If He's Fired, Rocco Baldelli Will Only Be Minnesota Twins' “Fall Guy”

[JD-TWINS]

5 hours ago, Mark G said:

The bullpen is not burned...........yet.  And I have looked at the projected innings; the only thing keeping them as low as they appear right now is the fact the pen has not had to pitch the 9th innings of the games we lost on the road, which I seem to recall being 10.  Those projections would be a lot higher if we had to pitch those innings, or even tied the game and went to extras.  But my overall concern, projections or not, is the continued use of the 7th and 8th guys, along with the shuttle bus guys to and from St. Paul.  That is what is keeping the numbers down on the guys we really count on to win the games out of the pen, and how often do we really want the bottom layer of the pen out there?  I have always believed that your best starters going deeper is better than your bottom relievers pitching more often, but that is just me, I guess.  

As of right now the pen has worked just under 43% of the innings pitched this season.  Again, that is only because of the games we never saw the 9th inning, or it would be just over 45%.  The pen may not be burned yet, but last year should have taught us that continued usage at that pace did burn the pen out and may very well do it again unless those percentages change as the season goes along.  And that is solely on the manager.  

Average innings per start last year in MLB, 5.24 innings. Twins average innings per start last year 5.26 innings. Our bullpen usage had zero to do with last year’s end result.

Regarding ‘25, the 6th - 7th - 8th guys in the PEN just supposed to kick back and watch the games? I don’t get it - at all. There are numerous losses on the road every year.

Many, many here at TD complain about the Manager and terrible strategy and misuse of the pitching staff. Last year the same Manager with the screwed up approach had a Team that was 23 games over .500 from mid-April to mid-August.

The offense absolutely sucked from mid-August through September. Same deal in April of ‘25. There’s no strategy that’s going to elevate this weak hitting Team.

Someone above suggested Baldelli should have guys bunt occasionally to move a runner or get something started. I know for certain that he’s had Kiersey TRY to bunt in 3 different AB’s over past 7-8 games……..he popped out to the pitcher in his first attempt on a ball thrown at his chest……… he tapped the 2nd attempt in a separate game at the opposing 3B on deck circle ……..his 3rd, and probably last attempt, he had the ball hit his fingers and injured himself. The Manager doesn’t play…….. the offense is pathetic & again, there is no strategy to hide that.

Recent game, bases loaded and one out, Correa strikes out after taking strike one and strike 2 …….. France strikes out. Bases loaded & the 4/5 hitters can’t put the ball in play - same pitcher that loaded the bases! Inning over. It’s been this type of performance in most games in ‘25.

[JD-TWINS]

28 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

I have been often critical of how Rocco handles his starters. He embraces analytics instead of showing confidence in his players. There are too many examples where Rocco removed a starter on low pitch counts  because analytics. Sonny Gray objected to being handled like that, getting removed after five innings and a fairly low pitch count. So he left for greener pastures and more money. Then there was removing Ryan after two innings in the playoffs in 2023, a game they lost. There are other examples. This burns out the bullpen and results in a constant stream of relievers from St. Paul. 

Sonny Gray left for money - period. Removing Ryan in a playoff game has nothing to do with bullpen burnout. The Team’s issue from August 17 - today is the absolute ineffectiveness of their hitters. Some have been injured and some just have disappeared (Miranda - Correa - Larnach) and no juggling of the Rotation nor Pen is going to get around this fact.

Sonny Gray beat the Blue Jays in playoffs of ‘23 with a fantastic pick off at 2B to get him out of a 5th inning jam………next inning he was replaced and he got a win with 4 bullpen innings. Next start for Gray, he was brutal v. Houston. Him going wasn’t that big of a deal. Ryan getting hurt around August 10 last year was a big deal …….. SWR - Festa - Matthews as 60% of the Rotation was a problem down the stretch as all were fatigued relative to their pro careers, and a big reason for Pen issues (that had any effect) the last 6 weeks of season.

Twins have used starters longer in ‘23 & ‘24 than MLB average use of starters.

Recall that last year the guy that lead the Team in HR & RBI for the season was a leading candidate (with Vazquez & Margot) to be DFA’d  in April ………. Gold Glove winner, Carlos Santana. My point is, things can change without some mastery of strategy in every possible situation that can later be scrutinized.

[TheLeviathan]

45 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

Are any of those quotes from this season?

