Make It Official! Twins 3, Astros 2: It's Christian Vázquez's World, We're All Just Living In It

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

I'd buy that, except he entered the game to replace Farmer. 

So why not start him? Or why Farmer for Correa initially?

He was obviously able to play.

I am fine with them being cautious with their star and having him sit to start the game. It's fine if you don't care, but it still was a reasonable thing to do. But using Farmer instead? Farmer on the roster is a whole different discussion. And one we'd probably agree on.

[Squirrel]

48 minutes ago, GCTF said:

Is anyone else at the point when you see SWR you just read it to yourself as swur?

Lol ... no ... but it's okay if you do

[Mortimerkenny21]

4 hours ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

Lee's throw on the run to get Dubon by 15 feet on a bunt was really impressive.

That was an absolute joy to watch! Runner didn't even have a chance on the bunt, it looked pretty slick! Impressive start by B. Lee in the Bigs!

And Vazquez, good for him and I bet a good confidence booster after a rough start swinging the bat this season. Him and the whole team were having a blast after the walk off blast!

[insagt1]

IMO, Lopez is key to 2nd half success or failure. We got him to be a stopper of sorts or at least a #2 or #3 starter. He has been pretty 'off' all season. A couple of good outings sandwiched in between far too many real clunkers. He needs to be why we traded for him. And its not that he is pitching into bad luck or no run support. He has been just plain ineffective in too many starts.

Get him fixed and I have to like Twins chances of maybe chasing down Cleveland.

[chpettit19]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree with you that Rocco seems much less concerned with right against right but then again... he doesn't have a choice on that front because he has 7 pure right handers currently on the roster. 8 of them if Royce Lewis was still on the 26 Man and Lee in AAA. 

You are right... Castro (or Santana) is the obvious choice to turn into a short sider if Julien replaced Farmer on the roster. 

Let's forget Julien for the moment because the more immediate interesting question is this:

What would Rocco and the front office do when/if: 

A. The team remains healthy when Lewis comes back.

B. Brooks Lee continues hitting... let's say he has an OPS over .900 when Lewis returns. 

Who goes to make room? Farmer cut? Larnach sent down?

Who plays 2B? Lee? Lewis? Castro? 

 

 

 

What will they do when Martin comes back? Lewis is obviously not going to AAA, but should Martin have to? Or should Martin be the one who comes back after the ASB and sends Farmer to the DFA line? The FO is going to have to make a decision sooner or later.

There's no way that Farmer can be part of their playoff plans at this point. And if that's true, the "2nd half," and August especially, need to be when they start making decisions based on October and not the 162 game marathon. Decision day is coming. And August 1 should be the latest they set the date for it. Either Farmer turns on the flame thrower the rest of July or August 1 needs to be when he says goodbye.

They seem to have the same general idea about things as they tend to give vets through July to figure it out and then start shaping their bullpen and lineup around who's earned it. Will be interesting to see if they're willing to cut bait with a "good clubhouse leader" or if we start seeing the IL be used more for what some would say are minor "injuries."

[Riverbrian]

25 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

What will they do when Martin comes back? Lewis is obviously not going to AAA, but should Martin have to? Or should Martin be the one who comes back after the ASB and sends Farmer to the DFA line? The FO is going to have to make a decision sooner or later.

There's no way that Farmer can be part of their playoff plans at this point. And if that's true, the "2nd half," and August especially, need to be when they start making decisions based on October and not the 162 game marathon. Decision day is coming. And August 1 should be the latest they set the date for it. Either Farmer turns on the flame thrower the rest of July or August 1 needs to be when he says goodbye.

They seem to have the same general idea about things as they tend to give vets through July to figure it out and then start shaping their bullpen and lineup around who's earned it. Will be interesting to see if they're willing to cut bait with a "good clubhouse leader" or if we start seeing the IL be used more for what some would say are minor "injuries."

And Kirilloff? What do they do with him. Farmer not on the roster would have to be a complication to Kirilloff reporting to Target field when he is ready because Kirilloff would require a short side handcuff and if you get rid of Farmer... Who is it? 

Martin has to report to St. Paul when he comes off the IL if everyone is healthy because if Martin replaces Farmer. Martin is now a young moldable rookie getting fed short side scraps. That would make me cry. 

Farmer is a major complication to the Twins left right way of life. 

