Are the Twins Ready to Shake Up Their Catching Corps?

[bean5302]

21 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Ty France has indicated that he's interested in moving to catcher. His bat doesn't play at 1B anymore, but it would be fine for a catcher. I would be willing to put him in St. Paul and give him that opportunity.

Ty France is 30 years old and he has never caught a single game all the way back to high school. His only experience at "catching" is when the Padres technically designated him as their emergency catcher a few years ago. Like when the Twins designated Eduardo Escobar as their emergency catcher.

I'd imagine it'd take years for France to get up to speed, but I don't exactly see the problem with giving him a MiLB contract, except he's already had guaranteed MLB offers made to him.

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

In a perfect world they trade Jeffers - Castro - Matthews - Paddack - Henriquez to AZ for their Catcher (Moreno) and Jordan Montgomery (Twins take on $12M). AZ gets rid of a mutually bad situation with Montgomery and they get value back!

If we could land Moreno, we'd have our starting catcher. Then we could trade both Jeffers & Vazquez. But I haven't seen any indication that they'd be interested in trading him. One veteran catcher that I have my eye on is Victor Caratini (HOU). IMO he is underrated, he has very good defensive skills & his hitting has improved to above avg. He's HOU's backup catcher, but has the ability to start & has 1 year left. If we bring a very beneficial trade to Hou, they could be persuaded.

 

[RpR]

2 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Exactly this!
We have one more year to ride out the Vazquez decision we made 3 years ago. Trying to undo it now opens us up to trouble if Jeffers breaks a leg in April. 

Trying to undo it is disaster regardless of Jeffer's health.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Ty France is 30 years old and he has never caught a single game all the way back to high school. His only experience at "catching" is when the Padres technically designated him as their emergency catcher a few years ago. Like when the Twins designated Eduardo Escobar as their emergency catcher.

I'd imagine it'd take years for France to get up to speed, but I don't exactly see the problem with giving him a MiLB contract, except he's already had guaranteed MLB offers made to him.

He caught at the Padres alternate site in 2020. So probably a little more experience than Escobar, but certainly nothing useful. Trying to become an MLB catcher at the age of 30 is pretty desperate, though. His bat fell apart real fast after 2022.

[Fred]

2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Yeah, but Vazquez's framing and defense are superior to what Jeffers has shown. 

But, but, but......"framing" was the argument for signing Jason Castro. It won't be long until robo umps put those guys out of a job. (and we won't have to put up with a Angel Hernandez type any longer).

[Cory Engelhardt]

12 minutes ago, Fred said:

But, but, but......"framing" was the argument for signing Jason Castro. It won't be long until robo umps put those guys out of a job. (and we won't have to put up with a Angel Hernandez type any longer).

I know, but for today and this season that isn't a thing. That's all. 

[USNMCPO]

Is Drew Butera available?

[GNXman]

Twins will trade  Vazquez and then half way into the season Jeffers will break down and the Twins will have nothing at catcher. Then they'll wonder what happened....

[arby58]

4 hours ago, Old Crow said:

The worst catching scenario is when one catches and the other DHs.

It's not that bad. No Twins pitcher had an at bat in 2024, and they did use Jeffers as the DH in 34 games.

[Cory Engelhardt]

19 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

If this guy rates higher than Carmago, it may be an easy way to inject some catching that is ready or almost ready into the organization.  The only hitch is as a rule 5 draftee, I think that they'd have to keep him on the major league roster for the entire season or offer him back to SD correct?

Yup, that's it. So it would definitely be a gamble. 

I assume they could just trade for him if they liked him between now and the rule 5 draft. That or if they did take him in the draft, and they liked him but didn't want to keep him on the roster, they could work out a trade for him in season.

[Cory Engelhardt]

15 minutes ago, GNXman said:

Twins will trade  Vazquez and then half way into the season Jeffers will break down and the Twins will have nothing at catcher. Then they'll wonder what happened....

