Twins Lose Because of Poor Play, Not Yankees Dominance

[SoCalTwinsfan]

I looked at how few of the current Twins have experienced a playoff loss to teh Yankees.

 

So this Twins team doesn't truly understand what the fans have gone through over the last 11 1/2 seasons as the Twins have gone 21-55 against the Yankees and 947-839 against everyone else. And that doesn't include going 2-12 in the playoffs, including losing the last nine.

 

You can read the rest of Minnesota Twins Lose Because of Poor Play, Not New York Yankees Dominance at Yahoo! Sports.

 

Are the Yankees in the heads of the Twins? Will the Twins ever win a series from the Yankees?

[Gernzy]

I really don't think they are in our heads right now. Burton is continuing to struggle. At this point I wonder if we need a new 8th inning guy. At least until Burton gets it together.

 

I think it should be Fien. He's be pitching well and can strike people out.

[Halsey Hall]

Fien should of started the 8th. But Gardy is to stone headed to try something different. Burton's been just bad lately and shouldn't have pitched. So that's 2 straight we've given up. I almost turned it off when Burton came in, but waited to see his pickoff throw go down the line and then hit the button.

[Winston Smith]

165-238 over the last 2 1/2 years, poor play is a common occurrence!

[JB_Iowa]

Gardenhire should just go fishing when the Twins are scheduled to play the Yankees.

[Guest USAFChief]

Gardenhire should just go fishing when the Twins are scheduled to play.

Fixed that for ya, JB.

[Chance]

I thought that 8th inning was the perfect time to see what Caleb was made of. He should have came in to face Cano. I knew it wasn't going to happen but I honestly didn't expect Gardy to run Burton back out there either. Was Gardy to afraid to let one slip so he went to his ol' reliable Burton/Perkins? Caleb would have had to face Cano(lefty) Wells(righty) and Hafner(lefty). We don't know that he can handle himself in key spots like this, but of course, we will never know if he is never put in that spot.

[Seth Stohs]

I have no problem with Gardy sticking by the guys who have been pretty good for an extended period. They've earned the opportunity to work out of their struggles. However, for both Burton and Duensing, that string, in my opinion, is out at this point. Time to put Fien into the 8th inning role and to loosen the reigns on Thielbar. Put Burton and Duensing into some less leverage situations until they turn it around. They will, unless there are injuries.

[Chance]

I was thinking that Burton might be battling an undisclosed injury yesterday. He just doesnt seem right (more than just struggling?).

[edavis0308]

To answer the original question at hand, I don't think it is the fact that the Yankees are in the Twins heads - I think it is that we just don't match up well against them. They are typically built with a bunch of power hitters that see a ton of pitches and don't strike out, whereas our low strikeout, low walk batting practice pitchers usually feed right into their wheelhouse.

 

I will admit that when watching most games, it really doesn't seem like we can't hang with them in games - it usually does come from our own unraveling.

[stringer bell]

Agree with Seth that Burton and Duensing need to be "fixed", you probably can add Pressly as well. Right now, Perkins, Thielbar and Fien are going well, Roenicke so-so and the three guys I mentioned are having their problems. I think they need to ride the hot hands a bit and try to make it to the All-Star game without being buried. I speculated on another thread that injuries might be the reason for poor productivity for several players. I think Doumit, Mauer, Pressly, Willingham and Burton all need some rest and a couple of them might benefit from a stay on the DL.

[nicksaviking]

To answer the original question at hand, I don't think it is the fact that the Yankees are in the Twins heads - I think it is that we just don't match up well against them. They are typically built with a bunch of power hitters that see a ton of pitches and don't strike out, whereas our low strikeout, low walk batting practice pitchers usually feed right into their wheelhouse.

 

I will admit that when watching most games, it really doesn't seem like we can't hang with them in games - it usually does come from our own unraveling.

 

I agree with this quite a bit, though I think there is quite a bit of self-fullfilling prophecy regarding the Twins caving into the Yankees as well. The "Aw shucks, just doing the best I can" attitude is tiresome and comes with a built in excuse for losing. I'm not saying it's Twins-specific, but it is a Midwest attitude, and it is dripping all over the orgainzation.

[nicksaviking]

I think Doumit, Mauer, Pressly, Willingham and Burton all need some rest and a couple of them might benefit from a stay on the DL.

