tom Pohlad may have set the expectation the team would compete, that did not preclude trading Ryan and or Lopez if the front office could justify the moves through free agent signings and trading for other assets.

Except that the very first thing Tom did was to fire the previous GM who had just begun an obvious rebuild. Followed up by a deliberate, highly visible campaign tour promising a commitment to “winning”.

I don’t for a second believe Zoll had anywhere close to the autonomy you insinuate here. Conceivably, someday. Currently, no way.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

The incredible thing is there are people on this website that believe Tom P is different than the other 3 Pohlads we’ve dealt with over the last 40 years. Tom Pohlad handing a couple of $20 bills to Trevor Plouffe one night, the equivalent of throwing pennies at someone for Tom, won people over. 

The post-deadline articles were so very gross.

[Vanimal46]

3 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Except that the very first thing Tom did was to fire the previous GM who had just begun an obvious rebuild. Followed up by a deliberate, highly visible campaign tour promising a commitment to “winning”.

I don’t for a second believe Zoll had anywhere close to the autonomy you insinuate here. Conceivably, someday. Currently, no way.

Zoll is a yes man 100% 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, jkcarew said:

Except that the very first thing Tom did was to fire the previous GM who had just begun an obvious rebuild. Followed up by a deliberate, highly visible campaign tour promising a commitment to “winning”.

I don’t for a second believe Zoll had anywhere close to the autonomy you insinuate here. Conceivably, someday. Currently, no way.

This brings up something I've been saying for awhile (and fought upstream abput with many posters here): I don't think Falvey had advanced notice on the payroll slash or the "we're going to win!" ownership changeups.  I think he added Correa under the notion he had payroll manueverability and had it abruptly changed.  This offseason he resigned rather than deal with it again.

[jkcarew]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

This brings up something I've been saying for awhile (and fought upstream abput with many posters here): I don't think Falvey had advanced notice on the payroll slash or the "we're going to win!" ownership changeups.  I think he added Correa under the notion he had payroll manueverability and had it abruptly changed.  This offseason he resigned rather than deal with it again.

Reasonable take, IMO.

[soyouresayingtheresachance]

It starts with trading/releasing/non-tendering Larnach, Lewis, and Caratini. 

None of them are the answer or worth a roster spot on this team. Period. 

ERod, Buxton, Jenkins, & Keaschall should be our OFers & DH. All 4 can rotate between the field and DH. 

Lee is at 3B. Culpepper is at SS. 

Clemens can fill the Super Utility role again or get a starting spot at 2B. IMO Clemens has earned a starting spot but he has been great as a Super Utility guy. He should be the starting 2B until Houston is ready to take over. 

Im looking to make 4 acquisitions. 

1. We need a proven shut down Closer. 

2. We need a legitimate Ace. Ryan isn't it. Pablo cant be counted on. Anything we get from Pablo will be a bonus. 

3. We need a very good Catcher. That problem can be solved by somehow keeping Jeffers on the team. Otherwise finding a starter is a must. Caratini is not it. 

4. A big bat, solid defensive 1B. The kind of bat that changes a line up. Slots in at cleanup daily. Spend the money and get this guy. 

If there is going to be a salary floor, we are nowhere near it and will need to spend money. Go ALL IN on these 4 spots and fill in the rest of the roster with what we have. We have a ton of great potential in our younger players. Mix in some veteran super stars and I believe we will have a contender. 

[NYCTK]

18 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

Which of the players on expiring contracts were they going to bring back.  Duran and Jax followed the pattern of Pressley, Rogers and other relievers.  The only trade that didn't follow the pattern was Varland.  And when did Falvey in 10 years ever rely on young players unless forced to.

So I am looking history and trends and I will believe what that tells me.

You can look at the same trends and decide something else, that is up to you, but please don't tell me what I believe.

OK. So they only traded 5 or 6 players that were under contract for the following season at the trade deadline. 

When's the last time someone did that and WASN'T a rebuild? 

Look man, you don't have to contort yourself to defend Falvey or Zoll or the Pohlads or whomever. The Twins had very clearly signaled they were rebuilding and that 2026 was a bridge year. That is, until Tom stepped in and actively hurt the organization. 

[The Great Hambino]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

OK. So they only traded 5 or 6 players that were under contract for the following season at the trade deadline. 

When's the last time someone did that and WASN'T a rebuild? 

