The Twins Are Killing Their Brand, and It's Brutal to Watch

[silverslugger]

18 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Short term financial gain at the expense of long-term thinking.

The decisions that have been made are due primarily to one reason: the fans will come back.

They can destroy whatever goodwill they want because they know all it will take is a strong winning season and the fans will come back.  They always do.  Like moths to a flame.  The Pohlads have had little to no regard for the fans since they took over.  It is strictly a business.  Cash in hand is all that matters to them.

Except for the fact that in this day and age the fans aren't coming back.  I used to have DirecTV, I cut the cord, ummm satellite feed, and went to Hulu several years ago.  They cut Hulu and I stopped watching.  I'm from Des Moines, I typically went to one to two games a year.  I haven't been there since pre-Covid.  Now, I only read box scores and get my news here while watching the occasional highlight on the videos implanted in the articles.  I used to play fantasy baseball and know all the players.  I stopped doing that several years back and now know very few players outside of the Twins, and to a certain extent, the AL Central since they play each other so often.

And as to earlier questions about the younger fan base (teens) and do they watch.  I'm a 59 year-old high school teacher in an urban school.  Almost NONE of the students care about baseball anymore.  By popularity, it's by far Soccer #1, followed by the NFL and NBA.  And let me tell you, even the NFL is a big drop off from soccer fandom.  I don't see any baseball gear worn unless it's a designer hat worn as if it's straight off the shelf with no crease and the kid wouldn't have a clue if you asked him what team it was, he's wearing it for style, not fandom.  Baseball is almost dead to the under 40 crowd and baseball doesn't have a clue how to change that.  

[Major League Ready]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Given sports teams always sell for massive gains, they aren't losing money. Unless they are the only major US sports team ever to do so.

The potential sale price does not matter if you don't want to sell the business.  If you are keeping the business the only value is profit/loss.  Let's say they have decided to sell the business in the next 5 years or if they are interested in growing the business value to sell it someday.  What are the primary factors that influence business valuation?  

[Original_JB]

23 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The potential sale price does not matter if you don't want to sell the business.  If you are keeping the business the only value is profit/loss.  Let's say they have decided to sell the business in the next 5 years or if they are interested in growing the business value to sell it someday.  What are the primary factors that influence business valuation?  

Also the aspect that the Twins are not the Pohlad's only business venture.  But it is probably the one that easiest to selectively 'create' profit or loss numbers to balance their overall "family" books tax-wise. Make too much profit somewhere else, they "invest' in a new video board for the Twins (business expense). Tough economy, high interest rates, Twins get "right sized". 

***part of me has a niggling feeling that we are seeing the early vestiges of an owner getting ready to sell, before the $$$ start to change downward league-wide***

[Whitey333]

Great article!  I have been a Twins fan for decades.  But the past 3-5 years have been very tough.  I haven't had access to Twins for 5 years.  I blame most of this on the Twins.  I can't even go to my local restaurant to watch them as they had Comcast.  I don't trust the Twins anymore.  They treat their fans like dirt.  So many miscues.  So many people I talk to say they don't care about the Twins anymore.  I still care.  That's why it is so hard to see it deteriorate due to all the self inflicted wounds.  The Twins handle this so poorly.  Well written article.  One of the best ever on TD!

[Major League Ready]

51 minutes ago, Original_JB said:

Also the aspect that the Twins are not the Pohlad's only business venture.  But it is probably the one that easiest to selectively 'create' profit or loss numbers to balance their overall "family" books tax-wise. Make too much profit somewhere else, they "invest' in a new video board for the Twins (business expense). Tough economy, high interest rates, Twins get "right sized". 

***part of me has a niggling feeling that we are seeing the early vestiges of an owner getting ready to sell, before the $$$ start to change downward league-wide***

I had a slight "niggling" as well which is why I posted.  What drives valuations / business value?  Number 1 is Earnings and Revenue Growth Potential. Market Conditions and Risk next.  Name Recognition and Goodwill have role and then a number of other less influential factors. The premise that profitability does not matter because the business is worth a lot ignores the most important factor driving valuations.  The business has value because of the likelihood of profitability.  We have a constant buzz here about the inevitable demise of MLB so will these valuations be viable going forward.  The average return on capital (stock market) in the US is 10%. Anyone buying the team at the current $1.2B valuation could make $120M in the stock market.   