If Farmer is on the roster on August 1st... It causes a major complication because in order to justify his roster space... he HAS TO PLAY against left handed starters and we currently are overstocked with players who stand in the right handed batters box. Farmer is on the bottom of the pile. A better hitter in the right handed batters box will have to rest to play Farmer unless the Twins purposely lessen that right handed batters box pile by removing a better player than Farmer is. If Farmer also sits against left handers because you have 9 players who are playing better standing in the right handed batters box. He serves no purpose.  

Damned if you do... Damned if you don't. Farmer is a major complication to the Twins chosen way of life. 

 

 

[Whitey333]

So why bring up Wallner if Rocco is just going to replace him with a right handed batter like Margo?  Wallner deserves the chance to hit against lefties once in a while.  So does Larnach.  To send Margo up there with his automatic out, 0 for like 22 pinch hitting, does Larnach no good if he doesn't at least get the chance to bat for himself.  I think he's only had 8 at bats against lefties all year.  How can you make a judgement on that in such limited chances?  It's not only unfair it's unprofessional.  Margo hasn't ad a hit pinch hitting ALL YEAR.  That's why it's hard to support Rocco wholeheartedly.  He's good with analytics to a fault.  Yes some common sense baseball instincts would help.  Not starting Miranda was a  joke.  If you felt the need to give him a rest why didn't he wait until Chicago?  He had people in the stands paying ridiculous prices to watch MLB.  MIRANDA, not you Rocco, was tye biggest story in MLB.  And you rest like him, at home?  No feel for the game and hometown fans at all.

[Mike Sixel]

41 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

And Kirilloff? What do they do with him. Farmer not on the roster would have to be a complication to Kirilloff reporting to Target field when he is ready because Kirilloff would require a short side handcuff and if you get rid of Farmer... Who is it? 

Martin has to report to St. Paul when he comes off the IL if everyone is healthy because if Martin replaces Farmer. Martin is now a young moldable rookie getting fed short side scraps. That would make me cry. 

Farmer is a major complication to the Twins left right way of life. 

If Farmer is on the roster on August 1st... It causes a major complication because in order to justify his roster space... he HAS TO PLAY against left handed starters and we currently are overstocked with players who stand in the right handed batters box. Farmer is on the bottom of the pile. A better hitter in the right handed batters box will have to rest to play Farmer unless the Twins purposely lessen that right handed batters box pile by removing a better player than Farmer is. If Farmer also sits against left handers because you have 9 players who are playing better standing in the right handed batters box. He serves no purpose.  

Damned if you do... Damned if you don't. Farmer is a major complication to the Twins chosen way of life. 

 

 

Martin isn't exactly young, and he can sit and play. I'd rather he be in MN, helping them, than sitting in St. P doing nothing to help them. Either field the best players, or give up.

[IaBeanCounter]

Have a question on WAR for Vazquez.  He basically won the game yesterday with 3 RBIs, all of the Twins runs.  How much did his WAR change?  I think it should have increased by at least .5.  JMHO

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, IaBeanCounter said:

Have a question on WAR for Vazquez.  He basically won the game yesterday with 3 RBIs, all of the Twins runs.  How much did his WAR change?  I think it should have increased by at least .5.  JMHO

that's not WAR, that's WPA. 

[IndianaTwin]

21 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I never priced FUBO so I'm not sure. 

Those cables, along with the servers, switchers, software, power system, cooling system, networking, etc. etc. 

It only cost me about 64 grand since I did the work myself.

Well worth it because I'm watching the games for free. 

As opposed to about 48 grand if you’d hired it done. That’s generally my experience. 
 

A few years ago, my father-in-law was finishing a roofing project. I asked how long it would take. He said, “Another two hours.” Probably about right for him by himself, but with my help, we got it done in three. 

[IaBeanCounter]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

that's not WAR, that's WPA. 

WAR wins above replacement.  My opinion was that Vaz provided the offense to get the win that a replacement player would not have.  He only drove in 3 runs so the pitching and defense was needed for the win.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, IaBeanCounter said:

WAR wins above replacement.  My opinion was that Vaz provided the offense to get the win that a replacement player would not have.  He only drove in 3 runs so the pitching and defense was needed for the win.

