Is José Miranda a Viable Primary First Baseman in 2025?

[Fatbat]

3 minutes ago, RpR said:

Mirand was better at third than Lewis and had a better bat than Lewis; leave him at third, don't screw him up, or trade him while he has value.

How does moving him from 3rd to 1st screw him up?  

[RpR]

28 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

How does moving him from 3rd to 1st screw him up?  

He is not really good at Third but is just plain BAD at First.

His range is a good amount below league average.

He played 252 games at 3rd in the minor and 47 games at 1st in the minors for a reason.

You do not just jack people around the field unless you want to screw up their ability to be the best they can any where.

[Fatbat]

14 minutes ago, RpR said:

He is not really good at Third but is just plain BAD at First.

His range is a good amount below league average.

He played 252 games at 3rd in the minor and 47 games at 1st in the minors for a reason.

You do not just jack people around the field unless you want to screw up their ability to be the best they can any where.

Positive WAR is really all the matters. 

[dxpavelka]

16 hours ago, rv78 said:

The time is now for some serious thought on IF this team can make the leap to being a contender and not a pretender. In the 8 years under the Falvine regime they have been pretenders. If you look at the players at every fielding position you can make an argument that that specific player just isn't good enough, for some reason or another. Whether it is injury prone, defensive liability, can't hit consistantly or hit against the splits, strikes out too much, blah blah blah, we could go on and on....    Some of you might say Correa, but look at his last 2 seasons. Didn't hit worth a lick in 2023 and only played half a season in 2024. Buxton is an injury waiting to happen everytime he takes the field. Lewis is injury prone and completely fell apart down the stretch in 2024. Miranda isn't skilled enough to be considered a fulltime 3rd baseman, 1st baseman or any baseman. Julien looks to be a AAAA player. Lee hasn't played enough to know even remotely what you have there yet. Larnach and Wallner each have about 2 part-time seasons to look at and while they look to be solid they are streaky and not defensive standouts either. So where do you upgrade, IF that's even an option due to payroll? Are any of these players, quality wise, capable of helping this team get to the next level? Almost everyone is talked about on this site as a problem in one way or another. It is WAY past time to play the young guys consistantly everyday and see what you have. No more Margots, Gallos, Santanas, Farmers, ect, ect. That way has PROVEN not to work. Find out what you have and THEN make moves to correspond accordingly. If Miranda isn't capable of playing 1B, 3B or being a fulltime DH then trade him. The same can be said for any other young player on the major league roster. But first and foremost, the FO and Rocco have to quit trying to make these players be something that they are not, along with playing them where it is basically a new position....  Expecting them to learn the position, playing there.....part-time. They should only be using them where they KNOW it will work..... and they shouldn't be finding that out at the major league level.

Good luck with that.  There will ALWAYS be Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers.  They may have different names but they will always be there.  Those different names may include Julien & Miranda.

[rv78]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

Good luck with that.  There will ALWAYS be Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers.  They may have different names but they will always be there.  Those different names may include Julien & Miranda.

You missed the point. I'm fine with them using a Julien or Miranda because they are players in-house. Stop spending money to bring in NEW players like Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers. We have them already.

[JD-TWINS]

18 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

The Orioles are retaining O'Hearn.

Miranda has thus far been more effective against right handed pitchers and thus far has been a bad short side platoon option. 

I agree on the reverse split comment with Miranda. My thinking is play him 80-90% of the time at 1B and sign Santana to bat right handed principally. He is certainly a good late inning defensive replacement - he’d get a bunch of Margot’s RH pinch hitting opportunities - he can play 10-20% of the time v. RH pitching, as needed…..25% of time there are lefty starters. If Miranda gets hurt - the spot is covered. Santana starts 35% of the time and is available often off the bench. Certainly an approach - maybe not ideal but a conservative path forward for ‘25.

[JD-TWINS]

7 minutes ago, rv78 said:

You missed the point. I'm fine with them using a Julien or Miranda because they are players in-house. Stop spending money to bring in NEW players like Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers. We have them already.

We don’t have a 23 HR - 71 RBI - gold glove 1B in house……..agree on the others. To me, Santana is worth signing to play v. LH starters - pinch hit against LH relievers - play 1B regularly after 7th inning with a lead……it would relieve much of the anxiety of having Miranda there to take the most reps in ‘25.