 

Particularly Willingham. If his knee is bad enough for an MRI, time to put him on the DL for some rest. It's not like he's more productive than Parmelee right now as it is. Rest him up and hope he produces and rebuilds his trade value.

[Chance]

Why? Why would you not expect G-Slug to put Burton back out there. It's what he does.

 

 

I didnt expect it because it just seemed so obvious that he is currently in no way at the top of his game and that you would be feeding him to the Yankees bats. I guess a simple answer to your question is, "I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he knew better." I was clearly mistaking.

 

I'm not a Gardy basher, I think this team could use some change, though ( I don't me Ulger which is probably what it would be). I was just severely dissapointed that he put Burton out there when any betting man would say that he was the least likely of all the Twins bullpen arms (minus Pressly?) to get out of that inning with a zero on the board.

[Willihammer]

Burton isn't the wrong guy to be facing lefties. You look at the splits of guys who are heavily dependent on changeups and they're usually nil or slightly opposite and that includes Burton. But, Burton's not had his best stuff against righties or lefties in quite a while. I'd "demote" him to 4th or 5th inning guy until/if he can get his groove back on.

 

edit: I'd also add, that when you can't throw your changeup in the dirt because your catcher can't block pitches worth a darn, then you are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Beezer07]

Why? Why would you not expect G-Slug to put Burton back out there. It's what he does.

 

Why do you feel the need to launch a personal insult every time you mention him?

[DaveW]

No issues with them running Burton out there, up until the past couple weeks Burton has been one of the better 8th inning guys in baseball and he is signed somewhat long term, it is evident now he has got to work something out on his end now.

 

**** happens, its frustrating because Burton was one of the few guys we thought we could count on this year.

[LaBombo]

I think it is that we just don't match up well against them. They are typically built with a bunch of power hitters that see a ton of pitches and don't strike out, whereas our low strikeout, low walk batting practice pitchers usually feed right into their wheelhouse.

Agree that bad pitchers don't match up well against good hitters, but that seems less like a wacky, luck-o'-the-draw rock/paper/scissors matchup problem than it does an utterly predictable and ideally avoidable rock vs. eggshells problem.

 

And while I'm in get off my lawn mode, the article seems a little off on a couple of points. The first is that when multiple rosters of a franchise are dominated for over a decade by another team, it generates a such a media-attracting tradition of losing that even the most junior and most transient team members are very likely aware of the problem.

 

The second is that the massive roster turnover since the golden age of playoff ineptitude is a much more compelling indictment of the Twins' difficulty in acquiring and retaining talented ball players than it is a defense against the notion that the Twins (and who are we kidding, we're really talking about Gardenhire) simply can't beat the Yankees.

[drjim]

No issues with them running Burton out there, up until the past couple weeks Burton has been one of the better 8th inning guys in baseball and he is signed somewhat long term, it is evident now he has got to work something out on his end now.

 

**** happens, its frustrating because Burton was one of the few guys we thought we could count on this year.

 

This. But it is probably time to get him in some lower leverage situations. Fien can handle the role for the time being.

[Danchat]

I think it's time to put Caleb in more dire situations and rest Burton up a bit. Even if he has to go on the 15 day DL. Fien should get some 8th innings too.

Burton and Diamond were our best last year... what's up with them?!

[Riverbrian]

Why do you feel the need to launch a personal insult every time you mention him?

 

Twins Daily agrees with your question:

 

Some of you may have noticed increased moderation and it will continue until its no longer necessary.

 

Increased moderation will become no longer necessary when everyone understands that addressing Ron Gardenhire or anyone else (posters and subjects of posts) like they are less than human is not acceptable on this site... or when those who don't understand or refuse to understand are banned and banned permanently in some cases.

 

It's been made pretty clear by the administrators that they will not tolerate this any longer... Yet it keeps happening.

 

I clearly get the impression from discussion and instruction from administrators that attempts at reform will eventually stop and IP addresses will just be blocked instead.

 

No need to hi jack this thread with a response to this... It's the way it is and it isn't going to change.

 

Back to the discussion. Keep it respectful.

[TheLeviathan]

No issues with them running Burton out there, up until the past couple weeks Burton has been one of the better 8th inning guys in baseball and he is signed somewhat long term, it is evident now he has got to work something out on his end now.