I agree in principle.  And in the past I've thought that's where Rocco was at his best - keeping things together behind the scenes.  But this run of underperformance that started last year and has continued into this year makes me wonder if a) that's still true or b) if it is still true, why it is no longer translating to on-field results.

In an era of constant player movement, 15 players still remain in the organization from the initial 2023 ALDS roster, and that doesn't include Buxton.  It's not like there's been some mass talent exodus.  In fact, some of the top performers this year weren't in that group - four of their top 5 in bWAR this year weren't on that team, the fifth being Buxton.  

To be fair, we can't know exactly the effect he's having in the clubhouse without being in there.  But the context clues don't support his continued effectiveness in this area.  And it's not like he has some elite tactical mind to fall back on.  So we're left with ... what, exactly?

I'm not necessarily making a defense and the season is pretty young so I can't say I know of any quotes this year.  

My personal opinion is that our position players are just not good enough.  Maybe someone else could squeeze more out of them, I'm not opposed to trying that.  I just know where I'd put my money on how much that change would show up with a new guy.  We have a bunch of #6 hitters who aren't great fielders.

[Heistyman]

I wonder if Baldelli holds his coaches to a certain standard or not.  He seems so uninvolved and/or unemotional in the dugout, does that carryover to his meetings with coaches and players.  If you seem disengaged when interacting with the staff the staff may get unenthused when carrying out the mission.

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Linus said:

Agree that Falvey isn’t going anywhere until the Pohlads sell. As far as figuring out who to blame I have no issue with that. It’s 80% Front Office and 20% Rocco simply because they impact every aspect of the organization including who the players end up being that the manager manages. 

Blame per your comment is 80% FO & 20% Rocco……..

Miranda - Correa - Larnach  nearly zero results ……. Lewis hurt - Wallner hurt ……… Gasper - Kiersey - Vazquez nearly zero results (literally) ……… Jax & Alcala with ERA’s over 11.00 ………… Ryan, 3 HR’s in one outing …. Ober 8 runs in 1 2/3 innings…… Paddock’s first 2 starts. To me, the guys that are getting paid to actually PLAY the games and affect results have at least 70% of the blame, at a minimum. 

[1985Fan]

Because Kiersey can’t bunt doesn’t mean that can’t be done. Those were the first bunt attempts in a very long time.  Rocco can’t be blamed for Keirsey or anyone’s particular AB. 
What Rocco can do is work on bunting during BP. They should be working on fundamentals during ST and every day, based on the way this team performs. That is what Rocco can control. TK used to have infield drills during pre-game everyday to drive home fundamentals. 
As someone else said earlier, manager should be part of everyday work that the coaches plan with players, including BP. I read earlier this year that Rocco was sitting in on hitter meetings reviewing scouting reports and game planning for the first time ever! That tells me he is not managing the team completely. Leaving the coaching up to his staff isn’t working. Can you imagine Bellicheck leaving the game plan up to coaches? Manager has to be engaged and part of fixing the problems. Or he can shrug his shoulders and blame the players. 
This is his first job as manager and it shows. He clearly is overmatched during games and is not doing enough between games. 

[Linus]

3 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Blame per your comment is 80% FO & 20% Rocco……..

Miranda - Correa - Larnach  nearly zero results ……. Lewis hurt - Wallner hurt ……… Gasper - Kiersey - Vazquez nearly zero results (literally) ……… Jax & Alcala with ERA’s over 11.00 ………… Ryan, 3 HR’s in one outing …. Ober 8 runs in 1 2/3 innings…… Paddock’s first 2 starts. To me, the guys that are getting paid to actually PLAY the games and affect results have at least 70% of the blame, at a minimum. 

I get what you are saying but I assume they are trying to do their best. If they are just not good enough Thats is on the FO to find better players. 

[The Great Hambino]

19 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm not necessarily making a defense and the season is pretty young so I can't say I know of any quotes this year.  

My personal opinion is that our position players are just not good enough.  Maybe someone else could squeeze more out of them, I'm not opposed to trying that.  I just know where I'd put my money on how much that change would show up with a new guy.  We have a bunch of #6 hitters who aren't great fielders.