[Riverbrian]

5 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I agree on the reverse split comment with Miranda. My thinking is play him 80-90% of the time at 1B and sign Santana to bat right handed principally. He is certainly a good late inning defensive replacement - he’d get a bunch of Margot’s RH pinch hitting opportunities - he can play 10-20% of the time v. RH pitching, as needed…..25% of time there are lefty starters. If Miranda gets hurt - the spot is covered. Santana starts 35% of the time and is available often off the bench. Certainly an approach - maybe not ideal but a conservative path forward for ‘25.

Santana was a decent ball player last year. I wasn't very excited about his addition last year while still OK with it. However, he did a decent job... let's say slightly above average job which is much better then the below average play we got from others on the roster.  

Am I ok with another year of Santana... Yeah I am... but only kind of OK with it. His numbers certainly fit the role you have planned for him. But... I just don't see him remaining in that role and if he stays healthy his utilization would increase significantly and he will just be another kick the can down the road year of addressing the position longer term.    

With the assumed financial constraints. This off-season is going to be either:

Insane with lots of player movement via trade as the roster is completely retooled or this off-season is going to be as boring as it could possibly get with someone like Santana being the most exciting thing that happens. I don't see a lot of middle ground. 

 

[rv78]

37 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

We don’t have a 23 HR - 71 RBI - gold glove 1B in house……..agree on the others. To me, Santana is worth signing to play v. LH starters - pinch hit against LH relievers - play 1B regularly after 7th inning with a lead……it would relieve much of the anxiety of having Miranda there to take the most reps in ‘25.

If Miranda would get the same amount of playing time at 1B as Santana did in 2024 he could very easily be a 23 HR, 71 RBI guy at 1B. The only difference would be the defense. The scenario you present is not going to take the team to the next level. It will be rinse and repeat 2024. and we would be another season down the road, not knowing if Miranda is a viable option to play 1B every day. 

[Otaknam]

If Miranda at first is their plan for 2025, then my conclusion is ownership is unwilling to improve the team. Miranda was a non factor in the second half of the season, and his defense is below average at best. The other issue is whether they just depend on young starters like Festa, Mathews, and minor league starters to fill out the rotation, which is the likely scenario. If that’s the direction, they might as well try to find a trade partner for Correa and admit they are in rebuilding mode.

[jorgenswest]

Given their self imposed budget constraints, I think the Twins have to bet on the upside of their younger, controllable and inexpensive players to start the season. The alternative is to bet on getting one more year out of an inexpensive aging veteran who we know they aren’t going to release if they struggle. I would go with Miranda over the alternative.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, rv78 said:

You missed the point. I'm fine with them using a Julien or Miranda because they are players in-house. Stop spending money to bring in NEW players like Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers. We have them already.

No we don't which is why we have/had Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers.

All brought in for fielding skills, only Margot was a bit of a dud.

[rv78]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

No we don't which is why we have/had Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers.

All brought in for fielding skills, only Margot was a bit of a dud.

Martin was better than Margot. Wallner was better than Gallo, This year, just about everyone was better than Farmer. Of the 4, Santana is the only one who might have been the better choice yet Miranda isn't given the chance to be an everyday 1B. So the Twins learned nothing about that possibility in 2024 for 2025 and beyond. Offensively he is just as capable of putting up 2024 Santana type numbers. Santana helped the Twins win.... ???? Nothing. Margot helped the Twins win... Nothing. Gallo helped the Twins win... Nothing. Adding 1 year veteran players to push a team over the hump is fine. I have no problem with that, but it's first going to take a solid core at the rest of the postitions to be in that situation and the Twins aren't anywhere close to that yet. The core is going to come from within. Adding veterans and pushing the young players back year after year gets you exactly where they are now. Nowhere, with little to no chance to win or be a serious contender. If you see it differently, then show me how what they have done in the 8 year period of the Falvine regime, that has gotten them anything to brag about. Breaking a playoff losing streak doesn't do it for me. Do you seriously see a Championship in the next 8 years with the way Falvey brings in washed up veterans and injured pitchers? Or the way Rocco manages lineups, pitchers, bullpens, games? It's a joke.