 

**** happens, its frustrating because Burton was one of the few guys we thought we could count on this year.

 

I never saw Burton that way. He was a high probability of regress IMO.

[ericchri]

Last night was the perfect example for why I hate saves and closers as a role. One-run lead, top of the 8th. 3-4-5 hitters for the other team coming up including the other teams' clearly best hitter and another guy who's been a homerun hitter in his career who are left-handed. That situation screams to me, "put in Perkins." Not Thielbar, not Duensing, but Perkins. Get through the meat of their lineup with your best pitcher who is also the best matchup by handedness instead of handing the ball to the wronghanded pitcher that's struggling at the moment. Let somebody else clean up the ninth against weaker hitters instead of awarding stupid statistic to somebody so that his pricetag can go up in the future.

[glunn]

Twins Daily agrees with your question:

 

Some of you may have noticed increased moderation and it will continue until its no longer necessary.

 

Increased moderation will become no longer necessary when everyone understands that addressing Ron Gardenhire or anyone else (posters and subjects of posts) like they are less than human is not acceptable on this site... or when those who don't understand or refuse to understand are banned and banned permanently in some cases.

 

It's been made pretty clear by the administrators that they will not tolerate this any longer... Yet it keeps happening.

 

I clearly get the impression from discussion and instruction from administrators that attempts at reform will eventually stop and IP addresses will just be blocked instead.

 

No need to hi jack this thread with a response to this... It's the way it is and it isn't going to change.

 

Back to the discussion. Keep it respectful.

 

I agree 100% with my colleague and would add (as has been stated many times) that it's perfectly OK to emphatically criticize Gardy or anyone else, so long as you follow the TD policy as posted at the top of the main forum.

 

The policy even gives helpful examples. For example, it is OK to say that you believe that Gardy's handling of the bullpen is totally incompetent and that you believe that the Twins should fire him tomorrow, preferably giving reasons for your opinion. But it's not OK to call Gardy (or anyone else) names like "idiot", "fat moron", "incompetent parasite" or "G-Slug."

 

The policy is not intended to restrict what you can say. The goal of the policy is to keep the discussion respectful, so that we can have rational discussions instead of flame wars.

[Kwak]

Part of this season is to determine who is part of the solution. It's really tough to lose Monday's game--but people have to answer the challenge. Exposing Burton and Duensing to a pressure situation was expected: they have been there before, have been given contract extensions, and yet have struggled of late. It's reasonable to conclude that the bullpen is not fixed and needs several upgrades. I think the Twins need to revamp their philosophy of bullpen pitchers and their development.

[silverslugger]

Last night's game is a perfect example of how a manager can burn out a bullpen over the course of a season. How many pitches did Fien throw to finish the 7th inning? 2? Two? Seriously! Fien has been pitching much better than Buron lately and had to get up and warm up for all of 2 pitches. You either keep Fien in to pitch the 8th or you go to your most talented pitcher who also happens to be left-handed to pitch to two lefties and a righty in the 8th.

 

Also, Doumit looked dumb-founded behind the plate last night. Just watching him absolutely butcher the catcher position defensively last night was enough to let me feel comfortable with the possibility of him leaving via trade sometime in the next 30 days.

[JB_Iowa]

 

Also, Doumit looked dumb-founded behind the plate last night. Just watching him absolutely butcher the catcher position defensively last night was enough to let me feel comfortable with the possibility of him leaving via trade sometime in the next 30 days.

 

 

Doumit looked awful at times but I found Berardino's take on the Diamond-Doumit pairing to be interesting: Minnesota Twins: Twinsights after 10-4 loss to the New York Yankees » Twins Now

[snepp]

Last night was the perfect example for why I hate saves and closers as a role. One-run lead, top of the 8th. 3-4-5 hitters for the other team coming up including the other teams' clearly best hitter and another guy who's been a homerun hitter in his career who are left-handed. That situation screams to me, "put in Perkins." Not Thielbar, not Duensing, but Perkins. Get through the meat of their lineup with your best pitcher who is also the best matchup by handedness instead of handing the ball to the wronghanded pitcher that's struggling at the moment. Let somebody else clean up the ninth against weaker hitters instead of awarding stupid statistic to somebody so that his pricetag can go up in the future.

 

 

*slow clap*