Tuesday's Injury Feels Like a Huge One for Byron Buxton

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

But the idea that Tom P. is saying who to put on the IL or that he wants them to trade for Tommy Nance is ludicrous.  He gives direction and JZ identifies how to carry to carry out that direction and what moves and players will help him meet the objectives given to him.

If I'm the CEO and the people I have hired to manage the organization allowed a clearly injured star player and "face of the franchise" to injure himself even worse (a scenario that has played out with this exact same player multiple times with the same lose-lose result) while ALSO allowing the clearly injured star's terrible performance to hurt the team's chances of making the playoffs in a season in which you've promised fans meaningful September baseball - man, heads are gonna roll.  

[KirbyDome89]

6 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If I'm the CEO and the people I have hired to manage the organization allowed a clearly injured star player and "face of the franchise" to injure himself even worse (a scenario that has played out with this exact same player multiple times with the same lose-lose result) while ALSO allowing the clearly injured star's terrible performance to hurt the team's chances of making the playoffs in a season in which you've promised fans meaningful September baseball - man, heads are gonna roll.  

Nobody is accusing the Pohlad's of being decent, or even remotely competent owners. The last few years should've cemented that. 

Maybe heads do roll (I have my doubts) but the current Buxton situation isn't some wild departure from how this team has acted previously. 

[NYCTK]

8 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If I'm the CEO and the people I have hired to manage the organization allowed a clearly injured star player and "face of the franchise" to injure himself even worse (a scenario that has played out with this exact same player multiple times with the same lose-lose result) while ALSO allowing the clearly injured star's terrible performance to hurt the team's chances of making the playoffs in a season in which you've promised fans meaningful September baseball - man, heads are gonna roll.  

And a very obvious replacement in AAA that literally everyone is yelling to call up. 

Yeah, I don't think Tom Pohlad tackled Zoll as he was attempting to put Buxton back on the IL to stop him from doing so. But I also think it's kind of the CEO's job to have, at least, a weekly conversation about the baseball operations of the baseball organization and question the decisions that he's delegated.

If it's been obvious to everyone here that Buxton isn't helping the team playing injured, and if it's obvious to everyone here that Jenkins should currently be starting at the major league level, then it should be obvious to Mr Pohlad too. And the fact that it's been a month of this nonsense tells everyone everything they need to know. 

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Nobody is accusing the Pohlad's of being decent, or even remotely competent owners. The last few years should've cemented that. 

Maybe heads do roll (I have my doubts) but the current Buxton situation isn't some wild departure from how this team has acted previously. 

Fair enough, and yeah in a vacuum the Buxton thing is not a fireable offense.  But this same scenario has played out multiple times WITH BUXTON through different GMs, managers, trainers, and Pohlads.  Not to mention with Joe Ryan and so many other players too.  

And they had one of the best prospects in baseball who happens to play the same exact position mashing in AAA.  But instead of playing him they just let Buxton get more hurt.  It's friggin' malpractice and I'm so tired of the incompetence of this organization.  

It's not a wild departure and that's the problem.  This organization needs to fundamentally change its approach.

[TheLeviathan]

25 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If Tom Pohlad had said nothing, do you think Buxton is on the IL with this team trying to cling to a WC spot? I don't. 

Concur that the adults in the room need to act as such, but how the Twins handle these situations predates Tom Pohlad opening his mouth. 

Well that's sorta the rub right?  I think the "trying to cling to a WC spot" is driven by Pohlad.  I think a team that rightly sells at the deadline doesn't have that mentality and isn't pushing Buxton to play as part of a pennant chase.  Maybe it'd given Buxton the feeling that he didn't have to injure himself chasing the ghost of contention.  

Now, that said, he might have insisted anyway, but at least there wasn't an organizational push towards "we're contenders god dammit!" mixed into it.  

[HarmonK03]

24 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If I'm the CEO and the people I have hired to manage the organization allowed a clearly injured star player and "face of the franchise" to injure himself even worse (a scenario that has played out with this exact same player multiple times with the same lose-lose result) while ALSO allowing the clearly injured star's terrible performance to hurt the team's chances of making the playoffs in a season in which you've promised fans meaningful September baseball - man, heads are gonna roll.  

