Can we shut down the pipeline nonsense?

[jorgenswest]

Somehow the phrase pitching pipeline got tied to Falvey and Levine. I went to their introductory news conference. Falvey talked about pitching.

He spoke about the need to explore every avenue.

Quote

“With pitching, I think you want to explore every avenue and opportunity to add talent,” Falvey said. “Whether that’s being opportunistic in the free agent market, or through trades, or through unique development philosophies, which I think are things that we will apply moving forward, there’s no one way to attack that. This year’s free agent market is a little lean on the pitching side, so I think we have to explore every opportunity that we have to develop the players we have internally, and figure out what it is that we need to do to develop the strengths into useful pieces at the major league level.”

I think we have seen them add pitching through those various avenues.
 

He spoke about the need to be cohesive and collaborative throughout the system.

Quote

“We will commit to being collaborative in our approach to pitching development. It’s something I feel very strongly about. Utilizing different resources to help us develop the current pitchers that are on the staff and the players coming up through the minor leagues. We wouldn’t shut out any avenue to acquire or develop a player, and I expect that will be a slight change from how we’ve operated here, but I look forward to leading that.”

I believe they are consistent in their approach throughout the system.

He spoke about identifying and pursuing top performing people.

Quote

“The goal here is straightforward and measurable,”Falvey said. “It’s to build a sustainable and championship-caliber team and organization that Twins fans across Twins Territory will be proud of. Thad and I know there are no shortcuts to getting there. We intend to relentlessly identify, pursue and advance top-performing people, cultivate world-class process and build a culture that’s collaborative and transparent to achieve our goals.”

I think we have seen some quality pitching coaches enter this organization.

They entered this organization with a pitching throughout the system that did not miss bats. They took on a Jose Berrios that was 3-7 though 14 starts with an 8.03 ERA. He immediately became a very good starter. Pipeline or not… why does it matter?

Fast forward to 2024 and they are number one in K/9 and it really isn’t very close. They pair that with the third lowest BB/9. They have done this without spending significant free agent dollars on pitching. The phrase “pitching pipeline” seems to be a moving target impossible to define. Let’s get rid of it. I don’t know where it started or what it meant to the reporter/podcaster/Twins official that first uttered what has become nonsense.

How can it possibly matter if a pitcher meets someone’s definition of pipeline? It does matter that they have built the staff efficiently using their resources. They have built a staff that has been one of the league’s best over the last two years. Isn’t that what we hoped for when Falvey and Levine were hired? Let’s bury the pipeline talk.

[Paul Walerius]

I don't see an issue with calling it a pipeline, However, we have to have continued success.   The starting staff has Ober (from our "pipeline), beyond that I am not certain that we have anything.   I do think we have some very good arms on the farm but will it translate.   Varland has not been good as a starter in the Majors, and I believe he will/should take Thielbar's position eventually. 

I think if we can get continued success with (when brought up), Festa, Raya, Soto, Lewis etc, you can call it a "pipeline". 

[jorgenswest]

31 minutes ago, Paul Walerius said:

I don't see an issue with calling it a pipeline, However, we have to have continued success.   The starting staff has Ober (from our "pipeline), beyond that I am not certain that we have anything.   I do think we have some very good arms on the farm but will it translate.   Varland has not been good as a starter in the Majors, and I believe he will/should take Thielbar's position eventually. 

I think if we can get continued success with (when brought up), Festa, Raya, Soto, Lewis etc, you can call it a "pipeline". 

Why debate about pipeline? Do any two people agree on what is in or out of this pipeline? Why does it matter? They have built a very good pitching staff without spending big dollars in free agency. Isn’t that what matters?

[IndianaTwin]

Since we've all found it so helpful (and productive) to discuss what an "ace" is, we should try to do the same with "pipeline," right? 🤣 

When we've got that one taken care of, we'll move on consider whether the carbonated beverage is "pop" or "soda."

[Fat Calvin]

2 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Why debate about pipeline? Do any two people agree on what is in or out of this pipeline? Why does it matter? They have built a very good pitching staff without spending big dollars in free agency. Isn’t that what matters?

Yeah, it's good now; but the starting pitching is extremely thin and vulnerable.  to injury. Woods Richardson is an untested rookie.  Paddack is coming off surgery, and hasn't pitched a full season, since maybe forever.  There's no backup.  Who'd come up if one of our starters get hurt?  Varland? Festa? 

[jorgenswest]

20 minutes ago, Fat Calvin said:

Yeah, it's good now; but the starting pitching is extremely thin and vulnerable.  to injury. Woods Richardson is an untested rookie.  Paddack is coming off surgery, and hasn't pitched a full season, since maybe forever.  There's no backup.  Who'd come up if one of our starters get hurt?  Varland? Festa? 

It does feel thin but Varland and Festa do have some upside. 

[Parfigliano]

3 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

Since we've all found it so helpful (and productive) to discuss what an "ace" is, we should try to do the same with "pipeline," right? 🤣 

When we've got that one taken care of, we'll move on consider whether the carbonated beverage is "pop" or "soda."

Its pop.  Case closed.

[IndianaTwin]

8 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Its pop.  Case closed.

Agreed. Case of 24 Diet Dews, preferably. After all, Mountain Dew isn't just for breakfast anymore.  