[stringer bell]

Miranda worked hard and improved as a fielder at third. Many of those improvements would/will show at first base. He doesn’t have great hands, good range or a strong throwing arm, so he probably will never improve beyond adequate at any defensive position, but adequate defense plus a 130 wRC would be fine.

I guess Santana will be looking for a pretty big raise after a successful offensive season coupled with recognition for his defense. He might price himself out of the Twins market and will be looking to be what he’s always been—a full time regular player. It’s a close call, but I’d rather bet on Miranda at $800K than Santana at $10M in his age-39 year. 

[Fatbat]

6 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Miranda worked hard and improved as a fielder at third. Many of those improvements would/will show at first base. He doesn’t have great hands, good range or a strong throwing arm, so he probably will never improve beyond adequate at any defensive position, but adequate defense plus a 130 wRC would be fine.

I guess Santana will be looking for a pretty big raise after a successful offensive season coupled with recognition for his defense. He might price himself out of the Twins market and will be looking to be what he’s always been—a full time regular player. It’s a close call, but I’d rather bet on Miranda at $800K than Santana at $10M in his age-39 year. 

Miranda will likely win a gold glove at 36 or 37🤣

[RpR]

2 hours ago, rv78 said:

Martin was better than Margot. Wallner was better than Gallo, This year, just about everyone was better than Farmer. Of the 4, Santana is the only one who might have been the better choice yet Miranda isn't given the chance to be an everyday 1B.

Gallo was brought in for, and started the majority of his games at 1st base, which he did very well.

 Left Field which they both played there was little difference.

Farmer was a life saver at 2nd base , saving us from herky-jerkey Julien, and did well after coming of off IL this year.

Martin better than Margot, LOL, BS.

Martin on top, although it did take till Sept . for Margot to remember how to field like he used to.

 

[Fatbat]

3 minutes ago, RpR said:

Gallo was brought in for, and started the majority of his games at 1st base, which he very well.

 Left Field which they both played there was little difference.

Farmer was a life saver at 2nd base , saving us from herky-jerkey Julien, and did well after coming of off IL this year.

Martin better than Margot, LOL, BS.

Martin on top, although it did take till Sept . for Margot to remember how to field like he used to.

 

Margot was 0-1000 in pinch hitting situations and Gallo struck out swinging twice in every at bat with RISP. They were both horrible signings. 

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, rv78 said:

So the Twins learned nothing about that possibility in 2024 for 2025 and beyond.

This is a huge issue. That gets overlooked by way too many fans. 

The Twins have to develop talent. Have to... unequivocally have to. There is absolutely no debate... they have to. 

Every Margot, Farmer, Kepler, Gallo, Vazquez, Morrison that they bring in that struggles. Makes it a little bit harder to develop talent. Every Margot, Farmer, Kepler, Gallo, Vazquez, Morrison that they bring in that is allowed to keep struggling through the entire season... makes it even harder still to develop talent.

Every left handed bat that isn't allowed to face left handers makes it harder still to develop talent. Every young right handed player that they short side platoon makes it harder still to develop talent. 

If the Twins fail to develop talent... We all know that we won't be signing an expensive free agent to fill that undeveloped space. 

The Twins are not going to sign a Freddie Freeman. We all know this. They have to develop a Freddie Freeman.  That's the only way that we will have a Freddie Freeman on our roster.

It's the only way that the Twins can remain at the very least competitive year after year.

Buxton, Correa, Lewis and the gang of role players isn't going to work. 

I support this front office... That will support will stop quickly when I feel that development has stalled. I like what I'm seeing from the incoming arms. On the offensive side of the coin... I am getting close to feeling that we may need to be a patchwork of cheap vets to get through every season going forward.

I will get a little bit closer to support losing doubt every time the expiring contract vet with the .600 OPS strolls to the plate in August with no competition allowed for his spot.

I will keep getting closer to not trusting our development every time Larnach is pinch hit for because some guy named Daniel Lynch IV entered the game in the 4th inning just so (insert cheap vet here) can face Erceg in the ninth.

I will get a little bit closer to being ready for a change at the top because of development issue perception every time a team with a .623 OPS in September is paralyzed with a stubborn willingness to go down with that ship instead of getting into that unproven player dingy hanging from the side of the roster. 