Look man, you don't have to contort yourself to defend Falvey or Zoll or the Pohlads or whomever. The Twins had very clearly signaled they were rebuilding and that 2026 was a bridge year. That is, until Tom stepped in and actively hurt the organization. 

Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but trading guys with 2+ years of control left was also unprecedented for Falvey and more of an indication of a rebuild

[NYCTK]

5 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but trading guys with 2+ years of control left was also unprecedented for Falvey and more of an indication of a rebuild

Correct. Two top tier relievers traded away with 2.5 years of control remaining. 

Obviously signaling a full rebuild.

They had no intention of truly competing in 2026 on July 31, 2025. Not until the losers running the team stepped in. 

[bean5302]

12 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Except that the very first thing Tom did was to fire the previous GM who had just begun an obvious rebuild. Followed up by a deliberate, highly visible campaign tour promising a commitment to “winning”.

I don’t for a second believe Zoll had anywhere close to the autonomy you insinuate here. Conceivably, someday. Currently, no way.

I feel like you have no idea what a rebuild or fire sale looks like. The only significant asset the Twins moved was Duran.

Twins fans have been coddled in this market featuring the only team in the AL Central which has never walked out a sub-$100MM payroll during the Falvey era.

[HarmonK03]

31 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I feel like you have no idea what a rebuild or fire sale looks like. The only significant asset the Twins moved was Duran.

Twins fans have been coddled in this market featuring the only team in the AL Central which has never walked out a sub-$100MM payroll during the Falvey era.

💯 Agree

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I feel like you have no idea what a rebuild or fire sale looks like. The only significant asset the Twins moved was Duran.

Twins fans have been coddled in this market featuring the only team in the AL Central which has never walked out a sub-$100MM payroll during the Falvey era.

Did you forget the reliever in Toronto who’s going to win the newly created Reliever of the Year award?

[bean5302]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

Did you forget the reliever in Toronto who’s going to win the newly created Reliever of the Year award?

You mean the middle reliever who couldn't make it as a starter because he got hit hard and often? He changed this approach, increased his velocity and had a new team and pitching coach. 2026 Varland is not 2025 Varland. Aside from that, this 2026 Varland probably never exists if he stayed with the Twins.

At the time Varland was traded, he wasn't that good. He owned a 4.94 ERA as a reliever for Toronto last year.

[Vanimal46]

7 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

You mean the middle reliever who couldn't make it as a starter because he got hit hard and often? He changed this approach, increased his velocity and had a new team and pitching coach. 2026 Varland is not 2025 Varland. Aside from that, this 2026 Varland probably never exists if he stayed with the Twins.

At the time Varland was traded, he wasn't that good. He owned a 4.94 ERA as a reliever for Toronto last year.

Varland broke the record for playoff appearances in 2025. Toronto clearly viewed him as a significant asset. 

[LastOnePicked]

On 9/18/2026 at 7:11 AM, HarmonK03 said:

What rebuild did they start, Falvey was doing what he has always done.  He got rid of expiring contracts and traded away relievers at the trade deadline.  This is what he had done throughout his tenure but all of a sudden he is rebuilding because this is what we want to see. 

I'll admit that I wanted to see a rebuild, sure. But it's hard to argue that trading a third of a team's active roster and jettisoning your marquee SS was just "business as usual."

I mean, Joe Ryan was nearly traded that day as well. Come on. This was more than the usual Taylor Rogers swap.

[LastOnePicked]

15 hours ago, ashbury said:

It's Pohlads all the way down.

That's probably the real rot. We've changed GMs, managers, coaches, rosters. The one constant is the Pohlad heirs - people with no real interest in baseball, no urgency to grow the business and no understanding of how to build a winner.

[LastOnePicked]

11 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Toronto clearly viewed him as a significant asset. 

It's always frustrating when your opponents have a better understanding of your players' potential than the people running your own organization.

[HarmonK03]

12 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

That's probably the real rot. We've changed GMs, managers, coaches, rosters. The one constant is the Pohlad heirs - people with no real interest in baseball, no urgency to grow the business and no understanding of how to build a winner.

We changed the field staff, but the front office has the same personnel except Falvey.

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I am envious of the Angels who finally escaped Arte Moreno… Hopefully we can rejoice in a year or 2 after the new CBA is in place 

And Arte Moreno buys the Twins from the Pohlads?