GAME THREAD 6/13/2021: Astros @ Twins, 1:10 CDT

[brycenation]

Roy is just saying words and spinning in a circle.....

[h2oface]

For these pitchers to be on this ball club..... it just tells the rest of the team that the FO just doesn't care. Say what you want about the business etc..... continuing to use Colome, Shoemaker, and Dobnak is just torture for the rest of the team.

[ashbury]

2 minutes ago, h2oface said:

in that sparkling 9th that Baldelli orchestrated)

Not even Squirrel could orchestrate anything better than a dirge, with this roster.

[LVTwinsfan]

Just now, Squirrel said:

okay ... well ... now the other work I've put off, because ugh ... is now looking preferable ... 

I think the Twins would benefit by putting in the work they have put off

[h2oface]

Just now, ashbury said:

Not even Squirrel could orchestrate anything better than a dirge, with this roster.

I guess if you ignore that Rogers only threw 3 pitches and was pulled.......

[LaBombo]

If I ever need to have my love for the game of baseball surgically removed by an announcing team, LaPanta and Smalley are my Mayo Clinic.

[ashbury]

Remember that inning, that one time long ago, I think it was the 3rd, when the Astros didn't score a run?  Second inning maybe, too.  Good times, those were.  Simpler, but better, times.

[LaBombo]

Astros have scored in every inning since the third, which is great work by the Twins.  People love consistency and thoroughness.

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Not even Squirrel could orchestrate anything better than a dirge, with this roster.

Orchestration was actually one of the most fun classes I took ... but I never honed those skills beyond. And I enjoyed my Counterpoint class as well ... writing 2 and 3-part counterpoint ditties for my final ... good times. Now I'm just relegated to bowing, proofreading and repaginating music so it's actually playable

[h2oface]

Sano can even strike out against a pitcher with an 11.57 ERA!

[ashbury]

3 minutes ago, LaBombo said:

Astros have scored in every inning since the third, which is great work by the Twins.  People love consistency and thoroughness.

Usually you ninja me by being first, but this time you've upped your game and made your ninja post after mine.

[Strombomb]

26 minutes ago, ashbury said:

C'mon, somebody hit something to SS.  I want to see Gordon tested there.

I wasn't watching very close. How did he do?

[Rigby]

19 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Then you are really throwing caution to the wind watching this ... take care ... 

Probably preferable to throwing wind without caution....

[h2oface]

2 minutes ago, LaBombo said:

Astros have scored in every inning since the third, which is great work by the Twins.  People love consistency and thoroughness.

And all the starters got a hit, except Bregman and Gurriel, and they even both had SF and drove in a run without a hit. (But RBI are useless these days I hear......)

[LaBombo]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Usually you ninja me by being first, but this time you've upped your game and made your ninja post after me.

[LaBombo]

4 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Sano can even strike out against a pitcher with an 11.57 ERA!

Yup, lots of Twins on fire today...

[ashbury]

3 minutes ago, Strombomb said:

I wasn't watching very close. How did he do?

I think nothing went his way.

/edit - which kind of sums up the Twins game today

[insagt1]

I honestly believe that those 3 pitchers out of the pen today are successfully pitching themselves off this team. All 3 are seriously not worthy of a major league roster spot...even on a team as hapless as the Twins are turning out to be. As we get into the middle of June, what is happening is they tease us with a win twice a week...maybe 3 times for special occasions...but thats about it. The pitching cupboard is bare. Astros are good...but not THAT good.

Batting practice is supposed to take place prior to the game.

[h2oface]

5 minutes ago, insagt1 said:

I honestly believe that those 3 pitchers out of the pen today are successfully pitching themselves off this team. All 3 are seriously not worthy of a major league roster spot...even on a team as hapless as the Twins are turning out to be. As we get into the middle of June, what is happening is they tease us with a win twice a week...maybe 3 times for special occasions...but thats about it. The pitching cupboard is bare. Astros are good...but not THAT good.

Batting practice is supposed to take place prior to the game.

Oh.... thanks for that.... add Happ to the list.... oh to be Happless!

[stringer bell]

48 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

Pineda left with right forearm tightness.

The chances of trading Pineda for something substantial are sinking, sinking sinking.

[insagt1]

2 hours ago, Matthew Lenz said:

It doesn't help that the Twins (like all teams) don't provide a lot of detail when it comes to player injuries. How many times has it seemed to happen that a player is day-to-day for a few days and then next thing you know is out for weeks or months? It's their right to do that (and protect the players deserved privacy) but doesn't help people who think everyone these days is soft, should throw 150 pitches/outing, and make 50 starts every year.

Actually for years pitchers made at least 40 starts; threw 300 innings; completed 15 or 20 games per season and routinely threw more than 100 pitches. And not all of them...in fact probably not very many..ruined their careers doing so. Not saying the players are necessarily 'soft', but it sure is a different game today.....and the basic rules have sort of stayed the same.