[Major League Ready]

16 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Great article!  I have been a Twins fan for decades.  But the past 3-5 years have been very tough.  I haven't had access to Twins for 5 years.  I blame most of this on the Twins.  I can't even go to my local restaurant to watch them as they had Comcast.  I don't trust the Twins anymore.  They treat their fans like dirt.  So many miscues.  So many people I talk to say they don't care about the Twins anymore.  I still care.  That's why it is so hard to see it deteriorate due to all the self inflicted wounds.  The Twins handle this so poorly.  Well written article.  One of the best ever on TD!

Can't get DirecTV where you live?  MLB steaming?

[Mike Sixel]

32 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I had a slight "niggling" as well which is why I posted.  What drives valuations / business value?  Number 1 is Earnings and Revenue Growth Potential. Market Conditions and Risk next.  Name Recognition and Goodwill have role and then a number of other less influential factors. The premise that profitability does not matter because the business is worth a lot ignores the most important factor driving valuations.  The business has value because of the likelihood of profitability.  We have a constant buzz here about the inevitable demise of MLB so will these valuations be viable going forward.  The average return on capital (stock market) in the US is 10%. Anyone buying the team at the current $1.2B valuation could make $120M in the stock market.   

Who the F said profit doesn't matter? Not me. I said that given every sports team in the US sells for big gains, every one of them, it is unlikely any of them lose money, or, as you point out, they wouldn't sell for big gains. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Also agree. Great commentary, Nick.

I’ll just say contracting is hard and too many moving parts for me to understand here. We can hope that the organization is trying to gut out one more difficult year, for the promise of something better or transformative in 2025. Not likely but maybe. 

The other thing is: I do disagree with the suggestion that Derek Falvey is an innocent party here. If Falvey and Levine are going to require ever-increasing record payrolls to put competitive teams on the field, year after year, then you should take it as just another sign that they are not the guys for the job. I mean, pretty much anyone could be the GM in that scenario.

And yes you can still get kicked out of local bars for asking them to put the Twins game on. The 2012-2014 years did a number on this franchise.  🙂

[Fire Dan Gladden]

14 hours ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

This is not an accurate characterization of the Glen Taylor A-rod/Lore situation. He balked at spending money on the Wolves for nearly 20 years until they finally lucked into a couple of #1 overall picks.

A-Rod & Lore brought in Tim Connelly who brought in Rudy and completely changed the course of this franchise. Glen Taylor halted the sale because the franchise is worth a billion more than it was when they started the sale - because of the Connelly hire. He's doing this purely for the money. 

That "report" about them "gutting the team" is pure propaganda from Glen - something he's always done. In their documents to prove they are ready to own a team, they submitted multiple budgets for multiple scenarios depending on how well the team did this year. Glen selectively chose the worst case scenario and broadcast that as if that was their main plan, when it was not. Plenty of reporting from the Wolves beat that confirms all of this.

Glen has been more hated than the Pohlads for decades, it's kind of crazy to see an obvious bit of propaganda actually change the perception of him overnight. 

I am not a huge Taylor fan.  He is not a great basketball mind and has made tons of mistakes.  BUT, spending money is not one of them.  Garnett was the highest paid player in the NBA for a time.  He doled large contracts out to role players.  He was willing to spend money.

[GoMNTwins]

The thing that I find to be a bit shocking, is that they seem to be showing absolutely no awareness of the MLB market competition that is available in their own television market. I can sign up for MLB.TV and watch Shohei Ohtani play every night, except for when the Dodgers play the Twins. Ditto the Baltimore Orioles' exciting young team, or classic TV behemoths like the New York Yankees. How does it make any sense from a business standpoint to allow other teams to scoop up your audience? I know people who are lifelong fans of the Cubs and the Braves, because their games were broadcast on WGN and TBS, which got national reach. I know people who are lifelong fans of the Mariners because of Ken Griffey Jr. When you think about the draw that Ohtani provides, and the fact that his team is available to stream in the Twin Cities, it's not hard to envision the Twins losing a significant chunk of their potential audience to the Dodgers. This is just terrible business, especially when you consider that they did this for such a short-term gain with, what appears to me anyway, no regard for what happens after the initial payday.  

