The Twins Are Left With 3 Questions to Answer as Winter Meetings End

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

You've been beating this drum for 2 years now. I don't believe that anyone is advocating that the Pohlad’s just go out and spend big dollars year after year. It's not sustainable even if you're a billionaire. I'm pointing out that they aren't very adept at making their product fun, and more affordable for the average person who makes the wheel turn. That's not going to fly. And no one wants to hear a Pohlad employee, St. Peter   bad mouthing fans or not delivering on promises made for the quick and easy cash grab. Henry Ford wanted to keep producing the Model T. He KNEW what was BEST for the buying public. Even as he watched his market share dwindle. Rich people get things wrong too.  But you keep fighting the good fight for them. Till they do an Irsay and roll out of town as the minions sleep. Another poster noted the jersey advertisement option. If they're losing money year after year, why aren't they getting some money from that? That's 7 figure dollars.

Did I say they were great, doing a good job or anything that has anything to do with your post.  No.  I said profit is irrelevant but some of you insist on arguing something else.  You refuse to acknowledge the point and rant about something I did not say.

Who would have guessed that it would be a bad thing to be informed?   "There is none so blind as he who will not see (Bill Withers).  Arguing there is no point in being informed ... That's pretty hard to respect.

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Who would have guessed that it would be a bad thing to be informed?  

You're the only one refusing to do the analysis to the question only you yourself is asking. 

Do it yourself and stfu about everyone else being uninformed already. 

 

[sweetmusicviola16]

2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Always remember the 2024 Twins period of successes were a mirage, buoyed by a 13-1 record against the worst team in MLB history. 

They were ALWAYS a mediocre team and that was entirely evident by early July. Just became painfully obvious in September. 

This. Their record against teams with actual winning records was well under .400. And we're supposed to be optimistic that we have a contending team? Other teams have gotten better, we haven't. Some of the teams that have improved are the teams that we rolled over this year. Teams in the division have already improved.

[Schmoeman5]

38 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Did I say they were great, doing a good job or anything that has anything to do with your post.  No.  I said profit is irrelevant but some of you insist on arguing something else.  You refuse to acknowledge the point and rant about something I did not say.

Who would have guessed that it would be a bad thing to be informed?   "There is none so blind as he who will not see (Bill Withers).  Arguing there is no point in being informed ... That's pretty hard to respect.

And your answer to my point is dribble at best. Defend, and avoid. Politician or attorney speak

[Mike Sixel]

32 minutes ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

This. Their record against teams with actual winning records was well under .400. And we're supposed to be optimistic that we have a contending team? Other teams have gotten better, we haven't. Some of the teams that have improved are the teams that we rolled over this year. Teams in the division have already improved.

Supposedly the twins improved in 2023..... This stuff isn't linear. And no, I'm not arguing they are good, that's literally not the point of this post. 

[Larry Janisewski]

Love the groupings but you should have included the Milwaukee Brewers whose spend in the $115 million range and seem to win or compete for their division title almost every year.

[Major League Ready]

40 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

You're the only one refusing to do the analysis to the question only you yourself is asking. 

Do it yourself and stfu about everyone else being uninformed already. 

 

I have looked at the data over the years but I have never compiled it but have a pretty good idea what it will portray.  I am the not one of the many here that absolutely insists on a given narrative that has never been proven.   This narrative is perpetual here.  Why should it be up to me to support the narratives of TD writers with empirical data.   Again, why wouldn't you want this position you revel in to be proven? 

Surely, an article that exposed just how cheap the Pohlad's have been would be of great interest to TD readers.  Yet, the topic has never been approached in a meaningful way.   If I posted the analysis, it would be summarily rejected if the results did not fit the narrative, you so covet.  Hopefully, there is a TD writer that is interested in a factual depiction of Twins payroll spending.  

[Major League Ready]

9 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

I'm not sure the majority of posters here are "against" how Cleveland has built their teams in recent years. Personally, I think Cleveland has done a great job remaining competitive while maximizing their draft picks and making some astute trades. I wish the Twins WOULD try to be more like Cleveland. 

Cleveland and Tampa have produced considerably more WAR than the other teams in the bottom half of revenue over the past 25 years.  I think it’s fair to say most people here do not support trading away established players.  For example, Polanco last year and reports of Correa being traded received significant criticism.  Would you say more people support trading prospects than trading for prospects? 

A few years ago I was curious about the strong opinions I read here.  It made me curious but I could not find any research on roster construction.  There might be something but I could not find it so I compiled the acquisition method for every player that produced more than 1.5 WAR for every 90 win team in the bottom half of revenue since 2000.  Cleveland has not drafted all that well.  26.4% of their WAR has come from players they drafted where 44% of their WAR was produced by players that were acquired as Prospects.  Only 6.2% of free agents and traded for established players has produced almost nothing.  Would you say their methods are consistent or inconsistent with what is popular here?  