[cheeseheadgophfan]

5 hours ago, Paul Walerius said:

I don't see an issue with calling it a pipeline, However, we have to have continued success.   The starting staff has Ober (from our "pipeline), beyond that I am not certain that we have anything.   I do think we have some very good arms on the farm but will it translate.   Varland has not been good as a starter in the Majors, and I believe he will/should take Thielbar's position eventually. 

I think if we can get continued success with (when brought up), Festa, Raya, Soto, Lewis etc, you can call it a "pipeline". 

I don't care about the term "pipeline" but the staff as a whole has some homegrown talent in Duran, Jax, Thielbar, Ober, SWR, and to a lesser extent Funderburk, Alcala and Varland.  The staff also has to be given credit for Ryan who had never pitched in the majors before he got here.  

[Paul Walerius]

4 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

I don't care about the term "pipeline" but the staff as a whole has some homegrown talent in Duran, Jax, Thielbar, Ober, SWR, and to a lesser extent Funderburk, Alcala and Varland.  The staff also has to be given credit for Ryan who had never pitched in the majors before he got here.  

Duran, SWR and Alcala were all received in trades so, like Ryan, they are not "home grown".   That being said the organization has done well to get them to the next level.  Thielbar was found in independent league.  

[Craig Arko]

Calling it the ‘pitching alimentary canal’ might be more accurate, but does not roll off the tongue quite as easily.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

8 hours ago, Fat Calvin said:

Yeah, it's good now; but the starting pitching is extremely thin and vulnerable.  to injury. Woods Richardson is an untested rookie.  Paddack is coming off surgery, and hasn't pitched a full season, since maybe forever.  There's no backup.  Who'd come up if one of our starters get hurt?  Varland? Festa? 

That's a crapshoot for pretty much every team.  The Twins are in a better position than most.  Years ago (and often) we were wondering who starters number four and five were going to be.  That's where some of the really awful veteran signings came in.  Enjoy what we have now, because it won't always be that way.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

And in reference to this post, PLEASE let's shut down the use of the rather loaded and undefined word "pipeline"!  Even when things are going well, it just gives people something to complain about. 

[arby58]

1 hour ago, Paul Walerius said:

Duran, SWR and Alcala were all received in trades so, like Ryan, they are not "home grown".   That being said the organization has done well to get them to the next level.  Thielbar was found in independent league.  

Duran was a 20-year old starting pitcher in A-ball when the Twins acquired him, and Alcala was in A+ ball - to me, that is home grown, as it is a long way from A ball to the majors. SWR was a 20-year old pitcher in AA ball, but he had not had much success there when the Twins acquired him, and it's only three years later that he is having some success at the MLB level - pretty close to home grown as well. 

Really, though, it doesn't matter - it is identifying players that can make it as pitchers in the major leagues, whether through trades or development. Stewart is another example of finding a needle in a haystack.  It's sort of how Tampa Bay does things - see Zack Littell this year (there's a blast from the Twins past). 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

Calling it the ‘pitching alimentary canal’ might be more accurate, but does not roll off the tongue quite as easily.

As long as they don't call it a "pitching root canal". Now that would create a negative reaction.

[Craig Arko]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

As long as they don't call it a root canal

Or a Suez Canal.

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Fat Calvin said:

Yeah, it's good now; but the starting pitching is extremely thin and vulnerable.  to injury. Woods Richardson is an untested rookie.  Paddack is coming off surgery, and hasn't pitched a full season, since maybe forever.  There's no backup.  Who'd come up if one of our starters get hurt?  Varland? Festa? 

We will find out the thick or thinness when we put the shirt on. 😁

Ready or not they will be called upon. 

[wabene]

2 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

Calling it the ‘pitching alimentary canal’ might be more accurate, but does not roll off the tongue quite as easily.

You would think this joke would crack up all the "Doctors" around here

[Jocko87]

I would like to see a deep dive article on it but generally the banter in the comments is pretty pointless without even having an agreement on the definition of the term.  It's a topic that's fascinating to me to the point of 3-4 spreadsheets and more screen time than I should admit in public.

If you are nervous about our 3rd starter, you may have an issue. If you are nervous about our 7th starter, you have a pipeline.

It's stunning how many championship contenders are more the former than the latter. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

4 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

If you are nervous about our 3rd starter, you may have an issue. If you are nervous about our 7th starter, you have a pipeline.

It's stunning how many championship contenders are more the former than the latter. 

I believe you may have hit the most important criteria of all.  We have much to be happy about. 

[Alex]

The "pipeline" is an arbitrary term that can be fun for discussion for some and a moving goalpost for others who are seemingly just looking for criticism of the front office.

We seem to have gone from, "we need better starting pitching" to "we don't have enough pitching depth" to "well, we need to have a pitching pipeline."

I think it's pretty clear that the front office has prioritized pitching and they've used every avenue to improve the rotation.   They've missed on some, but I think that's why they make these moves in quantity.   

It's hard to argue that they aren't developing pitchers that they get, at whatever stage.   Every single starter they have this season who has pitched is outperforming expectations upon arrival in the organization.  Even Varland, who has had a horrible start this season, should be viewed as a success story, as at worst it looks like he'll end up being a hard throwing reliever after throwing in the low 90s in college and a 15th round pick.

I think it's a pretty positive sign that we started this season with our projected 5th starter not pitching an inning, our 7th starter on the depth chart filling in admirably so far after the 6th struggled and people are asking what about our 8th or 9th.   I don't think we'll know until we need them, and maybe our 6th (Varland) gets back on track before then.