You say he is clearly injured, has a doctor ruled him out.  Yes he is less than 100%, who knows what percentage he is.  In this case as it has been pointed out, they are acting no differently than they have in the past with Buxton or any other player in this situation.  You can't just put a player on the IL if the doctors are clearing him to play, you have to work with him if he thinks he can play, especially when it is your franchise player.  He has shown in the last few days that he can play, Monday night was the most recent example.

Now I would have the conversation with him and convince him he is not helping the team.  Last night was the final straw for me, if he can't run a ball down in the gap and is going to be out  x number of days even if it is less than the length of an IL stint, he needs to go on the IL.  Because he is not helping the team.  But you are going to need his buy in.

 

[KirbyDome89]

19 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Fair enough, and yeah in a vacuum the Buxton thing is not a fireable offense.  But this same scenario has played out multiple times WITH BUXTON through different GMs, managers, trainers, and Pohlads.  Not to mention with Joe Ryan and so many other players too.  

And they had one of the best prospects in baseball who happens to play the same exact position mashing in AAA.  But instead of playing him they just let Buxton get more hurt.  It's friggin' malpractice and I'm so tired of the incompetence of this organization.  

It's not a wild departure and that's the problem.  This organization needs to fundamentally change its approach.

I don't disagree at all with the bolded, I only brought up the past debacles to highlight why I don't think Tom Pohlad is driving (or even has a seat on) this bus. 

[Woof Bronzer]

Just now, KirbyDome89 said:

I don't disagree at all with the bolded, I only brought up the past debacles to highlight why I don't think Tom Pohlad is driving (or even has a seat on) this bus. 

And to clear I'm not saying I think the rest of the org was saying to sit him and Tom overruled them.  I think the rest of the org is operating on the mantra of competing in 2026 (and I think Falvey was fired because he was not willing to get on board with this approach) and that absolutely factored into the decision making.

But I am saying that a leader is responsible for the decisions of the people they hire, and if those people continue to make bad decisions, then replace them with better people.  Either way the buck stops at the top.

To use your bus analogy:  if you hire someone to drive your bus and that person gets in one dumb accident, it's the driver's fault.  If that driver gets in 12 more dumb accidents after that, it's your fault for continuing to employ the driver. 

 

[KirbyDome89]

19 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Well that's sorta the rub right?  I think the "trying to cling to a WC spot" is driven by Pohlad.  I think a team that rightly sells at the deadline doesn't have that mentality and isn't pushing Buxton to play as part of a pennant chase.  Maybe it'd given Buxton the feeling that he didn't have to injure himself chasing the ghost of contention.  

Now, that said, he might have insisted anyway, but at least there wasn't an organizational push towards "we're contenders god dammit!" mixed into it.  

I think it's a watered down AL more than anything, pretty sure we agree on that.

Sure, I'll cede that if they had sold, and crashed out a la last year, Buxton might be more inclined to sit. I just have a hard time believing that Buxton, at 32, is willing to (in his mind) punt on a season, and activity at the deadline or not, I don't think the standings would be much different given how bad the AL is. 

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, KirbyDome89 said:

I think it's a watered down AL more than anything, pretty sure we agree on that.

Sure, I'll cede that if they had sold, and crashed out a la last year, Buxton might be more inclined to sit. I just have a hard time believing that Buxton, at 32, is willing to (in his mind) punt on a season, and activity at the deadline or not, I don't think the standings would be much different given how bad the AL is. 

I think we pretty much agree.  From my perspective he was clearly playing hurt.  The kind of hurt you respect a player for battling through when the stakes are high, but the kind you'd rather they sit down and get better if the stakes aren't high.

I think the argument to get him to rest is easier when your organization isn't playing make-believe about how good they are.

[KirbyDome89]

1 minute ago, Woof Bronzer said:

And to clear I'm not saying I think the rest of the org was saying to sit him and Tom overruled them.  I think the rest of the org is operating on the mantra of competing in 2026 (and I think Falvey was fired because he was not willing to get on board with this approach) and that absolutely factored into the decision making.

But I am saying that a leader is responsible for the decisions of the people they hire, and if those people continue to make bad decisions, then replace them with better people.  Either way the buck stops at the top.