I also truly enjoy just planning out for the worst case scenario. Truly a joy to look at life that way :)

[Doctor Gast]

4 hours ago, Heiny said:

It's not often that a team can go through a full season with two catchers and both staying healthy.  The Twins have done it for two years in a row.  Can that last?  I wouldn't be against keeping both for 2025 for the stability.  But sooner or later they are going to have to come up with some decent catching prospects or pay for a free agent catcher again.  My preference would be to try to trade for Teel(no idea what it would take).  IMO Camargo is AAA for emergency callup only.  Time to start drafting and developing young catchers.  We drafted a couple last year.  Do the Twins feel they will someday be MLB caliber.  I am also on the list of people who think playing both Jeffers and Vasquez at the same time with one being DH is poor managing.  Neither should be DHing, especially Vasquez.  By eating Vaszuez's salary for one more year at least gives us an acceptable catching tandem for 2025 and one more year to figure something else out.  But upgrading for 2025 would be optimal if it's Vasquez they can trade.  The paltry self-imposed salary is the biggest problem.  Maybe we could get a loan from the Dodgers with deferred payments.

Here's a trade I came up with to give you an idea  https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/177002

I followed Teel since he was in college. IMO he'll be a great catcher & advocating trading for him since we didn't get him in the draft. Now BOS knows who they have & they're not giving him up. Even in a win now mode, they'll try to fill their needs via FA & trades that don't include him.

There are other trade MLB-ready prospects, there those who are blocked & those who we can offer Jeffers. Those who are blocked are (MIL) J Quero (LAD) Rushing (SEA) Ford & (BAL) Basallo. Those that'd need Jeffers in the trade is (CO) Romo & Carrigg, (CWS) E Quero & if we have a chance (BOS) Teel.

We should have been always drafting & developing catchers because they are a premium & expensive to obtain. Our catching depth is a shamble. The best avenue now is trading for one but it'll take serious trade offers. 

[DJL44]

49 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

The only hitch is as a rule 5 draftee, I think that they'd have to keep him on the major league roster for the entire season or offer him back to SD correct?

Wait until the draft is over and trade for him if he's undrafted.

[Doc Lenz]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

Trying to undo it is disaster regardless of Jeffer's health.

 

[JD-TWINS]

6 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

This might FEEL like digging to the bottom of the barrel. But the Padres left a catcher available in the rule 5 draft named Brandon Valenzuela. He played mostly at AA, and had 27 games at AAA for them this past year. His overall numbers were not strong, but he is apparently known more for his defense than his offense anyway. Fangraphs has him (as of July) as their #6 overall prospect, and MLB has him as their #12. Just thinking, if they were to move on from Vazquez (for example) I'd ALMOST rather than make a move for this guy (or take him in the rule 5 draft) compared to throwing 3 million at someone like Yan Gomes.

Maybe I'm crazy. Don't answer that.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=valenz001bra

My impression of Rule 5 is that the guy has to be on MLB roster - maybe wrong? Anyway, $2.5M is well spent v. having a guy that has 75 AAA at bats……..unimpressive AB’s as well ……..,can’t go there.

Trade for a Catcher - young guy that can play - not a high draft pick that’s “expected to pan out eventually”. Give up players to solve this - trade Jeffers to fill the young guy’s spot in trade partner organization. Pitching & an everyday player - whatever they need to piece together to bring the right guy to the Twins.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

It's not that bad. No Twins pitcher had an at bat in 2024, and they did use Jeffers as the DH in 34 games.

I think Ryan may have hit his way out of the DH opportunities after June 15. A non- issue.

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

If we could land Moreno, we'd have our starting catcher. Then we could trade both Jeffers & Vazquez. But I haven't seen any indication that they'd be interested in trading him. One veteran catcher that I have my eye on is Victor Caratini (HOU). IMO he is underrated, he has very good defensive skills & his hitting has improved to above avg. He's HOU's backup catcher, but has the ability to start & has 1 year left. If we bring a very beneficial trade to Hou, they could be persuaded.

 

They don’t have any intention of trading Moreno……that’s why you give them 5 players (3 pitchers of differing value - a solid catcher - an All-star Utility guy) & take Montgomery off their hands. They need to be enticed!

[JD-TWINS]

7 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Great write up! 
Shaking up the catching corps doesn't feel wise and doesn't feel like it should be a priority. How many other teams made it through 162 last year with their 2 primary catchers playing every game? Probably not many? I understand Vazquez isn't earning his $10M, but to spend $15M between the 2 and cover 162 decently, not spectacularly, but decently, it just seems as if we have many other areas to be concerned with. The catching corps is currently not broken, and if we move either one, we open ourselves up for trouble in my opinion.

