It’s official … Kirilloff and Polanco to start season on the IL

[Jocko87]

23 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The news about Kirilloff is the most disappointing. His career is in jeopardy.

Yes, but no different from months ago.  If this doesn’t work it’s a problem but this looks normal for the recovery of that process. 

[chpettit19]

26 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The news about Kirilloff is the most disappointing. His career is in jeopardy.

This feels a bit extreme based on the reports from him and the team. "We’re really not that far behind" was the quote from Kirilloff ("we" talking about just him, not him and Polanco) on the situation. "We’re getting closer and closer. Like I said, I’m really optimistic.” Was another one. If things go poorly it could certainly be a career concerning injury, but they're not saying he's having any real pain or anything like that. Just that he needs to continue to strengthen the wrist to increase the chances that there's no problems moving forward. He's not "hurt," he's just playing the long game.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair. It's hard to for me to imagine most teams backups being players to be excited about.

Agree backups are backups for a reason, they aren't good enough to be starters or they are really good utility type players (Gordon for example). The sad part for a Twins fan is it seems like we see these guys playing way too much. I liked the bench players (Well not a huge fan of Solano, but understood his role on this team you aren't giving that to prospect) and now they are moving into starting jobs (Taylor, Farmer/Gordon, Larnach) and I don't like that or the bench now. I would rather see them give a prospect one of the job openings and see what they can do and leave a good bench a good bench. If 24 year old Julien isn't given a chance now when is the right time, when he is 26 and Polanco is gone, or Lewis, Lee, Austin have passed him by? If the Twins aren't giving him a chance now is he really a prospect? If he is terrible what is the worst case, they go back to the plan that is being talked about now? I see no real down size, and if not him, move Gallo to first and let Wallner play a little outfield and DH?

 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair. It's hard to for me to imagine most teams backups being players to be excited about.

I know I'm a broken record, but Carlos Correa's and Miguel Sano's backups last year were my favorite things I saw all summer.

Getting the veteran depth was the reasonable (sigh, and smart) thing to do though. I just don't like these kinds of players filling out my team's lineup when there's more talented, though unproven options available. I get why the front office would be less inclined to gamble on upside than I am though. My job's not on the line.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Agree backups are backups for a reason, they aren't good enough to be starters or they are really good utility type players (Gordon for example). The sad part for a Twins fan is it seems like we see these guys playing way too much. I liked the bench players (Well not a huge fan of Solano, but understood his role on this team you aren't giving that to prospect) and now they are moving into starting jobs (Taylor, Farmer/Gordon, Larnach) and I don't like that or the bench now. I would rather see them give a prospect one of the job openings and see what they can do and leave a good bench a good bench. If 24 year old Julien isn't given a chance now when is the right time, when he is 26 and Polanco is gone, or Lewis, Lee, Austin have passed him by? If the Twins aren't giving him a chance now is he really a prospect? If he is terrible what is the worst case, they go back to the plan that is being talked about now? I see no real down size, and if not him, move Gallo to first and let Wallner play a little outfield and DH?

 

I think this is one of the better discussions for fans to have. Handling of injured players is really hard to have an educated debate about because we simply don't know enough about what the physical condition of players, or plans for, are. We're just guessing at almost everything when it comes to that. But their roster decisions is something we have more information on.

Julien is interesting to me. I think the best argument for him starting in AAA is everyday at bats. If they'd put Larnach in left (I don't agree with you listing him with Taylor, Farmer/Gordon), Gordon at 2B, and Gallo at first (that's my guess for opening day) then there's no real place for Julien and I'd prefer him in AAA. To me, Gordon is the guy that should fill the role you're describing of finding out what he is. Gordon hits the ball like an above average player. But he's got the swing decisions of a below average player. I think they need to figure out who Gordon is early, and that works well with manipulating Julien's service time, and getting him everyday ABs in St Paul. All that said, I wouldn't be sad to see Julien up early. I'll be real upset if they hang onto struggling vets while they lose early games and he's tearing up AAA (assuming that's what he does).