If I had to bet, I'd agree that a new manager would probably get similar results and that there's only so much a manager can do if the players just don't perform.   But I'm also wrong a lot.  A new manager - just a new voice - can provide a spark to get guys performing where they ought to be. And if things don't turn around with a new voice, then the organization will have to look elsewhere for changes to be made.  It gets harder to blame the manager when you go through multiple with the same results.  So in a sense, a managerial change can be a win-win.  Either the team improves, or the heat gets concentrated on the front office.

Come to think of it, Falvey seems pretty self-aware.  This could be the real reason a managerial change isn't coming until dictated by ownership, whether it's the Pohlads or a new group.  Even if he thinks a change is needed, why play that card when it could be a get-out-of-jail-free card down the road?

[hitterscount]

This team has a starting rotation that can win games. Lopez, Ryan, Ober and get Matthews up here like yesterday is a top 1/3 rotation. Duran is a viable closer. The issue as everyone can see is there is zero team speed, terrible defense, awful plate approach and just the lack of fundamental baseball. Some of the issues are not on Rocco, but he sets the tone on pulling starting pitchers, using Duran in non closer situations, sitting players that may have finally broken their hitting slump, and like the article points out... treating games like wins aren't valued..... how many get away games does/ has he just thrown out lineups that are due to fail. He's not the only problem , he's just the biggest one. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Otaknam said:

I have been often critical of how Rocco handles his starters. He embraces analytics instead of showing confidence in his players. There are too many examples where Rocco removed a starter on low pitch counts  because analytics. Sonny Gray objected to being handled like that, getting removed after five innings and a fairly low pitch count. So he left for greener pastures and more money. Then there was removing Ryan after two innings in the playoffs in 2023, a game they lost. There are other examples. This burns out the bullpen and results in a constant stream of relievers from St. Paul. 

It's already been pointed out, but Rocco leaves in his starters longer than the average manager does and unfortunately this is a modern baseball thing. The next manager isn't going to keep our starters out there for another inning on average. Sure, he could leave his starters in a bit longer but I have that same critique for most of our opponents we face.

Methinks bullpen burnout has more to do with bad starters having short starts, not because of the manager. And with the improved rotation we've had the past few years, our pen hasn't been as taxed. Their usage this season is in line with other MLB teams.

[mluebker]

It's never all the managers fault. But different people have different ways of deploying the resources they're given. Meager as those may be, maybe someone can get more out of them than Rocco. Because it's pretty clear no one is going to upgrade this roster in any sort of significant way until the team gets a new owner. If then.

[AKTwinsFan]

The Mariners were having the same issues. Too much swing and miss, no baserunning, etc. They had enough and hired on some previous players Dan Wilson and Edgar Maritinez. Since then they have risen in the ranks of hitting, baserunning and scoring. All of which takes pressure off pitchers which has them pitching their best. 

[JD-TWINS]

20 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Yes it's time for a change.  I'm not a Baldelli fan at all but I surely don't place all the blame on him.  Baldelli appears to have very little leadership qualities.  He appears to stubbornly stick to his analytical pie chart not overly concerned about winning.  And it shows.  But if Baldelli goes so should Falvey.  That's not likely since he just got a promotion by ownership.  This team is a mess.  None of the powers to be seem to care.

The Team is for sale - GM getting fired in this potential transition period just isn’t happening. I can finally see that if things do not change into the right direction by May 9-10……..that’s enough time for Baldelli to make whatever adjustments he can try…….. that would be nearly 3 months of baseball malaise since last August 17.

Tough to expect Team results with Correa doing ZERO & Wallner getting put on IL & Larnach doing ZERO & Lopez getting put in IL & Lewis on IL and perpetually doing ZERO.

Alcala & Jax with double digit ERA’s.

I guess the sum of those issues warrants the firing of the Manager……??

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, FargoFanMan said:

Well, he’s a former player who has been in the league since he was like 21-22. I’m positive he is highly respected around the league which is why he got the job in the first place. If he gets fired he’ll absolutely catch on as a coach somewhere next year and maybe in a few years be up for a manager position. It happens to lots of managers. He’s not completely inept no matter what people here think. He’s a good baseball guy. Just maybe not for this team.

Agreed. Not perfect but who is?

I live in Cincinnati & I saw this morning that the Reds have scored 3 or less runs in 11 of 23 games. Nobody here is calling for Terry Francona to be relieved of his duties.

