Twins 4, Tigers 1: Debutants Do Their Part, Twins Take the Series Win

[jimbo92107]

I'd just like to stop for a moment and ask everybody - did you notice how HEALTHY the Twins bullpen seemed? After Ryan exited, we got to see an extremely competent Michael Fulmer mow down a few guys, then Thielbar, then Duran, and finally Lopez. None of them appeared a bit shaky or dubious. Each one dominated for an inning. 

Especially sweet was Lopez. So efficient, so commanding. Not quite the sheer velocity of Duran, but almost no wasted pitches, no walks, and hardly even any foul balls. Faster than summer love, game over. Even without Mahle, this new pair of RP's will improve things vastly.

As for who should be the closer, I see Duran as a young power pitcher whose overwhelming stuff allows him to dominate as a relief pitcher. Lopez is a star closer because his command of the corners with filthy stuff lets him snuff out three hitters in about two minutes. Until Duran can do that, I say Lopez is your closer, unless they want to give him a day off. Then Duran is fine, even if it takes him three times as many pitches to get three outs. In beer units, you could finish half a cup before Duran gets three outs. Lopez lets you have just a few sips. That, friends, is a closer. Jorge "three sips" Lopez.

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

So this is what a competent bullpen looks like. I like it.

Rec. this!  Exactly how I felt today.  Wow. 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

If I’m honest, I think Pagan is going to pull a Colome and pitch well going forward despite fan unrest. Those walks were a bit of a career aberration.

But I got a long memory so I’d have been OK if he was released instead of sending Moran down. 
 

Though Duffey might be a biggest question mark anyway.

Also, to continue the rambling, is it too much to ask to sign Jeurys Familia too? His BABIP is over .400 this year. His being terrible seems like flukey SSS stuff.

Personally I take Pagan going forward over Duffey. And it's not close.

Duffey has nothing. Getting by on hoping it's hit AT somebody.

Not that I like Pagan, but at least he has stuff that plays when he's on.

[Mike Sixel]

34 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Personally I take Pagan going forward over Duffey. And it's not close.

Duffey has nothing. Getting by on hoping it's hit AT somebody.

Not that I like Pagan, but at least he has stuff that plays when he's on.

Concur. 

[solomon1930]

46 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Concur. 

I would keep Pagan over Duffey and to add Duffey is a free agent after this season while

Pagan is under team control one more season.

[DocBauer]

A problem I have with the FO is "fear". Especially in regard to the pen. They aren't afraid to take a chance on someone, but they are equally afraid to let someone go, seemingly "afraid" they might lose out on someone.

What more does Moran have to do to earn an extended shot? How can he get better and grow and prove he belongs other than to stick around?

The Twins are not going to get the Duffey of old magically and are almost certain not to bring him back, unless it's  on a milb deal. And I'm OK walking away from Pagan as well, but at least I can see velocity and a somewhat decent breaking ball and a splitter that is still a work in progress but shows potential. So while I'd run with someone else, at least I can see a reason to stick with him for a little longer.

And I think Duffey is a great guy and teammate and did a great job for a few seasons, but the harsh reality is he's got nothing left but guts and guile and its not working. And you're trying to win now, and next year. Who gives you a better chance to do that? A RP who's toast? Or a young arm with potential who will hopefully get better with time and experience?

I actually kinda like Megill a bit. So they keep him up but send down Moran with as much or more potential? Duffey should have a "tired arm" or SOMETHING, if you want to keep him and SEE. Otherwise, quit being afraid. If somethings not working, then go down a different path.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

11 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Personally I take Pagan going forward over Duffey. And it's not close.

Duffey has nothing. Getting by on hoping it's hit AT somebody.

Not that I like Pagan, but at least he has stuff that plays when he's on.

I second that.

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, DocBauer said:

A problem I have with the FO is "fear". Especially in regard to the pen. They aren't afraid to take a chance on someone, but they are equally afraid to let someone go, seemingly "afraid" they might lose out on someone.

What more does Moran have to do to earn an extended shot? How can he get better and grow and prove he belongs other than to stick around?

 

I'd prefer Moran, but sending him down instead of getting rid of Duffey keeps some depth. I'm ready to move along from Duffey, but if someone gets hurt, they're running out of AAA options as so many have already been DFA'd.

 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

17 hours ago, IowaBeancounter said:

Bullpen is completely changed.  Which reliever with get option (or DFAd), when Mahle is added?