I will get a little bit closer to pulling my support any time that I don't feel there is competition for playing time with the younger player getting the short end of that stick.  

 

[DJL44]

5 hours ago, Otaknam said:

Miranda was a non factor in the second half of the season

On offense, Santana was a non-factor except for June. 961 OPS in June and .725 OPS after that month. If you want a .725 OPS and great defense sign a utility infielder.

[dxpavelka]

22 hours ago, rv78 said:

You missed the point. I'm fine with them using a Julien or Miranda because they are players in-house. Stop spending money to bring in NEW players like Margots, Gallos, Santanas & Farmers. We have them already.

i tend to agree.  However, six weeks in to 2023 I was ready to jettison Solano because he had 5 RBI in almost two months.  From that point on, they don't win the division without him.  They are a sub-.500 team without Santana last year. Not to mention Castro.  The only reason he's not on the previous list is because he balled out.

[RpR]

22 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

This is a huge issue. That gets overlooked by way too many fans. 

The Twins have to develop talent. Have to... unequivocally have to. There is absolutely no debate... they have to. 

Every Margot, Farmer, Kepler, Gallo, Vazquez, Morrison that they bring in that struggles. Makes it a little bit harder to develop talent. Every Margot, Farmer, Kepler, Gallo, Vazquez, Morrison that they bring in that is allowed to keep struggling through the entire season... makes it even harder still to develop talent.

 

 

The minors are for developing players , not the majors.

Every Rooker, Celestino, Gordon, Palacios, Blankenhorn that they bring in that is allowed to keep struggling through the entire season is the reason Margot, Farmer, Gallo and Vazquez are an absolute neccessity.

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, RpR said:

Every Rooker, Celestino, Gordon, Palacios, Blankenhorn that they bring in that is allowed to keep struggling through the entire season is the reason Margot, Farmer, Gallo and Vazquez are an absolute neccessity.

Washed up veterans just cost more than struggling rookies. They don't win you any more games.

[RpR]

46 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Washed up veterans just cost more than struggling rookies. They don't win you any more games.

Twins went to the Post Season last year, with an infield and out fields of rookies this year they collapsed so your statement  is simply false.

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, RpR said:

The minors are for developing players , not the majors.

Every Rooker, Celestino, Gordon, Palacios, Blankenhorn that they bring in that is allowed to keep struggling through the entire season is the reason Margot, Farmer, Gallo and Vazquez are an absolute neccessity.

No... Not true at all. Not even close. Players with options who struggle are sent down. Some are even sent down if they did not struggle.

If they are not sent down... Celestino was someone who hung around while struggling. The only one of the group you list who got an extended run while struggling. It was because the injured list was full of the guys that you like.   

The minors are indeed for developing players. However... There is a clock on that. Once they hit the 40 man and... eventually the players that you want to keep will have to be added to the 40 man. Clubs can't just hold players in the minors forever. Once they hit the 40 man... they will need that major league development... but... what they really need is the opportunity to compete. A chance to be just as good or better than that Vet who can't be sent down and hitting .200. 

Then once you develop a player and you pay him the major league minimum... instead of 4 million here and 4 million there and 4 more million over here and 4 more million over there. You have some money left over that you can spend on a player that has actual game changing ability. 

 

  

[RpR]

The point of te game, especially for the Twins now, is to win now, to bring in fans, not become a crap-shoot that comes up  craps more often than not.

IF the Twins were like Texas and won the World Series, fans would be happy and the FO could be a extended Minor League team as the fans would be happy and show up for the next season BECAUSE they won big in the Post Season.

A team full of wannabes, or veterans that are here today and gone tomorrow,  give the fans no one  to be come attached to; Fans DO go to see their favorite player , play.

Right now  Buxton and Correa, (Santana , if he stays, and maybe Castro) will be the only ones most fans can relate to; if Kepler leaves and the field become musical chairs,  that is NOT going to increase fan atendance.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

Twins went to the Post Season last year, with an infield and out fields of rookies this year they collapsed so your statement  is simply false.