Starting from first full season at 21, Baldelli hit .290 over his first 3 seasons with an average WAR of 3.0. You’re right, he knows the game & is not inept.

A Managerial change wouldn’t be terrible but until the better players are healthy and they also start performing, the Team’s not winning.

[TheLeviathan]

4 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

If I had to bet, I'd agree that a new manager would probably get similar results and that there's only so much a manager can do if the players just don't perform.   But I'm also wrong a lot.  A new manager - just a new voice - can provide a spark to get guys performing where they ought to be. And if things don't turn around with a new voice, then the organization will have to look elsewhere for changes to be made.  It gets harder to blame the manager when you go through multiple with the same results.  So in a sense, a managerial change can be a win-win.  Either the team improves, or the heat gets concentrated on the front office.

Come to think of it, Falvey seems pretty self-aware.  This could be the real reason a managerial change isn't coming until dictated by ownership, whether it's the Pohlads or a new group.  Even if he thinks a change is needed, why play that card when it could be a get-out-of-jail-free card down the road?

The new voice is really the only thing I think would change.  I think a lot of the day to day, game-day stuff is organizational.  The same guy who hired Rocco would hire the replacement and be looking for the same things.  But yeah, sometimes a fresh human saying the same things the last guy did can lead to vastly different results.  Humans are weird that way.

[rv78]

Tingler came from the Padres. Didn't they improve quite a bit after he was dismissed? I mean, they didn't change the players and the Manager..... Just the Manager..... And it led to improvement. Whoever the choice would be to replace Rocco in some unforseen circumstance that he'd actually be fired, please don't replace him with Tingler. He's already proven himself to be an ineffective Manager.

[Mike Sixel]

post hoc ergo propter hoc

[h2oface]

His in game decisions to often create rage in this calm heart. Even if I ignore the early game pinch hitting and management of the pen and his early pitch count decisions, the stubborn pinch hitting of Margot last year screams 🔥 fire him 🔥 all by itself. 

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, Russ said:

An interim manager will continue the same.  Change is needed everywhere, Falvey on down. 

Tired of watching platoon heavy roster/lineups.   Poor baserunning, etc.

Fans in the stands and public opinion and poor ownership/management tells the story.

 

 

Wins & Losses are what tells the story, IMO……if Team was winning, people would be at The Park! Public opinion would be a complete 180.

[Mike Sixel]

Bellicheck was awful in Cleveland.... And after Brady left....

I'm not arguing keeping Rocco is good. I'm arguing it's much more the players. 

It is possible a new voice is needed. It's likely they need new players. 

[Mrs. Baseball]

On 4/21/2025 at 10:14 AM, The Great Hambino said:

It seems like most, if not all, defenses of Baldelli run along the lines of "it's not his fault" or "he's not the problem."

If that's your position ( and there's certainly at least some truth to it), then ask yourself this:

Is Baldelli the solution to any of the team's issues?

I have a hard time coming up with a way in which he is.  So even if he'll get replaced by Tingler or someone else that will be a clone or continue following Falvey's marching orders or whatever, it's worth trying to see if someone else can be the solution, or part of the solution.  The status quo is not worth maintaining with the continuity Baldelli provides, so there isn't much risk in his replacement being worse.  The upside of his replacement being a solution is worth that risk.

Hesitate to make this comment as this site appears to be pro-Baldelli but my view from the nickle seats is this: Two important duties for a manager are running a pitching staff and ensuring his team plays sound fundamental baseball. Neither of those items would be considered a strength for Rocco.

[Heiny]

Ok, I've read all the comments.  But what bothers me about the Twins is this;

1.  Striking out looking, especially with runners on base and in scoring position. (Julien sucks)

2. It seems there is a lack of hustle from some of our veterans.  Correa often does not run hard on infield ground balls.  That's not good leadership.

3. The Twins "can't" bunt.  Bunt to move up runners.

4. There are so many oppurtunities to score with runners in scoring position with less than two outs.  We fail, fail, fail.

5. Throwing erros on simple throws to first base.  What's with that?

6. And give me a break on this " The process matters more than the results".  Sorry, but that is total BS. When they figure out that winning matters, you will see more fans in the stands.