8	Cleveland Guardians	WINS	Drafted	Intl	AaP	Trade	FA
100%	Cleveland 2017	102	24.3%	19.3%	44.3%	4.3%	7.8%
100%	Cleveland 2007	96	30.5%	38.2%	31.3%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2016	94	33.1%	22.7%	44.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2019	93	34.0%	17.8%	44.1%	4.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2005	93	7.5%	21.8%	51.4%	2.5%	16.8%
100%	Cleveland 2022	92	34.2%	19.7%	46.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2013	92	14.9%	0.0%	50.1%	10.2%	24.8%
100%	Cleveland 2024	92	33.0%	23.8%	43.2%	0.0%	0.0%
	Guardians Total	82.75	26.4%	20.4%	44.4%	2.6%	6.2%

 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Cleveland and Tampa have produced considerably more WAR than the other teams in the bottom half of revenue over the past 25 years.  I think it’s fair to say most people here do not support trading away established players.  For example, Polanco last year and reports of Correa being traded received significant criticism.  Would you say more people support trading prospects than trading for prospects? 

A few years ago I was curious about the strong opinions I read here.  It made me curious but I could not find any research on roster construction.  There might be something but I could not find it so I compiled the acquisition method for every player that produced more than 1.5 WAR for every 90 win team in the bottom half of revenue since 2000.  Cleveland has not drafted all that well.  26.4% of their WAR has come from players they drafted where 44% of their WAR was produced by players that were acquired as Prospects.  Only 6.2% of free agents and traded for established players has produced almost nothing.  Would you say their methods are consistent or inconsistent with what is popular here?  

8	Cleveland Guardians	WINS	Drafted	Intl	AaP	Trade	FA
100%	Cleveland 2017	102	24.3%	19.3%	44.3%	4.3%	7.8%
100%	Cleveland 2007	96	30.5%	38.2%	31.3%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2016	94	33.1%	22.7%	44.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2019	93	34.0%	17.8%	44.1%	4.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2005	93	7.5%	21.8%	51.4%	2.5%	16.8%
100%	Cleveland 2022	92	34.2%	19.7%	46.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2013	92	14.9%	0.0%	50.1%	10.2%	24.8%
100%	Cleveland 2024	92	33.0%	23.8%	43.2%	0.0%	0.0%
	Guardians Total	82.75	26.4%	20.4%	44.4%	2.6%	6.2%

 

It's too bad they didn't deal Kepler like some of us wanted. Remember when people said he should get a QO? Hahahaha. 

[Major League Ready]

20 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's too bad they didn't deal Kepler like some of us wanted. Remember when people said he should get a QO? Hahahaha. 

I was really hoping they could pull off a Polanco and Kepler for Harry Ford + X trade.  Now, it's quite possible Seattle didn't want Kepler or were not willing to trade harry Ford but that was my wish at the time.  I think they got too cute trying to get present and future value in that deal and it backfired.  Tampa has pulled off some good present + future value trades so I am not against it but this one does not look great at the moment.

[tony&rodney]

#1. Correa? Keep him. He is our shortstop.

#2. Reduce payroll. Find the best deals out there that subtract Chris Paddack ($7.5M) and Willi Castro ($6.2M). If payroll is fine as is - keep them both.

#3. a) Bribe the Diamondbacks into trading Jordan Lawler. Who know what that takes? Duran, Castro, and K. Culpepper? b) Trade Brooks Lee for Jeferson Quero. Now the team has a catcher for the future. c) Discuss Jarren Duran with the Red Sox. No deal, no problem. d) If no Duran in LF, hand it to Emmanuel Rodriguez. e) Take a serious look at guys like Luke Keaschall and Payton Eeles in Spring Training to evaluate their abilities to function in MLB either now or in a year.

Team is better and payroll problem is solved with C4 still in place. Trust your players, especially the pitchers who will be happy to have defenders behind them like Lawler and Rodriguez.

[Linus]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Cleveland and Tampa have produced considerably more WAR than the other teams in the bottom half of revenue over the past 25 years.  I think it’s fair to say most people here do not support trading away established players.  For example, Polanco last year and reports of Correa being traded received significant criticism.  Would you say more people support trading prospects than trading for prospects? 

A few years ago I was curious about the strong opinions I read here.  It made me curious but I could not find any research on roster construction.  There might be something but I could not find it so I compiled the acquisition method for every player that produced more than 1.5 WAR for every 90 win team in the bottom half of revenue since 2000.  Cleveland has not drafted all that well.  26.4% of their WAR has come from players they drafted where 44% of their WAR was produced by players that were acquired as Prospects.  Only 6.2% of free agents and traded for established players has produced almost nothing.  Would you say their methods are consistent or inconsistent with what is popular here?  