I'm not for throwing players under the bus, but they are paid to play a game. And some are paid A LOT to play (or sit) If you are a fan in Boston for example, and you pay ridiculous prices to watch ONE regular season game, I guess you are entitled to see the best available, as often as possible. But thats certainly a subject that is debated long and loud.

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, insagt1 said:

Actually for years pitchers made at least 40 starts; threw 300 innings; completed 15 or 20 games per season and routinely threw more than 100 pitches. And not all of them...in fact probably not very many..ruined their careers doing so. Not saying the players are necessarily 'soft', but it sure is a different game today.....and the basic rules have sort of stayed the same.

It is a different game. The emphasis now is maximum effort on every pitch for 90-100 pitches per start. The oldtimers used to throw maybe 88-90 mph but could do that for 120 pitches and could come back and do the same three days later. Hitters made contact much more, so a well-pitched game might be 90 to 100 pitches. Relievers roles have changed too, of course. The norm is one inning every other day, with an occasional two days in a row. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

57 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Remember that inning, that one time long ago, I think it was the 3rd, when the Astros didn't score a run?  Second inning maybe, too.  Good times, those were.  Simpler, but better, times.

I'll take thr blame for this.

I wondered off sometime in the 4thish inning, i think.

Oh, and where do i get a potty putter?

[sampleSizeOfOne]

58 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

.... Now I'm just relegated to bowing....

Peeked my curiosity... I asume you have no wisdom to share about German bows?

 

[Squirrel]

23 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Peeked my curiosity... I asume you have no wisdom to share about German bows?

 

None ... ask a bassist in the Berlin Philharmonic  

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

 repaginating music so it's actually playable

Do publishers really not know any better? Or do they just not bother? I suppose they figure the librarians do a better job anyway so they don't even try.

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

The chances of trading Pineda for something substantial are sinking, sinking sinking.

That's the first thing I thought of when I heard Cave went on the 60-day. Being traded for a low-level prospect would have been the best way for him to contribute to the success of the organization.

[Matthew Lenz]

3 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Actually for years pitchers made at least 40 starts; threw 300 innings; completed 15 or 20 games per season and routinely threw more than 100 pitches. And not all of them...in fact probably not very many..ruined their careers doing so. Not saying the players are necessarily 'soft', but it sure is a different game today.....and the basic rules have sort of stayed the same.

I'm not for throwing players under the bus, but they are paid to play a game. And some are paid A LOT to play (or sit) If you are a fan in Boston for example, and you pay ridiculous prices to watch ONE regular season game, I guess you are entitled to see the best available, as often as possible. But thats certainly a subject that is debated long and loud.

Fangraphs doesn't go back further than 2007 but in that timeframe the average FB velocity has risen 2.7 mph (from 91.1 to 9.38). I imagine that when pitchers were regularly making 40 starts, throwing 30 innings, completing 15-20 games per season, and routinely threw less than 100 pitches they were also pitching considerably slower than 93 mph.

[ashbury]

11 hours ago, Matthew Lenz said:

I imagine that when pitchers were regularly making 40 starts, throwing 30 innings, completing 15-20 games per season, and routinely threw less than 100 pitches they were also pitching considerably slower than 93 mph.

Since the modern era, 1901 and forward, it's never been the case that "pitchers" in general were regularly making 40 starts.

For periods of years, the major league leader would regularly reach 40.  A few years, there would be more than just one, but never ever as many as there were teams, meaning less than one per team.  So it wasn't part of the job description, it was an achievement.

There was kind of a peak of 40-game starts around 1904-08, another 1914-17, then it picked up again after expansion in 1962 (when the season got a little longer), then quieted down and peaked again around 1973, then basically died out around 1979.  Last 40-game starter was knuckleballer Charlie Hough in 1987, who come to think of it had that in common with other "recent" 40-game-starters Phil Niekro and Wilbur Wood. 

In those 87 years, there were a total of 140 such pitcher-seasons.  One or two a year.  Zero since then of course.

And the individual pitchers weren't doing it for years and years without end.  Only 31 such seasons were logged by pitchers over the age of 30 (despite the myth that that was when a player would enter his prime).  8 by anyone 35 or older.

And the style of pitching was different then.  Sandy Koufax holds the record for season strikeout percentage, 29.5%, among pitchers who started 40 games in a season (and of course Sandy led his entire league in that regard that year, among players who qualified for the ERA title) - for perspective, in 2019 there were 16 ERA qualifiers who had a higher percentage than that.  Most 40-game starters didn't approach Sandy's whiff totals.  And Sandy was finished before his 31st birthday.

The style of pitching today can't support 40 starts and lots of complete games.  Managers would love to have their best pitcher get as many starts as possible.

All these numbers come from use of the Stathead tool at baseball-reference.com, which I hope I did correctly:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SBDaM

[sampleSizeOfOne]

How did 40 game starts become a thing?

 

Is this the team's best pitcher, and they could handle it, so they took the  mound every 4th or 5th day regardless of off days?