I mean, that's now what WAR measures. That's what WPA measures....you can want a stat to mean something it doesn't mean, but I'm not sure why.....not in good faith.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, IndianaTwin said:

As opposed to about 48 grand if you’d hired it done. That’s generally my experience. 
 

A few years ago, my father-in-law was finishing a roofing project. I asked how long it would take. He said, “Another two hours.” Probably about right for him by himself, but with my help, we got it done in three. 

The servers I am using are a little more expensive. That's because they actually serve. 

Randomly while watching the Twins game.

They will fire tennis balls at me. 

You can't get that for 48 grand. 

[singlesoverwalks]

4 hours ago, IaBeanCounter said:

Have a question on WAR for Vazquez.  He basically won the game yesterday with 3 RBIs, all of the Twins runs.  How much did his WAR change?  I think it should have increased by at least .5.  JMHO

One of the critiques of WAR is that it doesn't take the game situation into account. That is, Vásquez's home run last night was worth just as much as if he'd hit it while losing 10-0. This critique comes from none other than Bill James. WAR is hegemonic right now - people on online message boards will attack you if you question it. But you do should question that part.

[jorgenswest]

12 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree with you that Rocco seems much less concerned with right against right but then again... he doesn't have a choice on that front because he has 7 pure right handers currently on the roster. 8 of them if Royce Lewis was still on the 26 Man and Lee in AAA. 

You are right... Castro (or Santana) is the obvious choice to turn into a short sider if Julien replaced Farmer on the roster. 

Let's forget Julien for the moment because the more immediate interesting question is this:

What would Rocco and the front office do when/if: 

A. The team remains healthy when Lewis comes back.

B. Brooks Lee continues hitting... let's say he has an OPS over .900 when Lewis returns. 

Who goes to make room? Farmer cut? Larnach sent down?

Who plays 2B? Lee? Lewis? Castro? 

 

 

 

Lewis isn’t likely returning before the deadline and the current administration has DFA’d veterans approaching the deadline. Smith and Duffey combined for 6.3 million when they were let go justafter the deadline in 2022. Parker was DFA’d on July 23. I think letting go of Farmer is possible upon Lewis’ return.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, singlesoverwalks said:

One of the critiques of WAR is that it doesn't take the game situation into account. That is, Vásquez's home run last night was worth just as much as if he'd hit it while losing 10-0. This critique comes from none other than Bill James. WAR is hegemonic right now - people on online message boards will attack you if you question it. But you do should question that part.

Who's attacking anyone? Y'all are asking war to be wpa....

Batting average doesn't take game situations into account. Era doesn't. Should we throw those out?

[USAFChief]

6 hours ago, IaBeanCounter said:

Have a question on WAR for Vazquez.  He basically won the game yesterday with 3 RBIs, all of the Twins runs.  How much did his WAR change?  I think it should have increased by at least .5.  JMHO

Neither version of WAR considers RBI, for one thing.

[ashbury]

14 hours ago, GCTF said:

Is anyone else at the point when you see SWR you just read it to yourself as swur?

An interesting question you pose, Guctaf.  😀

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Lewis isn’t likely returning before the deadline and the current administration has DFA’d veterans approaching the deadline. Smith and Duffey combined for 6.3 million when they were let go justafter the deadline in 2022. Parker was DFA’d on July 23. I think letting go of Farmer is possible upon Lewis’ return.

There is some precedence. They have but they usually have to over fill the bath tub first before they let water hit the floor. Lopez and Fulmer were acquired to cause roster space decisions. Cano and Hamilton AAA water was not let into the bath tub. 

I think Lee could force Farmer off the roster but Blake Parker making room for Devin Smeltzer remains an exception. 

Lewis out until August? You are usually right on most things. I hope you are wrong on that one. 

 

 

[singlesoverwalks]

14 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Who's attacking anyone? Y'all are asking war to be wpa....

Batting average doesn't take game situations into account. Era doesn't. Should we throw those out?

I think the problem is the branding. WAR stands for wins above replacement. It claims to quantify how many wins the player would add to your team's record. But I don't see how you can ignore game situations in a statistic that makes that claim. If it were just branded as a composite of different averages - like Ultimate Player Rater or something like that - it would be easier to stomach. I don't buy the claim that it actually tells me how many wins a player would add at all.

(As for WPA, I don't think it does that either. It's too situational and luck-based. It also ignores fielding. There should be a compromise between the two statistics.)