White Sox 3, Twins 2: Walked-Off in Chi-Town

[jmlease1]

1 minute ago, stringer bell said:

Pretty sure you meant Duran, not Moran.

yes. sigh. typos are not my friend!

[Mortimerkenny21]

Indeed, their instinct was not killer. A very winnable game we should have won to start pulling away in the division. Their instinct was very basic. Let's rebound tonight!

[jmlease1]

18 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

It just isn't true that bunting a runner over is the proper strategy in extra innings with the "ghost runner". This isn't the 60s or 70s when contact was expected. Batters strike out and pop out at a high rate. Giving away an out to advance a runner is debatable at best, especially given that the other side will have a runner on second and no one out in the bottom half. The bunt over didn't win the game for the Sox, either. It was a hit with two outs by a left handed hitter against a left handed pitcher. 

Correct. It's a very reasonable strategy when you're the home team and can play for 1 run to win, but tactically it's a more significant risk for the team in the top of the inning to play for one run, which is essentially what you're doing with by bunting the Manfred Man over to 3rd and surrendering the out.

Chicago could bunt the guy over because there was no risk for them to lose and one run walks off the game. The road team doesn't have that advantage. 

[JD-TWINS]

7 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Because the 3-4-5 hitters were up in the 7th? I'm sure the thought process was to have Lopez (who has been excellent this season) face the heart of the order while trying to preserve the lead in the 7th, have Jax take the 8th, and Moran available to lock it down in the 9th for the save. With the score tied, I'm guessing they were looking at Stewart to run the 9th so that if they scored in the 10th they could again have Moran nail it down for the save. This is all fairly normal bullpen management.

The real issue is how little the offense did last night; 3 hits is pretty miserable. They've got to do better even in cold weather...but dang it Correa only needed about another foot to put that ball out and then we're in a whole different story.

Ryan did very well last night overall, although i was a little concerned about his inability to finish off a couple of hitters. He got the job done, but there were a few long ABs in there and that's really about the only thing holding him back right now from taking another leap.

Unfortunately, López has had 3 subpar outings in a row after being essentially perfect.

Don’t see what next level Ryan can be expected to leap to this season? He’s 5-0 with a sub 2.50ERA & in his only no decision he gave up one hit & no runs over 6 innings. Pretty top shelf to date!

[jmlease1]

7 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Unfortunately, López has had 3 subpar outings in a row after being essentially perfect.

Don’t see what next level Ryan can be expected to leap to this season? He’s 5-0 with a sub 2.50ERA & in his only no decision he gave up one hit & no runs over 6 innings. Pretty top shelf to date!

He's doing great, but he still has stretches where he struggles to finish off a hitter (the Anderson AB last night was a perfect encapsulation of this) and he's been a little fortunate (which is why his FIP is sitting at 3.03 while his ERA is at 2.37). I'm still very happy with everything he's done this season, especially with how he's generally kept the walks and HRs down.

If he can keep on this kind of a run, he's going to be fighting for an all-star slot, though!

[Steven Trefz]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

The White Sox have pretty good talent. I think they finish around .500 when all is said and done, unless they don't think they can contend and dump a lot of players. One area other teams have exploited against the White Sox that the Twins haven't is the bullpen. They have been a disaster except for playing the Twins. 

Notable that Anderson and Eloy being back should also make them more formidable than the White Sox of last week…especially if their pitching wakes up from their terrible start.

 

 

[Nine of twelve]

11 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Don’t like losing to teams like this. I know it happens but … just shouldn’t happen. 

It sounds like you are saying that you think our record against the White Sox this season should be 13-0. Is that really what you mean?

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

It sounds like you are saying that you think our record against the White Sox this season should be 13-0. Is that really what you mean?

Yes.

[lake_guy]

2 hours ago, stringer bell said:

It just isn't true that bunting a runner over is the proper strategy in extra innings with the "ghost runner". This isn't the 60s or 70s when contact was expected. Batters strike out and pop out at a high rate. Giving away an out to advance a runner is debatable at best, especially given that the other side will have a runner on second and no one out in the bottom half. The bunt over didn't win the game for the Sox, either. It was a hit with two outs by a left handed hitter against a left handed pitcher. 

When you're the visiting team I think you have to play small ball and get that one run in because if you don't, the home team is gonna do exactly what the Chisox did and play small ball to get that run in.  The other thing it does with that one run is put some added pressure on the home team to get two so maybe they don't play small ball and do what the Twins just did to lose that game.

The 10th inning rule requires at least some skill at bunting from all your guys, they just need to be able to put it in play.  Twins need to start putting at least a little emphasis on this and stop giving guys a pass.