 

If it's not Duffey, he must have some compromising pictures of Rocco somewhere.........

EDIT==I now see it's Moran and I don't get it.

Can anyone make a case for why Duffey should be on this team?  I don't even understand the comparisons between Duffey and Pagan.  I have zero problem with Pagan being the 6th inning guy.  He's got stuff....can get a strikeout and (most) of his issues seem to come in 8th or 9th inning high leverage/save situations.  Duffey right now is just praying for something to be hit at someone or the off chance someone will swing at one of his slurves in the dirt.  IMHO he's almost unusable. 

[Dman]

9 hours ago, DocBauer said:

A problem I have with the FO is "fear". Especially in regard to the pen. They aren't afraid to take a chance on someone, but they are equally afraid to let someone go, seemingly "afraid" they might lose out on someone.

What more does Moran have to do to earn an extended shot? How can he get better and grow and prove he belongs other than to stick around?

The Twins are not going to get the Duffey of old magically and are almost certain not to bring him back, unless it's  on a milb deal. And I'm OK walking away from Pagan as well, but at least I can see velocity and a somewhat decent breaking ball and a splitter that is still a work in progress but shows potential. So while I'd run with someone else, at least I can see a reason to stick with him for a little longer.

And I think Duffey is a great guy and teammate and did a great job for a few seasons, but the harsh reality is he's got nothing left but guts and guile and its not working. And you're trying to win now, and next year. Who gives you a better chance to do that? A RP who's toast? Or a young arm with potential who will hopefully get better with time and experience?

I actually kinda like Megill a bit. So they keep him up but send down Moran with as much or more potential? Duffey should have a "tired arm" or SOMETHING, if you want to keep him and SEE. Otherwise, quit being afraid. If somethings not working, then go down a different path.

Totally with you Doc.  I like Duffy as a person and a player and have a ton of respect for the guy, but the harsh reality is a team needs to put their best collection of arms in the pen and I honestly don't think Duffy fits in that group anymore.  MLB is very competitive and you can't afford to drop games because you hope someone might return to form and he has been getting hit hard when he is out there. Especially when there are guys that look as good or better right there behind him.  

Maybe they are keeping him around as a wait and see on a Maeda or Winder return as they see Moran as injury insurance?  Not sure but unless something changes I still see him as the weakest link right now.

[jorgenswest]

I like Pagán over Duffey going forward… this year. I would look for a more reliable option than either in the off-season.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

If it's not Duffey, he must have some compromising pictures of Rocco somewhere.........

EDIT==I now see it's Moran and I don't get it.

Can anyone make a case for why Duffey should be on this team?  I don't even understand the comparisons between Duffey and Pagan.  I have zero problem with Pagan being the 6th inning guy.  He's got stuff....can get a strikeout and (most) of his issues seem to come in 8th or 9th inning high leverage/save situations.  Duffey right now is just praying for something to be hit at someone or the off chance someone will swing at one of his slurves in the dirt.  IMHO he's almost unusable. 

They do need SOME bullpen depth. I'd rather have Moran up, but I understand why they're doing it this way; injuries happen as we should be well aware this year. Most of the other options in St. Paul are not very attractive.

And if you can't figure out why they aren't just callously booting a guy who's been in the organization for 11 years and was good up until last year, I don't know what to tell you.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

They do need SOME bullpen depth. I'd rather have Moran up, but I understand why they're doing it this way; injuries happen as we should be well aware this year. Most of the other options in St. Paul are not very attractive.

And if you can't figure out why they aren't just callously booting a guy who's been in the organization for 11 years and was good up until last year, I don't know what to tell you.

Huh?   Is it callous to send Moran down?  Or how about Sanchez after he won a game or us last week?  Are you seriously implying that the Twins should hang on to Duffey in the middle of a pennant race because he's been around for 11 years?  Ugh....that's the kind of thinking that needs to go.  They're paying him 3.8 million dollars this year....and he's been terrible......and it's not going to suddenly get better.  I wish my employer was that callous.  I guess I don't know what to say....no one has made a case why Duffey is on the team, other than he's a "good guy".  

[wabene]

I think the Twins are definitely impacted by the tenure of the player. I didn't see them just DFAing Sano and I doubt they'll do that with Duffey. I'm trying to think of any tenured veteran they've done that to and coming up empty (I may be totally off-base here). They will just stash Duffey in low leverage situations till the end of the year and say goodbye after the season. Duffey can eat some innings and not hurt the team.