To use your bus analogy:  if you hire someone to drive your bus and that person gets in one dumb accident, it's the driver's fault.  If that driver gets in 12 more dumb accidents after that, it's your fault for continuing to employ the driver. 

 

Again, don't disagree with the bolded. I think Buxton playing is a case of the manager being deferential to his veteran star, and the fact that we've seen this org allow Buxton, and other players to "fight through it," at other times gives me pause if we're talking about Tom Pohlad's impact. 

[weitz41]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

It has never worked out, yet they do it year after year. Just like refusing to IL him right away, and playing with a shorter bench. Over and over. No matter who the manager and GM are. WTF?

As long as Buxton is the best position player on the roster it probably won't change. Let's hope our next star player is more durable. It should have been Royce, but two blown out knees changed that. Emma...nevermind. Jenkins maybe. Way off in the distance Lackey...

[S Bart]

6 hours ago, NYCTK said:

What is with the reflex to defend the CEO of the failing company? Is the CEO not the top dog and responsible for the decisions of the organization? 

No one ever rushes to defend the CEO in any other industry, that I know of. 

Agree....I am sorry Buxton fans...BUXTON decided this time not to rehab in St. Paul first. I get a bit tired of this drama.... it is unfortunate and am sorry that he has these countless injuries, but the team needs to look towards the future. It's time. He should be a part-time player. Yes, he is a really nice guy, but c'mon folks...............

[S Bart]

3 minutes ago, weitz41 said:

As long as Buxton is the best position player on the roster it probably won't change. Let's hope our next star player is more durable. It should have been Royce, but two blown out knees changed that. Emma...nevermind. Jenkins maybe. Way off in the distance Lackey...

I question if he is the best position player at this point. If he cannot be counted on to be present due to injury, how can he be defined as the best?

[bean5302]

Buxton is sitting today after Tom Pohlad examined him and determined he didn't need to be on the IL yet.

[weitz41]

1 minute ago, S Bart said:

I question if he is the best position player at this point. If he cannot be counted on to be present due to injury, how can he be defined as the best?

Basing that on healthy or not at this moment is like saying Juan Soto is worse than Ryan Kreidler...Be reasonable. Healthy...who is the best position player on the Twins...

[Scott51104]

"But we're off topic here."

Agreed

[Cory Engelhardt]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Time to put Jenkins in CF

I'd be more than fine with Emma in cf, Jenkins in lf and Keaschall in rf. But if Jenkins is in cf that's fine too.

[LyleCole]

Can you imagine the haul of prospects we could have got for Buxton before the start of the season?  He was coming off perhaps his best season of his MLB career, only the 3rd of his 12 season in which he played more than 95 games, and was still a high impact hitter and fielder.  Contending markets would have looked at his contract, which is huge for the Twins, as petty change for the value they would be getting.

Sure, he had a no trade clause and stated he did not want to be traded, but that would have changed when he would be looking at being on a real contending team.

Instead, we pretended we were contenders and probably lost a chance to maximize our returns on player like Buxton and Joe Ryan, and to a lesser extend Trevor Larnach and Ryan Jeffers.

Perhaps the ownership has turned around and will spend money to keep Jeffers and add real talent in the offseason.  But does anyone really believe that?  And then, when the next rebuild starts and we confront the problem of not having quality pitching in both starters and relievers, we need to remember these decisions made start to finish in 2026.

[ashbury]

12 minutes ago, LyleCole said:

Can you imagine the haul of prospects we could have got for Buxton before the start of the season?  

Yes. 

It would be quite little. 

Other teams can see the same thing you do.  His contract isn't a boat anchor, but it was accurately priced when it was signed, he hasn't been more durable than expected at that time, and there's no excess value in it now.

Quote

Sure, he had a no trade clause and stated he did not want to be traded

Thank you for saving everyone else the need to point out the obvious.

[S Bart]

21 minutes ago, weitz41 said:

Basing that on healthy or not at this moment is like saying Juan Soto is worse than Ryan Kreidler...Be reasonable. Healthy...who is the best position player on the Twins...

"Healthy" ...you need to count on a player being present. I did research on this topic. 

- Hip/Knee/Hamstring/Groin/Back/Shoulder/Wrist/Hand/Toe

- Concussions/concussion-like symptoms/Hit-by-pitches/Collisions/Migraines

Through yesterday, he has appeared in approximately 54,5% of the games since arriving on the team. Granted, there may have been some rest days.....but let's plan for the future.