[stringer bell]

47 minutes ago, heresthething said:

When you're the visiting team I think you have to play small ball and get that one run in because if you don't, the home team is gonna do exactly what the Chisox did and play small ball to get that run in.  The other thing it does with that one run is put some added pressure on the home team to get two so maybe they don't play small ball and do what the Twins just did to lose that game.

The 10th inning rule requires at least some skill at bunting from all your guys, they just need to be able to put it in play.  Twins need to start putting at least a little emphasis on this and stop giving guys a pass.

Here’s the thing heresthething—bunting didn’t get a run for the Sox in either the ninth or the tenth. Hitting with two outs produced the run in the tenth.  If I’m the home team in extra innings, I’d gladly accept the out for advancing the runner to third. If I’m the home team, I’d consider bunting, just because the infield and outfield in improves the hitter’a chances. 

[Larry Janisewski]

16 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Yup, can't win 'em all.

Did anyone count how many swings and misses at high fastballs (more than four inches high out of the strike zone) there were in the game tonight. ? It seemed like an abnormal number of swings at pitches that cannot be hit.

Varland up next.

My thought exactly! I wish I would have counted how many swing and misses Twins had at pitches above the strike zone.

I'm blaming the hitting coach for the Twins not having a plan when they go to bat. They must have known they were going to see a lot of high fast balls and had to lay off of them.

[Woof Bronzer]

5 hours ago, stringer bell said:

It just isn't true that bunting a runner over is the proper strategy in extra innings with the "ghost runner". This isn't the 60s or 70s when contact was expected. Batters strike out and pop out at a high rate. Giving away an out to advance a runner is debatable at best, especially given that the other side will have a runner on second and no one out in the bottom half. The bunt over didn't win the game for the Sox, either. It was a hit with two outs by a left handed hitter against a left handed pitcher. 

Flying out with 1 out and a runner on 3rd wins the game.  Your comment suggests it's not possible for hitters to adjust to the situation at hand and not swing for the fences when a fly ball or base hit wins the game.  This used to be called "situational hitting".  Lost art, I guess, but I just reject the idea that hitters cannot be expected to adjust their approach if the game calls for it.  

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, stringer bell said:

The White Sox have pretty good talent. I think they finish around .500 when all is said and done, unless they don't think they can contend and dump a lot of players. One area other teams have exploited against the White Sox that the Twins haven't is the bullpen. They have been a disaster except for playing the Twins. 

Set an over/under and we'll make a wager. They're 12 games under .500 right now. It'll take months of 90+ win baseball to get to .500 plus they'll need to maintain that by winning half of their games for another 2-3 months.  

[stringer bell]

47 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Flying out with 1 out and a runner on 3rd wins the game.  Your comment suggests it's not possible for hitters to adjust to the situation at hand and not swing for the fences when a fly ball or base hit wins the game.  This used to be called "situational hitting".  Lost art, I guess, but I just reject the idea that hitters cannot be expected to adjust their approach if the game calls for it.  

Not if you’re the road team, which is what was being discussed. A road team playing for one when the home team is guaranteed a runner on second with none out is a losing proposition. It isn’t automatic that a hitter gets a 95 mph fastball down. Getting runners in from third with less than two out isn’t guaranteed. I don’t have the numbers, but I am pretty sure they’re available. The Whities had the winning run on third with one out in both the t ninth and tenth and couldn’t get either in with an out. 

[lake_guy]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Here’s the thing heresthething—bunting didn’t get a run for the Sox in either the ninth or the tenth. Hitting with two outs produced the run in the tenth.  If I’m the home team in extra innings, I’d gladly accept the out for advancing the runner to third. If I’m the home team, I’d consider bunting, just because the infield and outfield in improves the hitter’a chances. 

But it did get the guy to third and gives you more options to get him home.  The Twins played infield in, that could get a ball through that wouldn't if they were at normal depth.  

Gotta be stats out there by now that show the progression in extra innings as to what teams are doing.  Would be interesting to see what is working.

[Woof Bronzer]

16 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Not if you’re the road team, which is what was being discussed. A road team playing for one when the home team is guaranteed a runner on second with none out is a losing proposition. 

My mistake as I thought you were talking about the home team.  I apologize.  Still, I don't know that I agree that playing for a run as the road team is a losing proposition.  This would suggest that the home team on average scores 2 runs in the bottom of the 10th.  Obviously this isn't true.  In extras teams play for a run, not 7.  If 9-1-2 is coming up in the top of 10, bunting still might be your best bet to get that run.  If it's 3-4-5, maybe you swing away.