8	Cleveland Guardians	WINS	Drafted	Intl	AaP	Trade	FA
100%	Cleveland 2017	102	24.3%	19.3%	44.3%	4.3%	7.8%
100%	Cleveland 2007	96	30.5%	38.2%	31.3%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2016	94	33.1%	22.7%	44.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2019	93	34.0%	17.8%	44.1%	4.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2005	93	7.5%	21.8%	51.4%	2.5%	16.8%
100%	Cleveland 2022	92	34.2%	19.7%	46.2%	0.0%	0.0%
100%	Cleveland 2013	92	14.9%	0.0%	50.1%	10.2%	24.8%
100%	Cleveland 2024	92	33.0%	23.8%	43.2%	0.0%	0.0%
	Guardians Total	82.75	26.4%	20.4%	44.4%	2.6%	6.2%

 

It’s not fair to say most posters say anything. The sweeping generalizations of TD posters is not useful and inaccurate. Cleveland and Tampa succeed as you pointed out but not from some secret strategy that we are against. They succeed because they make better personnel decisions. I’m all for trading any player for good value. Falvey hasn’t demonstrated that he can consistently do that. It’s fine to trade Polanco - getting nothing in return is the problem. 

[Russ]

First question should be - what does the current ownership and front office do with the continued media and fan apathy.

[Major League Ready]

13 hours ago, Linus said:

It’s not fair to say most posters say anything. The sweeping generalizations of TD posters is not useful and inaccurate. Cleveland and Tampa succeed as you pointed out but not from some secret strategy that we are against. They succeed because they make better personnel decisions. I’m all for trading any player for good value. Falvey hasn’t demonstrated that he can consistently do that. It’s fine to trade Polanco - getting nothing in return is the problem. 

Cleveland might be these least inclined of any MLB team to spend on free agents. (6.2% of WAR) and they rarely make a trade for an established player.  Less than 3% of their WAR has come from trading for established players where 44% of WAR has been produced by players acquired as prospects.  With the exception of Tampa Bay, Cleveland has also traded away more established players for prospects than any other MLB team.   Is it fair to say their practices are not consistent with what is advocated by the majority of TD posters?

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

 Is it fair to say their practices are not consistent with what is advocated by the majority of TD posters?

Not fair to me (speaking only for myself).

[Major League Ready]

9 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Not fair to me (speaking only for myself).

Is that because you are not in the majority or is it because the majority advocates very little free agent spending and virtually no trades for established players while trading established players for prospects?

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Is that because you are not in the majority or is it because the majority advocates very little free agent spending and virtually no trades for established players while trading established players for prospects?

If you read the comments, you  basically know my positions.

In any event, it is best to speak for your own voice and avoid casting another's voice. I read your posts and often find sound thought in your comments just as I also find thoughtfulness in some other's comments. I find disagreement a common factor in life. What I do not find sound is to set strong judgments against others, which is all too ironically a sort of judgment in and of itself. i apolagize for that. You be you but your best comments are when you just make your points. 

[Linus]

8 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Cleveland might be these least inclined of any MLB team to spend on free agents. (6.2% of WAR) and they rarely make a trade for an established player.  Less than 3% of their WAR has come from trading for established players where 44% of WAR has been produced by players acquired as prospects.  With the exception of Tampa Bay, Cleveland has also traded away more established players for prospects than any other MLB team.   Is it fair to say their practices are not consistent with what is advocated by the majority of TD posters?

No. There are many different opinions on this site. It’s useless to make sweeping generalizations about a large group of people. 

[Major League Ready]

26 minutes ago, Linus said:

No. There are many different opinions on this site. It’s useless to make sweeping generalizations about a large group of people. 

 

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

If you read the comments, you  basically know my positions.

In any event, it is best to speak for your own voice and avoid casting another's voice. I read your posts and often find sound thought in your comments just as I also find thoughtfulness in some other's comments. I find disagreement a common factor in life. What I do not find sound is to set strong judgments against others, which is all too ironically a sort of judgment in and of itself. i apolagize for that. You be you but your best comments are when you just make your points. 

Would it be useless or inaccurate to make a generalized statement that Twins fans would like Payroll to increase or the twins to sign Rory Sasaki?  To suggest Twins fans, including myself don't care for Cleveland's practices is not even marginally a stretch but it illustrates something most don't want to acknowledge it.  We are all very eager to criticize the organization but not so willing to acknowledge our own misconceptions.

[Linus]

14 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

 

Would it be useless or inaccurate to make a generalized statement that Twins fans would like Payroll to increase or the twins to sign Rory Sasaki?  To suggest Twins fans, including myself don't care for Cleveland's practices is not even marginally a stretch but it illustrates something most don't want to acknowledge it.  We are all very eager to criticize the organization but not so willing to acknowledge our own misconceptions.

I have no idea what you are talking about. See you later. 

[h2oface]

On 12/13/2024 at 6:23 AM, JD-TWINS said:

Comparing a Number One overall pick with Badoo seems a bit silly. Royce had a pretty bad 2 months to finish ‘24 but he had pieces of pretty good 3-4 months pieced together through a couple seasons prior.

I wasn't really comparing anybody to anybody. Just noticing that Badoo has had the same progression of so many first month to year flash in the pans from our farm system, and it carried over even on a different organization. Hell, it all is just trying to make sense of the continuing lack of a real breakout that stays broken out from our system.