Margot, Farmer and Vazquez (plus Thielbar, Jackson and Okert) were on this year's team and they all contributed to missing the playoffs. The only rookie in the outfield was Austin Martin and he only played half the season. The infield rookies were Royce Lewis (he was injured half the year) and Brooks Lee (only played 50 games). Woods-Richardson was great in the rotation as a rookie as was Sands in the bullpen. Your narrative does not match the data.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

Right now  Buxton and Correa, (Santana , if he stays, and maybe Castro) will be the only ones most fans can relate to; if Kepler leaves and the field become musical chairs,  that is NOT going to increase fan atendance.

Wallner is from here. Some of the fans are literally related to him.

[Fatbat]

Since the twins have a core and more core players close to mlb, it should not be in the business plan to pay 4-11 M to a slightly positive WAR and ops+ of 97 - 107.  
SPEND real money/assets on an ACE pitcher or a 2-4 WAR guy.  Fill in with more young guys as needed but don’t waste 11M on Gallo or MAT. 

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

The point of te game, especially for the Twins now, is to win now, to bring in fans, not become a crap-shoot that comes up  craps more often than not.

IF the Twins were like Texas and won the World Series, fans would be happy and the FO could be a extended Minor League team as the fans would be happy and show up for the next season BECAUSE they won big in the Post Season.

A team full of wannabes, or veterans that are here today and gone tomorrow,  give the fans no one and to be come attached to; Fans DO go to see their favorite player , play.

Right now  Buxton and Correa, (Santana , if he stays, and maybe Castro) will be the only ones most fans can relate to; if Kepler leaves and the field become musical chairs,  that is NOT going to increase fan atendance.

The Math is pretty easy.

If the Twins spend around 130 Million a Year. 

If you forget about the 40 man for simplification and just focus on 26 roster spots. 

130 Million divided by 6 is 5 Million. 

For each roster spot you can spend an average of 5 million dollars. You can fill the team with Santana's and Chris Paddacks at 5 million per. 

But... But... If you want to roster upper level veterans like Correa, Lopez, Buxton and Vazquez.

That's about 76 million on those 4 players. 

130 Million minus 76 million = 54 Million

26 players minus 4 players = 22

54 million divided by 22 = 2.45 million

That's it... You have 22 spots to staff at an average of 2.45 million. 

2.45 million will buy you crap out of the veteran pile. It will buy you a team full of Michael Tonkin types. 

Now factor in the Arb Eligible Guys - No longer rookies but guys who have shown a little something. We have 11 of those and they will cost about 33.3 million this year.  

54 million minus 33.3 million = 20.7 million

22 spots minus 11

Now you have 11 spots to fill with 20.7 left and you are down to 1.88 million per. 

Next time you want to complain about rookies. Do the Math. 

It shouldn't take someone very long to realize that not only are rookies making the minimum about the only thing you can do... but perhaps the most important thing you do. Instead of complaining about them over and over again... I take the opposite approach... I full throatedly cheer them on because I've done the math and I know without a shadow of a doubt... those young players are the only thing that can save us.  

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

The Math is pretty easy.

If the Twins spend around 130 Million a Year. 

If you forget about the 40 man for simplification and just focus on 26 roster spots. 

130 Million divided by 6 is 5 Million. 

For each roster spot you can spend an average of 5 million dollars. You can fill the team with Santana's and Chris Paddacks at 5 million per. 

But... But... If you want to roster upper level veterans like Correa, Lopez, Buxton and Vazquez.

That's about 76 million on those 4 players. 

130 Million minus 76 million = 54 Million

26 players minus 4 players = 22

54 million divided by 22 = 2.45 million

That's it... You have 22 spots to staff at an average of 2.45 million. 

2.45 million will buy you crap out of the veteran pile. It will buy you a team full of Michael Tonkin types. 

Now factor in the Arb Eligible Guys - No longer rookies but guys who have shown a little something. We have 11 of those and they will cost about 33.3 million this year.  

54 million minus 33.3 million = 20.7 million

22 spots minus 11

Now you have 11 spots to fill with 20.7 left and you are down to 1.88 million per. 

Next time you want to complain about rookies. Do the Math. 

It shouldn't take someone very long to realize that not only are rookies making the minimum about the only thing you can do... but the perhaps the most important thing you do. Instead of complaining about them over and over again... I take the opposite approach... I full throatedly cheer them on because I've done the math and I know without a shadow of a doubt... those young players are the only thing that can save us.  

 

 

I don't know why anyone bothers.....