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I know I'm a broken record, but Carlos Correa's and Miguel Sano's backups last year were my favorite things I saw all summer.

Getting the veteran depth was the reasonable (sigh, and smart) thing to do though. I just don't like these kinds of players filling out my team's lineup when there's more talented, though unproven options available. I get why the front office would be less inclined to gamble on upside than I am though. My job's not on the line.

My biggest concern/complaint with this leadership team has been their in season ability to adjust off "the plan." And I know I'm not the only one. That's what I'm watching for the first month or 2. They have a plan. It's a reasonable plan. I even kind of like the plan. But if Solano is trash move on before the end of April. If Gordon, Kepler, Gallo, whoever isn't earning a starting spot don't just move them from the 5 hole to the 8 hole, put them on the bench. Or cut them if they're terrible.

They've built the depth in the majors and high minors. It's time to let the play on the field dictate decisions. If Pagan sucks for the 4th year in a row cut him (I'm still irrationally hoping they trade him before opening day).

[TwinsDr2021]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think this is one of the better discussions for fans to have. Handling of injured players is really hard to have an educated debate about because we simply don't know enough about what the physical condition of players, or plans for, are. We're just guessing at almost everything when it comes to that. But their roster decisions is something we have more information on.

Julien is interesting to me. I think the best argument for him starting in AAA is everyday at bats. If they'd put Larnach in left (I don't agree with you listing him with Taylor, Farmer/Gordon), Gordon at 2B, and Gallo at first (that's my guess for opening day) then there's no real place for Julien and I'd prefer him in AAA. To me, Gordon is the guy that should fill the role you're describing of finding out what he is. Gordon hits the ball like an above average player. But he's got the swing decisions of a below average player. I think they need to figure out who Gordon is early, and that works well with manipulating Julien's service time, and getting him everyday ABs in St Paul. All that said, I wouldn't be sad to see Julien up early. I'll be real upset if they hang onto struggling vets while they lose early games and he's tearing up AAA (assuming that's what he does).

I added Larnach, because if Buxton was playing center, AK and Polanco were on the 26 man, Larnach is DH/Bench.  I don't much see the need to manipulated a player at Julien's age, but I get that argument. Gordon is 27 and out of options so I don't really see the need to figure out what Gordon is that will happen no matter what, getting others guys days off and if he is good will likely take a spot from a starter that isn't and I know he is cheap and good enough to be on the 40 man, as opposed to if I need to keep a 24 year old Julien or 25 year old Wallner.  But again I understand that others don't think that is old for prospects and I am close to giving up on players that age.

[SanoMustGo]

I think Kiriloff will be good with a bit more time.  Polanco, again going on since last August.  I think his MLB days are numbered with that knee.  He will never be the same player he once was.  Time to move on from him after the season.

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I added Larnach, because if Buxton was playing center, AK and Polanco were on the 26 man, Larnach is DH/Bench.  I don't much see the need to manipulated a player at Julien's age, but I get that argument. Gordon is 27 and out of options so I don't really see the need to figure out what Gordon is that will happen no matter what, getting others guys days off and if he is good will likely take a spot from a starter that isn't and I know he is cheap and good enough to be on the 40 man, as opposed to if I need to keep a 24 year old Julien or 25 year old Wallner.  But again I understand that others don't think that is old for prospects and I am close to giving up on players that age.

Fair enough on Larnach. I'm not as concerned about prospect ages. Yes, true superstars are generally there much younger, but I don't think Julien or Wallner are superstars, and there's some more context that needs to go into things with them. I don't think Wallner is likely even an everyday regular, but that's neither here nor there. I don't know that an extra year of control is really the Twins concern with Julien. I'd bet it's more about everyday at bats. But the extra year is a nice bonus. In general I just don't believe in forcing prospects, of any age, onto rosters early as the way of seeing what you have in them. At least not when you're trying to win. 