Trade a Veteran catcher to a contender for a young guy that’s ready to play 60 games in ‘25. IMO, either Vazquez or Jeffers could catch 100 games reasonably well. OR, trade one of our Catchers, plus a couple arms for a reasonably established catcher and keep splitting duties 50/50.

[Doctor Gast]

17 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

They don’t have any intention of trading Moreno……that’s why you give them 5 players (3 pitchers of differing value - a solid catcher - an All-star Utility guy) & take Montgomery off their hands. They need to be enticed!

I like your attitude! 

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The difference between a 10M back up catcher and a 1M back up catcher tends to be negligible. Still, getting rid of Vazquez and basically doing nothing with the savings just because ownership has some magic payroll number doesn't turn me on at all.

I'm not sure why anyone wants to get rid of Jeffers though. Even if he was just average, that's more than fine with this position.

I'm also not going to assume Camargo can't cut it just because Baldelli refused to use him. Maybe he is terrible, but Baldelli ALWAYS avoids using the young players until he's no longer able to. So his lack of usage means next to nothing.

Camargo hit .212 in St Paul - he had a .290 something OBP…….he makes Vazquez’ offense look like Yogi Berra. He didn’t play because he’s not a great receiver and he can’t hit. Any sensible MLB Manager would not play him unless forced into it due to unfortunate circumstance.

The fact that the Twins have no apparent Catcher with upside in their system is hard to imagine. Olivera plays Catcher & OF……doesn’t seem to be a great option either. This is a draft and development issue……nothing to do with the Manager.

It’s a shame for sure!

I’d try to lump Jeffers in a trade with an arm or two in order to get back a solid young Catcher. Need to find a trade partner that’s competitive and would value the addition of Jeffers along with pitching g help (Paddack - Matthews - whoever)

[Althebum82]

At this time last year I had high hopes for Camargo and Cardenas, but both significantly regressed last season.  Chris Williams continues to show offensive promise but has now given up on the Twins and has chosen free agency.  He will get the obvious invite to spring training someplace, but he has yet to show himself worthy of being trusted defensively at the big league level during games that count.

It is hard for me to get excited about trade scenarios for Vazquez.  Nobody else is going to want to pay him what the Twins are.  

[nclahammer]

I like Jair Camargo.  I feel he still has some potential to untap.  He had a few injuries last season that slowed him down, but two years ago had a terrific season in St. Paul (21 HRs.)

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Camargo hit .212 in St Paul - he had a .290 something OBP…….he makes Vazquez’ offense look like Yogi Berra. He didn’t play because he’s not a great receiver and he can’t hit. Any sensible MLB Manager would not play him unless forced into it due to unfortunate circumstance.

Why is he still on the 40 man? Why was he ever on the 26 man? 

.575 OPS is a bar so low to clear that it is almost under ground. 

[Doctor Gast]

On 12/5/2024 at 10:14 AM, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Upgrading at Catcher is should be far down the list of priorities for the Twins this offseason.  If something falls into their laps, then they would take a look, but this is probably a non-starter.

They will scrap-heap another 4A catcher or two this offseason for insurance.

We have had a problem at catching since '22 Jeffers's trade value bottomed out, We put a Band-Aid on it '23 where Jeffers was put in a supportive role & he excelled & his trade value skyrocketed. In '24 he had an equal tandem role & his production stalled & dipped greatly as his trade value. In '25 if Jeffers is put in a primary role his trade value with his production will bottom out, if put in an equal tandem role his trade value will slightly dip to where he is right now. Jeffers isn't a starting catcher now or ever, we need a starting catcher now & in the future. In '23 was the best time to trade Jeffers & even right now we can still land a future starting catcher with Jeffers in conjunction with others in trade, in the future I doubt it. It also takes time for a catcher to settle in under normal situations. If we wait for it to get really bad it makes it that much worse to break in a new catcher. Very soon Jeffers will want an exorbitant amount to be extended for being a backup catcher. I hope this FO isn't stupid enough to do that. Jeffers has no future here so why wait?