So, what does this all boil down to?  Management!  From the top down.  Rocco makes bad in game decisions(in my opinion).  Shoud he be fired?  Yes.  It's time for a new look.  New manager, new coaches, new front office and please new ownership.  There's my rant and I know it doesn't matter at all.  And many TD'rs will disagree.  But if this is how the Twins are going to continue, the team won't be around long.

 

[FargoFanMan]

3 hours ago, rv78 said:

Tingler came from the Padres. Didn't they improve quite a bit after he was dismissed? I mean, they didn't change the players and the Manager..... Just the Manager..... And it led to improvement. Whoever the choice would be to replace Rocco in some unforseen circumstance that he'd actually be fired, please don't replace him with Tingler. He's already proven himself to be an ineffective Manager.

A manager losing or losing the team doesn’t matter. They’re not players. There’s so much more than what you describe about Tingler. Joe Torre was fired by 3 teams before his Yankees run. Terry Francona was terrible for the Phillies before leading Boston to their 1st championships in years. Dusty Baker was fired from numerous teams before his Astros run. Tony Larussa was fired before Oakland and St. Louis. Bobby Cox was fired by the Braves in the early 80’s only to come back and become their all time winning manager. Doesn’t matter if they lost somewhere else. Maybe Tingler takes over and they win the World Series. Nobody knows. Joe Maddon was seen as a brilliant manager. Fired after like a year and a half with the angels. It literally doesn’t matter. The question is does the team respond? 

[Aerodeliria]

And...?

[FargoFanMan]

16 hours ago, Mark G said:

The manager's job is also to manage the coaches he is given.  And, considering the manager usually gets to select the coaches he wants working with him, he could very well be responsible for everything involving the coaching staff.  He can't ever just assign them a role and walk away assuming they will succeed; he must be reviewing everything all season long.  

That’s probably not the case either though. You don’t think a myriad of officials aren’t involved in making those decisions? We’re talking about a professional sports business with tons of people in every department. Nothing is decided by one guy ever. Does he deserve to be fired? Probably not but the manager is the first fall guy if the debacle continues. 
https://www.mlb.com/twins/team/front-office

[FargoFanMan]

21 hours ago, big dog said:

Did you look at that list of relievers? I’m not asking for $700 million. What about another $10 million? Or does money just not matter?

I’m not saying money doesn’t matter. It’s just not everything. It’s expensive to solve problems with FA’s. If you got $10M and it didn’t work out(aging FA player got hurt/ underperformed) would you want another $10M or would you be satisfied?

[David Maro]

I can only say Rocco Ball doesn't work in the Majors. It might be fine in a beer league. Players have routines and aren't going to perform when they don't know what position or where in the lineup they are. The team's with winning records run the same players out game after game.

[rv78]

11 hours ago, FargoFanMan said:

A manager losing or losing the team doesn’t matter. They’re not players. There’s so much more than what you describe about Tingler. Joe Torre was fired by 3 teams before his Yankees run. Terry Francona was terrible for the Phillies before leading Boston to their 1st championships in years. Dusty Baker was fired from numerous teams before his Astros run. Tony Larussa was fired before Oakland and St. Louis. Bobby Cox was fired by the Braves in the early 80’s only to come back and become their all time winning manager. Doesn’t matter if they lost somewhere else. Maybe Tingler takes over and they win the World Series. Nobody knows. Joe Maddon was seen as a brilliant manager. Fired after like a year and a half with the angels. It literally doesn’t matter. The question is does the team respond? 

This may be true but since the addition of Tingler as a coach the Twins haven't improved. One could say they have gotten worse.

[FargoFanMan]

1 hour ago, rv78 said:

This may be true but since the addition of Tingler as a coach the Twins haven't improved. One could say they have gotten worse.

Agreed, I think Tingler should have went last year with the hitting coaches. I tend to think and maybe I’m wrong that he agrees with Rocco maybe too much and doesn’t provide any pushback or different ideas. Rocco’s style seemed to change after the older gentleman he had as bench coach in 2019 retired whenever that was. I can’t recall.

[Mike Sixel]

11 hours ago, David Maro said:

I can only say Rocco Ball doesn't work in the Majors. It might be fine in a beer league. Players have routines and aren't going to perform when they don't know what position or where in the lineup they are. The team's with winning records run the same players out game after game.

To be clear, if Correa doesn't know if he's hitting fifth or sixth, that's why he's not hitting well? Seriously? 

This team largely plays the same players every day, when healthy.