I think Julien is up early. I'm not totally sure he won't make the opening day roster. But I think getting him everyday ABs no matter where he is should be the biggest driver in the decision. I think Gordon's age and lack of options is the exact reason to find out what you have in him. With Julien, Wallner, Lewis, Lee, Martin, whoever else anyone thinks is going to be part of the next core all in AA or above decisions are going to have to be made. Even with short-term injuries early this year there'll have to be 40-man decisions made. Solano is the only position player that's an obvious DFA option right now. And I'd bet their hope is that Lewis is the one who takes his spot. Then you're looking at Headrick, Sands, Megill on the pitching side. None of those are huge losses (to me at least) if you DFA them, but those guys are usually DFA'd for each other. They need a spot to cycle them all through. Is Gordon the above average bat his batted ball data says he is? Or is he just your average utility guy? Knowing that as best you can would change the decisions being made on 40-man moves pretty drastically I think. He's a DFA option if you think any of the young guys are more than an average utility guy. A young guy is trade bate if Gordon is an above average bat. I think finding out what he is is a pretty big part of the early part of 2023.

[Schmoeman5]

36 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

My biggest concern/complaint with this leadership team has been their in season ability to adjust off "the plan." And I know I'm not the only one. That's what I'm watching for the first month or 2. They have a plan. It's a reasonable plan. I even kind of like the plan. But if Solano is trash move on before the end of April. If Gordon, Kepler, Gallo, whoever isn't earning a starting spot don't just move them from the 5 hole to the 8 hole, put them on the bench. Or cut them if they're terrible.

They've built the depth in the majors and high minors. It's time to let the play on the field dictate decisions. If Pagan sucks for the 4th year in a row cut him (I'm still irrationally hoping they trade him before opening day).

"If Gordon, Kepler, Gallo, whoever isn't earning a starting spot don't just move them from the 5 hole to the 8 hole, put them on the bench. Or cut them if they're terrible." Really? The Twins are just going to release 20 million dollars that they'd be on the hook for.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

"If Gordon, Kepler, Gallo, whoever isn't earning a starting spot don't just move them from the 5 hole to the 8 hole, put them on the bench. Or cut them if they're terrible." Really? The Twins are just going to release 20 million dollars that they'd be on the hook for.

Those were just examples of 3 guys who we're not sure how good they are that may not be part of the future so shouldn't be taking up roster spots if young players have taken their jobs. I wasn't suggesting all 3 of those guys get cut. They have depth and need to let performance dictate their decisions is my point. I don't expect that entire list of players to be cut. But I do expect that the Twins play to win.

As far as the money goes, yes, they should release 20 million dollars if it means the team would win more games. They're going to have to pay that money anyways. Why wouldn't they move on and have a team fans show up to see, have new jerseys to sell, and could make the playoffs which would drive more revenue? Holding onto 20 million worth of bad players while your fans stop watching, stop showing up, and stop buying merch isn't a great business decision. Now you're paying the same amount while bringing in less money. Doesn't seem like the better option.

[Schmoeman5]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Those were just examples of 3 guys who we're not sure how good they are that may not be part of the future so shouldn't be taking up roster spots if young players have taken their jobs. I wasn't suggesting all 3 of those guys get cut. They have depth and need to let performance dictate their decisions is my point. I don't expect that entire list of players to be cut. But I do expect that the Twins play to win.

As far as the money goes, yes, they should release 20 million dollars if it means the team would win more games. They're going to have to pay that money anyways. Why wouldn't they move on and have a team fans show up to see, have new jerseys to sell, and could make the playoffs which would drive more revenue? Holding onto 20 million worth of bad players while your fans stop watching, stop showing up, and stop buying merch isn't a great business decision. Now you're paying the same amount while bringing in less money. Doesn't seem like the better option.

I'm just saying.  Do you think the Twins would do that? I'm not questioning your moves. For the Twins not only having to eat crow, but then have to pay as well.  

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I'm just saying.  Do you think the Twins would do that? I'm not questioning your moves. For the Twins not only having to eat crow, but then have to pay as well.  

Would the Twins cut any of those players individually? Absolutely.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

My biggest concern/complaint with this leadership team has been their in season ability to adjust off "the plan." And I know I'm not the only one. That's what I'm watching for the first month or 2. They have a plan. It's a reasonable plan. I even kind of like the plan. But if Solano is trash move on before the end of April. If Gordon, Kepler, Gallo, whoever isn't earning a starting spot don't just move them from the 5 hole to the 8 hole, put them on the bench. Or cut them if they're terrible.