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

4 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I am not a huge Taylor fan.  He is not a great basketball mind and has made tons of mistakes.  BUT, spending money is not one of them.  Garnett was the highest paid player in the NBA for a time.  He doled large contracts out to role players.  He was willing to spend money.

Sure, Glen spent from 2001-2006.

Before Garnett's rookie extension the Wolves were 16th in payroll in '99 & 20th in 2000.

After he shipped out Garnett, the Wolves averaged 19th in payroll for the next 16 years (including this season). Sounds a lot like what the Pohlads have done over the last 2 decades. 

[Major League Ready]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:58 AM, Mike Sixel said:

Who the F said profit doesn't matter? Not me. I said that given every sports team in the US sells for big gains, every one of them, it is unlikely any of them lose money, or, as you point out, they wouldn't sell for big gains. 

Why the hostility?  If you think I didn't understand your point, make your case.  It's an interesting topic.  You didn't understand my point which is profitability drives the valuation so to say they are making money even if they are not operationally profitable flies in the face of every financial principle applicable here.  These teams sold for big money in part because of the incredible / consistent growth.  That looks much more suspect than it ever has in the past.

[twinstalker]

Fubo good so far, but Comcast owns a chunk of it.

[Jocko87]

8 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The other thing is: I do disagree with the suggestion that Derek Falvey is an innocent party here. If Falvey and Levine are going to require ever-increasing record payrolls to put competitive teams on the field, year after year, then you should take it as just another sign that they are not the guys for the job. I mean, pretty much anyone could be the GM in that scenario.

This is a fantastic point and similar to one I've been making over and over throughout the off-season.  If there's a good contending product on the field year after year, I don't care one bit what the payroll is.  Fortunately, so far they seem to be setting up all the pieces of a long term competitive group which is ultimately the only way out of this mess.  If we circle back to a different thread, about how good are they, how much they spend is part of the equation.  They aren't going to need record payroll, although I'm sure they would have liked a little extra this year.

Can you imagine a Brian Cashman doing the Twins job?  They way he does this job is completely different than a Twins situation.  Can you imagine someone even named Cashman working for the Twins?

Also, B-R is littered with failed GMs that had a seemingly open checkbook.  I'm sure it's easier but the mistakes are bigger.  I'd give it a try though.

[Lauriee23]

I am so disappointed in this TV situation.  I dropped DirecTV in 2019 for YouTube TV, as they were carrying Fox Sports regional networks.  Then Diamond and YTTV couldn't come to an agreement after 2020, and my TV access was gone.  As a partial season ticket holder, I get MLB.TV for free, but I can only watch the Twins game after the 90 minute blackout.  I was somewhat encouraged this off-season when DSP sounded like the Twins were looking for a TV deal that would also include streamers, then was disappointed once again when they signed again with Bally.  I can't believe they were unaware that the Bally/Comcast contract was up on 5/1 when they signed, which is unforgivable.  My 90 year old mom (and lifelong Twins fan) has Comcast and is unhappy that she can no longer watch the Twins.  At this point, I listen on the radio or I just watch the MiLB games on MLB.TV.  The Twins just do not seem to care about their fans anymore.  

[Devlin Clark]

I wonder what "GM Correa" thinks about this. Falvey joked when they signed Correa that he was the "assistant GM" I wonder how he's reacting to this, if they're keeping him in the loop, and if things keep happening, if he will eventually ask out. 

[David HK]

Spot on.

[David HK]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:28 AM, Lauriee23 said:

I am so disappointed in this TV situation.  I dropped DirecTV in 2019 for YouTube TV, as they were carrying Fox Sports regional networks.  Then Diamond and YTTV couldn't come to an agreement after 2020, and my TV access was gone.  As a partial season ticket holder, I get MLB.TV for free, but I can only watch the Twins game after the 90 minute blackout.  I was somewhat encouraged this off-season when DSP sounded like the Twins were looking for a TV deal that would also include streamers, then was disappointed once again when they signed again with Bally.  I can't believe they were unaware that the Bally/Comcast contract was up on 5/1 when they signed, which is unforgivable.  My 90 year old mom (and lifelong Twins fan) has Comcast and is unhappy that she can no longer watch the Twins.  At this point, I listen on the radio or I just watch the MiLB games on MLB.TV.  The Twins just do not seem to care about their fans anymore.  

Get a VPN, set it outside the US to watch the game, and enjoy the mlbtv.