My point is that they should start planning on placing a new person in CF.  It simply makes sense.

Your definition of reasonable differs from mine. 

[S Bart]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Yes. 

It would be quite little. 

Other teams can see the same thing you do.  His contract isn't a boat anchor, but it was accurately priced when it was signed, he hasn't been more durable than expected at that time, and there's no excess value in it now.

Thank you for  saving everyone else the need to point out the obvious.

Peaches are great in Georgia

[NYCTK]

Huh, I think I just realized I've never seen the Twins at home while Buxton has been healthy. Only seeing 2 PH ABs...which he's not done well. 

22 minutes ago, weitz41 said:

Basing that on healthy or not at this moment is like saying Juan Soto is worse than Ryan Kreidler...Be reasonable. Healthy...who is the best position player on the Twins...

This is a bit ridiculous comparing a ten year history of injuries against a player who has lost significant time for the first time this season due to injuries. 

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Yes. 

It would be quite little. 

Other teams can see the same thing you do.  His contract isn't a boat anchor, but it was accurately priced when it was signed, he hasn't been more durable than expected at that time, and there's no excess value in it now.

Thank you for saving everyone else the need to point out the obvious.

Plenty of players have waived NTC after saying they didn't want to be traded. Many have actually invoked it too. To think that Buxton would for sure reject any trade is no less ridiculous than suggesting he'd for sure waive it. 

I can absolutely imagine a GM telling him they were rebuilding and wanted to respect his remaining years of productivity and allow him to leave. I can imagine it because I've seen it happen with different players! 

[S Bart]

8 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Huh, I think I just realized I've never seen the Twins at home while Buxton has been healthy. Only seeing 2 PH ABs...which he's not done well. 

This is a bit ridiculous comparing a ten year history of injuries against a player who has lost significant time for the first time this season due to injuries. 

Before the 2026 All-Star break, Buxton was:

.271 BA / .328 OBP / .575 SLG / .903 OPS

After the break:

.132 / .246 / .151 / .397

[weitz41]

20 minutes ago, S Bart said:

"Healthy" ...you need to count on a player being present. I did research on this topic. 

- Hip/Knee/Hamstring/Groin/Back/Shoulder/Wrist/Hand/Toe

- Concussions/concussion-like symptoms/Hit-by-pitches/Collisions/Migraines

Through yesterday, he has appeared in approximately 54,5% of the games since arriving on the team. Granted, there may have been some rest days.....but let's plan for the future.

My point is that they should start planning on placing a new person in CF.  It simply makes sense.

Your definition of reasonable differs from mine. 

To just try and tackle your point. They have planned for the future. Jenkins and Emma are ready and waiting. This injury along with the September roster expansion should get one or both of them on the active roster.

By reasonable I mean something in the order of you don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Give it a week you'll like get your wish.

[LyleCole]

38 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Yes. 

It would be quite little. 

Other teams can see the same thing you do.  His contract isn't a boat anchor, but it was accurately priced when it was signed, he hasn't been more durable than expected at that time, and there's no excess value in it now.

Thank you for saving everyone else the need to point out the obvious.

Sorry, you are not correct about "everyone saying this".    

[HarmonK03]

No one knows what the conversations were between Buxton and the front office.  But to just firmly say he would have waived his NTC to play for a contender is fantasy and has no basis for it.  

I take him at his word and the reason he doesn't want to move.  It's important to play on one team, he saw the impact of Joe Mauer and he has mentioned that.  So until he states something else or there is an actual trade announced, everything is just guessing.

[old nurse]

45 minutes ago, ashbury said:

 

Thank you for saving everyone else the need to point out the obvious.

Yet the obvious does not prevent the horse that long ago was beaten to a powder from being beaten some more. The only two teams that that don’t seem to mind injury prone players are the Yankees and the Dodgers.  Very rarely do the prospects they give up ammounts to much, but the will give you a haul.  

[h2oface]

At this point in the season, with all the emotion and urgency, the only away to get a current hole in the lineup out of it, was for Buxton to go out with injury. A month and a half of desperation and hope that was failing miserably. This should be good news, as sad as it is.