They've built the depth in the majors and high minors. It's time to let the play on the field dictate decisions. If Pagan sucks for the 4th year in a row cut him (I'm still irrationally hoping they trade him before opening day).

This

It is the only thing I ask. 

Let the players decide based on play. 

Paying money for bad play is one thing.

Paying Money for bad play and continuing to play it is the double down that will kill your baseball team... swiftly and absolutely. 

[FlyingFinn]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

They need a spot to cycle them all through.

Yes. And to add to this 40 man discussion, it is an almost certainty that Vasquez or Jeffers will get hurt and then we will need a 40 man spot for one of our 7 catchers (currently, probably less in a couple weeks) in St. Paul. But once our top two are healthy, we will DFA that third catcher when a 40 man spot is needed. Either we lose him or put him back in St. Paul. If we lose him, we have another guy ready for the same thing for the next catcher injury.

[Joey Self]

6 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

 Its been clear all along - we TDers just never fully put 2+2 together.  Gallo, Taylor, Solano, and the Lopez/Arraez trade were all the clues we needed. What else could the FO have done?  They have a plan this year and come hell or high water they are going to it implemented.

Quick question - where’s the “fun” on this team? 

Well, for me, trading a guy that could play 1st and 2nd was an indication that there wouldn't be spots there for Arraez.  What I saw after that looked a bit like scrambling. 

The one that was the most fun is in Miami...:(

[Craig Arko]

Pretty sure most of the fun of TD is sitting in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls’ porch.

[dxpavelka]

20 hours ago, h2oface said:

Pretty amazing that Polanco is at the same spot as the end of August. What did he even do to treat it? Did he do the Mahle Method? Nothing but rest? Who knows. Secret secret. 

So we start with Miranda and his questionable shoulder at third, Gallo and little experience at first, or guys that play multiple positions but none great subbing in those spots. Flexiblity is great, but all the positions become compromised because of it. Here we go......

And there is Buxton not in center.

To be fair, he / they are under no obligation to tell you, me or anyone else what they did or didn't do to treat anything.............

[jorgenswest]

It is an opportunity for Larnach to take hold of a regular role and keep it.

It could be an opportunity for Julien also. The reports of his defense at 2B from the fall league were very discouraging and he may need significant time in AAA. If his bat is ready maybe they should start giving him time at 1B where there appears to be an opening. I also wonder if 2B is becoming less important that corner OF in the defensive spectrum. Maybe poor defense at 2B won’t matter as much anymore with so many fewer groundballs.

[cHawk]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:18 PM, Vanimal46 said:

I hope the schedule in April, which was already rough with a full slate of health, doesn’t take us out of the race right away. 

I mean hey, Washington was 19-31 four years ago.

[Riverbrian]

11 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

It is an opportunity for Larnach to take hold of a regular role and keep it.

 

Exactly... I hope April is Larnach announcing his presence with authority. 

 

[Nine of twelve]

12 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Maybe poor defense at 2B won’t matter as much anymore with so many fewer groundballs.

I think the opposite. With the anti-shift rules the exposure to fielding will increase for second basemen.

[jorgenswest]

9 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

I think the opposite. With the anti-shift rules the exposure to fielding will increase for second basemen.

I am interested to find out. I wonder if the importance of 2B lessened with the increase in strike outs and higher rates of fly balls. With infielders needing to stay on the dirt it is really going to help to have corner outfielders that can play shallow as well as infielders with range.

BABiP will presumably increase with the shift rules making defense all around the diamond more important.

On the other hand you want guys that put balls in play to take advantage of the restrictions on defense and Julien may be that guy. Can he hit enough to make up for defense that may be very poor at 2B?

[SanoMustGo]

Considering Kiriloff had bone removed, I think things are moving along just fine so far.  It will take time, but it sounds like he just needs to regain strength, and he is on that path now.